23 replies to this topic

[account redo v1]

KFX-G 2 cerPPC 2 ecm

So, ecm reduces sensor range by 30% and nodes by 22.5% each for 45%.
30+30+45%=-105% range. Does that mean that the enemies radar will not be able to detect me in the scoreboards?

Edited by account redo v1, 06 February 2021 - 08:44 AM.

[FupDup]

ECM doesn't stack. The mechlab won't even let you mount 2 if I recall correctly.

As for which is better, I'd still lean towards the Shadow Cat because it can pack a few more DHS in. Both mechs will still run too hot to be truly good, but the Scat is slightly better off.

Of course, like I said in your Viper thread there are better choices like the Huntsman (get one free during the event!), Hunchback IIC, Nova, Vapor Eagle, Summoner, Linebacker, hell even the Adder Prime. If you're strapped for cash use the free Huntsman for your ERPPC shenanigans.

Edited by FupDup, 06 February 2021 - 09:00 AM.

[Wildstreak]

There are things a Shaodwcat does better than 2cERPPCs yet people keep trying and worse missing about 75% of the shots.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Lockheed_, on 06 February 2021 - 09:10 AM, said:

2 ERPPCs on a kit fox is not a good load out. Even the Shadowcat struggles with it. I used to run the Shadowcat a lot, but you are constantly riding the heat scale to the edge.
Use the free huntsman or get a Vaporeagle, that thing can handle 3 ERPPCs

He is better off with some Cer large on KitFox if he wants to do range

Edited by SirSmokes, 06 February 2021 - 01:53 PM.

[RickySpanish]

Light 'Mechs are generally poor PPC platforms because the heat the weapon generates requires more heatsinks than you have room for. You won't be able to fire often enough to deal much damage. Shadowcat is probably your best option, or also as noted - the Vapor Eagle is excellent at it.

Edited by RickySpanish, 06 February 2021 - 03:25 PM.

[Willard Phule]

Cougar does it better.

[FupDup]

RickySpanish, on 06 February 2021 - 03:24 PM, said:

Light 'Mechs are generally poor PPC platforms because the heat the weapon generates requires more heatsinks than you have room for. You won't be able to fire often enough to deal much damage. Shadowcat is probably your best option, or also as noted - the Vapor Eagle is excellent at it.

One of the few viable choices for light PPC carriers is the Adder Prime. Yeah the arms aren't mounted too high, but the quirks at least give you sustained fire comparable to the larger Clan mediums.

Willard Phule, on 06 February 2021 - 03:32 PM, said:

Cougar does it better.

One of the few cases where those words actually apply.

[RickySpanish]

FupDup, on 06 February 2021 - 03:37 PM, said:

One of the few viable choices for light PPC carriers is the Adder Prime. Yeah the arms aren't mounted too high, but the quirks at least give you sustained fire comparable to the larger Clan mediums.


One of the few cases where those words actually apply.

Good point, I always forget the Adder!

[SmokeGuar]

Kit Fox used to be decent with 2 ERPPCs and then nerf hammer struck. It just became way too hot to use. Same problem plagues most Clan lights and meds, excluding Adder.

[FupDup]

SmokeGuar, on 06 February 2021 - 04:44 PM, said:

Kit Fox used to be decent with 2 ERPPCs and then nerf hammer struck. It just became way too hot to use. Same problem plagues most Clan lights and meds, excluding Adder.

Hasn't the Clan ERPPC heat been fairly consistent over the years? The only nerfs to it I remember is getting a slower reload time and also a velocity nerf waaaaaay back (which has been undone).

If anything the new skill tree lets you make it sustain a bit better because you can stack heat gen, cool run, and heat containment at the same time, as well as DHS dissipating more than they used to and external DHS being equal to engine DHS.

Edited by FupDup, 06 February 2021 - 05:17 PM.

[Heavy Money]

Any double ERPPC light or medium has a high chance of just not contributing enough damage to the game to be useful, unless you're really good (in before a few people say they do great at it. These builds are common and commonly deal poor damage and don't armor share. Even when they wrack up a bunch of damage, often its after the point that the game is lost.)

Triple PPC on a Vapor Eagle or heavy is where its at, or just run something else unless you've got ~75%+ accuracy against the same component.

[RickySpanish]

Heavy Money, on 06 February 2021 - 05:04 PM, said:

Any double ERPPC light or medium has a high chance of just not contributing enough damage to the game to be useful, unless you're really good (in before a few people say they do great at it. These builds are common and commonly deal poor damage and don't armor share. Even when they wrack up a bunch of damage, often its after the point that the game is lost.)

Triple PPC on a Vapor Eagle or heavy is where its at, or just run something else unless you've got ~75%+ accuracy against the same component.

Yeah it's rather important to distinguish performance when the game was still winnable vs after the point of no return. I've had games in a PPC poptart dealing 800+ damage and still lost handily because half that damage was done much too late across many different components and 'Mechs.

[Heavy Money]

RickySpanish, on 06 February 2021 - 05:33 PM, said:

Yeah it's rather important to distinguish performance when the game was still winnable vs after the point of no return. I've had games in a PPC poptart dealing 800+ damage and still lost handily because half that damage was done much too late across many different components and 'Mechs.

Yup. This can happen with any mech to some extent, and we're probably all familiar with LRM boats that splash a lot of people and score a bunch of dmg while not contributing much to actually completing a kill.

My experience of PPC poptart lights and mediums is seeing them do 200-300dmg and 0-1 kills. Or occasionally, a match that has most of my team dead a few minutes in, then another few minutes pass while the enemy hunts down a single remaining ppc poptart mech who is running around the back of the map and takes a long time to corner and kill, all the while splashing out damage that can't save us. I've only seen someone clutch out a victory like this once, and that was an already very close match that we'd just have won in the first place if they'd had a different loadout and been up front with the team.

And my experience of fighting them is that you can usually ignore them while killing the enemy team (maybe chasing them off with a bit of suppressive fire) and then finish them later. Even in an ideal situation where they can just stand in an optimal spot and fire the whole match without retaliation, they have such bad heat issues that their full damage potential won't necessarily be relevant to the outcome of the match unless they can keep it on target on the same body part the whole time. And even someone with good aim will have trouble doing that if the target twists or breaks line of sign occasionally.

Edited by Heavy Money, 06 February 2021 - 05:52 PM.

[LordNothing]

i used to have this stupid gauss and ppc adder build. you have to strip most of the armor to make it work. never overheats but the gauss is ammo starved and of course they nerfed ppc+gauss.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 February 2021 - 06:19 PM.

[LordNothing]

IFR-P

if you want a fast dual cerppc. its faster than most clan lights. no jump jet options or extra sinks (though you do get 12) and you have to strip some armor. unfortunately not enough tonnage to populate the ecm slot, unless you are crazy. also the prime has a 10% cerppc range quirk. the ice ferret also tends to be ignored because no-one takes it seriously.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 February 2021 - 06:48 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

LordNothing, on 06 February 2021 - 06:28 PM, said:

IFR-P

if you want a fast dual cerppc. its faster than most clan lights. no jump jet options or extra sinks (though you do get 12) and you have to strip some armor. unfortunately not enough tonnage to populate the ecm slot, unless you are crazy. also the prime has a 10% cerppc range quirk. the ice ferret also tends to be ignored because no-one takes it seriously.

It has the speed to make that work. Not taking it seriously is a mistake. It as limited loads out that work because tonnage of the engine. Pop 4 heavy med and ECM SRM 6 on it and you are very dangerous

Edited by SirSmokes, 07 February 2021 - 12:26 AM.

[account redo v1]

I actually meant this mainly as a joke...

I already have a vapor eagle with 3 erppc. I just prefer my viper. Is it effective? Don't know. However, it is nice to be able to go where I want and quickly. Just something about being able to jump that high and still use 2 cerppcs in combination with 129kph.

[FupDup]

account redo v1, on 07 February 2021 - 06:27 AM, said:

I actually meant this mainly as a joke...

I already have a vapor eagle with 3 erppc. I just prefer my viper. Is it effective? Don't know. However, it is nice to be able to go where I want and quickly. Just something about being able to jump that high and still use 2 cerppcs in combination with 129kph.

If you want more speed you can just drop the Veagle down to 2 ERPPCs and mount a huge engine.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

there is this one guy.. fox with a shotgun or something, he runs dual ppcs on a kitfox often and pulls really good numbers on it too.

[LordNothing]

i do have a kit with an lb10 and some srm2s, its a bit ammo starved but its pretty deadly when it still has ammo and quite fun. its good for two kills though which isnt bad for a light. but i dont think i ever ran ppcs on one.