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Intel Gathering: Map Spawn Points


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#21 uwuziel

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 12:16 AM

Im sure it would be tought finding a balance between giving flanking mechs an oppourtunity to flank, and front line mechs and oppourtunity to tank. It sucks for every when a beefy brawly atlas gets spawned all the way in the back and off to the side with the lights, in front of other light spawns or out in the open. At the same time though, you dont want to squish the dynamic down to the point where its "run to the middle and run in circles."

Summary at the end:
Since 6v6s are returning, I would feel it would be interesting to have Alpha and Beta spawns moved closer to the center, while Charlie can spawn off to either side. Going back to how it was a year or two ago, spawns will be determing via the weight of the mech. Assaults and heavies go in Alpha/Beta, and lights and mediums go in Charlie. You could even go as far as to detect loadouts, where if a mech is carrying LRMs or RACs they can go in Beta, the support branch. Where as they have lots of lasers or SRMs they can go in Alpha, the frontline branch.

This type of system, with some tinkering and testing, should give everyone the opppurtunity to start the match where the need to be. Assaults are in the front of their team ready to tank, LRMs and Gauss right behind them ready to support. Lights are off the the side ready to scout and flank. If a light wants to support they have enough speed to catch up with the Alpha and Beta branch, and if an assault wants to hang back they do just that. Taking it easy and letting the others push up first.

This would also split things up, so for a short time teams might be in a 8v8 scenario, or at least something smaller than a 12v12. If Charlie lance wanted to come in and support the main push, they would have to sacrifice the initial flank and perhaps any intel with it. This could potentially create scenarios where there are big brawls for objectives, rather than lights getting to the center objective poking around waiting for their team.

I can't give any advice off the top of my head for anything specific, as for something like this to work would require, again, tinkering and testing. Seeing what metas people find and balancing things out, along with map changes if one side seems forever doomed. I see people kamikaze just because they got "the bad side" of the map and I honestly don't blame them. The important part is making sure both sides have an equal chance.

TLDR;
Alpha and Beta lances should be reserved for heavier chassis. Alpha is frontline, with Beta right behind them. Charlie is reserved for lighter chassis, and spawn off to the side where if they want to meet up with the main force they need to sacrifice their flank route.

#22 Cichol Balor

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 12:25 AM

TORMALINE


Also stop spawning the heaviest mech in the alpha lance with groups. It has to be the worst feeling imaginable when you are dropped on maps like tourmaline or HPG with a group of 3 lights in an annihilator.

#23 ImperialKnight

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 01:44 AM

just spawn all 12 mechs together regardless of map or mode. stop trying to make separate engagements happen.

#24 MarsThunder

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 02:07 AM

Before to fix the problem let us to remember when the problem had first appeared?
It had appeared when PGI changed Alpha Lance to be including heavy mechs. But WHY was it done?

#25 MarsThunder

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 02:25 AM

View PostJettrik Ryflix, on 18 February 2021 - 07:20 PM, said:

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I wonder if it's possible to have multiple different spawn patterns for every map?

I would like to enhance this suggestion a bit: give the means to select the drop locations (from several possible choices) to the team commander. This will require to rework the drop preparation screen (where the button "ready" resides).

#26 KW Driver

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 03:04 AM

View PostCichol Balor, on 19 February 2021 - 12:25 AM, said:

TORMALINE


Also stop spawning the heaviest mech in the alpha lance with groups. It has to be the worst feeling imaginable when you are dropped on maps like tourmaline or HPG with a group of 3 lights in an annihilator.


especially when you get dropped into that one spawn point out in the open with absolutely no cover... then a light spots you and every missile boat on the other team has a field day.

#27 Wormflush

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 03:31 AM

I encounter a problem in almost all Quickplay matches: When being dropped, all mechs face to a direction that is the direct opposite of the direction you will want to go to.

So the second action (after pressing "Override" (-> can't this be made default via configuration?)) is that all mechs turn around and increase speed. AND: bumping into each other.

If the initial heading would be better in respect to the question "do I need to turn immediately?", light mechs would enter battle without having lost already 5-10 % of their leg armor.

I'd like a setting where every lance is layed out in a way that when simply pressing forward, the direction is not awkward and no collision will occur.

An additional request would be to place the mechs +50 m afar from each other, so that collisions are even more unlikely to occur.

You might argue that this is due to all mechs being dropped from adjacent mechbays, but I'd counter: it is stated that all mechs use some sort of drop jumpjets to guarantee a soft landing (even if they're not fitted with regular jumpjets). I can see no reason why these don't allow slight adjustments while traveling to ground. And even if it's unrealistic (lore-wise), it would (at least for me) provide a better gameplay.

#28 KW Driver

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 03:41 AM

View PostWormflush, on 19 February 2021 - 03:31 AM, said:

I encounter a problem in almost all Quickplay matches: When being dropped, all mechs face to a direction that is the direct opposite of the direction you will want to go to.

So the second action (after pressing "Override" (-> can't this be made default via configuration?)) is that all mechs turn around and increase speed. AND: bumping into each other.

If the initial heading would be better in respect to the question "do I need to turn immediately?", light mechs would enter battle without having lost already 5-10 % of their leg armor.

I'd like a setting where every lance is layed out in a way that when simply pressing forward, the direction is not awkward and no collision will occur.

An additional request would be to place the mechs +50 m afar from each other, so that collisions are even more unlikely to occur.

You might argue that this is due to all mechs being dropped from adjacent mechbays, but I'd counter: it is stated that all mechs use some sort of drop jumpjets to guarantee a soft landing (even if they're not fitted with regular jumpjets). I can see no reason why these don't allow slight adjustments while traveling to ground. And even if it's unrealistic (lore-wise), it would (at least for me) provide a better gameplay.


or even just spread out the drop pattern by a few more meters.. the problem is more that the mechs get dropped so close together that any non synchronized movements result in a collision... If the mechs are spread apart more, then the probability of that collision will go down.

#29 Scout Derek

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 04:37 AM

4 simple steps in making conquest tourmaline 100x better spawn wise:

Posted Image

shift alpha into bravo, bravo into charlie, and charlie spawn into the new spawn now located in g6. And if there's issue with cap placement being biased in team 1 favor, shift it slightly towards team 2.

bam, simple fix. basically same thing with domination, minus the fact that charlie lance is already in the spot it's meant to be.

Not sure how hard it is to do that fix, but it'll absolutely flatten out the stupid nascar rushes that occur for alpha lance on team 2 everytime a match happens.

#30 Sasuga

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 05:26 AM

I know on one side of T. Desert, the Assaults start in a spot they can not walk forward, and so are traffic jammed. They're already slow mechs, and to make it worse, they're stuck surrounded by each other, and unable to walk forward.

#31 Sasuga

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 05:40 AM

I would like to spawn on new maps.

#32 RickySpanish

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 07:00 AM

We should join a pregame lobby where we can reorganize lances, pick 'Mechs and spawn locations, discuss tactics and place commander markers on the map in advance of the drop.

#33 F4CTOR

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 07:50 AM

PLEASE change the ocean spawn in New Forest Colony. Landing there in a 100 tonner and being late to the fight despite going full throttle in a straight line is abysmal.

#34 IanDresarie

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 07:58 AM

@Dearon: I would very much be interested to know why the decision was made to separate lances out.
I assume there's a good reason, but off the top of my head I can't come up with one that's convincing enough to warrant all the effort necessary to balance individual spawn points, hence I'd also go with a single drop point for all 'Mechs.

#35 Vidarion

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 08:11 AM

As a couple of people already said, simply drop the whole team together. You don't even need to change spawn points, simply pre-select Alpha, Bravo, or Charlie and drop both teams at their respective spawn. And yes....I mean that if Alpha is selected, both teams are dropped at their Alpha spawn. Do not select differently for each team.

#36 Hawk819

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 08:23 AM

View PostBuckleUp, on 18 February 2021 - 06:58 PM, said:

Posted a rant on this in the MWO 2021 Maps thread earlier today. As Voice of Kerensky pointed out, virtually all the problems with spawn points revolve around slow assault mechs being dropped far away from the rest of the team. If we want to design new spawn points, we'll need to know which lance the assault mechs are going to be in. Right now assaults could end up in any lance, sometimes frustratingly so (see my rant in other thread). So, unless we know ahead of time that assaults will be in a specific lance, the only way to really make sure they don't get dropped far away from everyone else is to drop all three lances together as Krasnopesky suggested.



um, there's no way to tell where the assault will end up before the battle (other than seeing the icons when landing). So I ask, how will the developers honor this request?

As for my take on this. There's only one map, and one only, that gets my irk, and that's Forge. Each time, regardless of where I land, the spawns are terrible. Reason: 1) their height; 2) way too steep. To the point on both, a player has to use JJ's to just get down from there, and most Assaults, don't have JJ equipped.

So please fix these spawn points. Make them not so steep and hard to get out of.

#37 MechaGnome

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 08:35 AM

Sorry if this is vague..

But Frozen city (one of them) has a drop point for assualts that literally puts them in the path of the enemy team and the main path leads them to instant death... every single time..

View PostGiraffe Beta, on 18 February 2021 - 11:27 PM, said:

Frozen City Charlie lance in the trench. They come up to the city and instantly get wrecked if theyre assaults (depending on the enemy spawn).

^This

Forest Colony Please stop dropping the assaults out in the ocean miles from the rest of the team (usually with light mechs)..

A drop in Tourmaline Assault lance nearly always gets them destroyed.. trying to get to their team mates.

Canyon Network drops Assaults in to the valleys and it takes half the match to get to the battle as there is no way up. Not drop points but related, please fix the trenches in Hibernal and Canyon Network mechs just cannot get up the slopes..

Why must you drop the mechs backwards near the edge of the map in Solaris, Polar and Terra..

Lastly i'd like to echo others and say please drop all three lances together.

Edited by Samial, 19 February 2021 - 08:47 AM.


#38 Kurt the Merc

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 09:08 AM

I agree with most of the ideas put forward here. My question is if we could get the objective points moved. In particular Domination. If the circle could be spawned in a variety of locations around the map it would make the whole experience more dynamic.

#39 Saved By The Bell

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 09:31 AM

how about to change domination points every time.

#40 Tesunie

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Posted 19 February 2021 - 09:31 AM

All I can comment on here is that, if possible, the lance that "typically" carries the assaults should be the center most drop point, not on a side edge. I've seen maps where all the assaults on a team dropped on the left side, and the whole team went right and abandoned them to themselves as the whole enemy team also pushed to their right, leaving a team typically with 4 mechs down, most of them the assaults.

Beyond that, a lot of suggestions of just moving spawns closer together is accurate... I don't think I have anything else specific to add to this at the moment.





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