18 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Well, sorta new. We're getting two variants of existing chassis.

https://mwomercs.com/stryker

Thunderbolt TDR 10-SE: 2E in right arm, ECM in CT, 3E + 1M in LT. Has MASC and 4 JJs. No new hardpoints but we get ECM and MASC on the Thud.

Dragon DRG-1G (Grand Dragon): 1E per arm and per ST, 2M in CT. Overall this variant looks to be weak because it's just a gimped Flame that doesn't have a ballistic in the LT. An easy fix would be to eliminate a CT missile for an extra right arm energy, or ideally even just give us 3 energy in the right arm (the chassis can already hold 3 ballistics there on one variant so a lot of the geometry is already done).

Edited by FupDup, 19 February 2021 - 06:58 PM.

[Heavy Money]

Very excited about the Thunderbolt. JJ, ECM, and MASC sounds fun.

The effectiveness of both is going to come down to their quirks. Both these chassis's other variants are all heavily quirked.

It would be great if PGI would preview their quirks for feedback while we wait for the release.

[LordNothing]

"new" robbits. meh. its nice that they are doing new variants, but im not going to pay mech pack prices for variants.

[Dogstar]

That's weird, on paper the TDR looks top notch - ECM and JJ on a heavy with energy slots? Yes please!
Whereas the DRG looks decidedly lacklustre

Is there something I'm missing?

did they accidentally put the MASC on the TDR and not the DRG?

Edited by Dogstar, 20 February 2021 - 02:26 AM.

[FLG 01]

Good idea (new variants in a nice package), mediocre execution (price, questionable variants).

Dogstar, on 20 February 2021 - 02:24 AM, said:

Whereas the DRG looks decidedly lacklustre

Is there something I'm missing?

did they accidentally put the MASC on the TDR and not the DRG?

That would have beeen the DRG-7K.

And, no, you are not missing anything. Quirks can obviously save the DRG-1G, make it great even, but the currently available data points to a rather lackluster performance.

[InvictusLee]

FupDup, on 19 February 2021 - 06:58 PM, said:

Well, sorta new. We're getting two variants of existing chassis.

https://mwomercs.com/stryker

Thunderbolt TDR 10-SE: 2E in right arm, ECM in CT, 3E + 1M in LT. Has MASC and 4 JJs. No new hardpoints but we get ECM and MASC on the Thud.

Dragon DRG-1G (Grand Dragon): 1E per arm and per ST, 2M in CT. Overall this variant looks to be weak because it's just a gimped Flame that doesn't have a ballistic in the LT. An easy fix would be to eliminate a CT missile for an extra right arm energy, or ideally even just give us 3 energy in the right arm (the chassis can already hold 3 ballistics there on one variant so a lot of the geometry is already done).

are those the official hard points tho?
Im not sure how i feel about this mechpack. Its basically, from the looks of it, a couple of gimpy mechs. I mean if they want my money they gotta give me stuff with wild hardpoints like the pirannah or have a novel use like the spiritbear or the madcat2's.

[PocketYoda]

I really like the variants idea i'm just not sure about these two.. Dragons are crazy easy to get killed.. And thunderbolts while a nice mech scream shoot me in my core..

$20 seems fair though with all the extras.

Still waiting on the new Steam packs please.

November11th, on 20 February 2021 - 03:49 AM, said:

are those the official hard points tho?
Im not sure how i feel about this mechpack. Its basically, from the looks of it, a couple of gimpy mechs. I mean if they want my money they gotta give me stuff with wild hardpoints like the pirannah or have a novel use like the spiritbear or the madcat2's.

I'm assuming the next pack will be clan, thats kinda how they work.

https://www.sarna.ne...ki/Grand_Dragon DRG-1G Arguably the original Grand Dragon produced in 3024, this 'Mech is little more than a variant of the Dragon. The 'Mech is armed with a PPC, LRM-10 launcher, and a trio of medium lasers split between the left arm, right torso and rear left torso. It is also only capable of achieving a top speed of 86.4 km/h, as it employs a standard fusion engine due to the technical imitations of the Third Succession War. BV (1.0) = 997^[2], BV (2.0) = 1,300


https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunderbolt TDR-10SE Introduced in 3067, the 10SE is built around new technologies. The 'Mech has an Endo Steel chassis and is armored with twelve and a half tons of armor. The use of MASC gives it superior maneuverability capable of bursts of speed up to 86.4 kph and four jump jets gives it a jumping capability of one hundred twenty meters. Finally, the 'Mech's arsenal includes an ER PPC and three ER medium lasers which are linked to a Targeting Computer and an LRM-10 launcher. The 'Mech uses a Guardian ECM suite to help defend against advanced enemy targeting and communications systems. BV (1.0) = 1,630, BV (2.0) = 2,008

Seems it maybe official.

Edited by Samial, 20 February 2021 - 04:42 AM.

[crazytimes]

Hey at least it is some kind of new content. I don't see any particularly unique options, but content is content, and it's a much better direction than them just making new threads for people to discuss stuff that will be completely ignored.

[Bigbacon]

got excited for a new dragon until I looked at the specs. Its pretty much a flame with an extra missile slot and no ballistic.

[FupDup]

I'm gonna try to predict the quirks of these gundams. The Dragon will be easier since it won't have ECM or MASC to subtract from its power budget.

All Dragon variants have identical armor and structure quirks, so the Grand Dragon should be no different:
CT: +16 armor, +10 structure
LA: +10 armor
LT: +16 armor
RA: +20 armor, +10 structure
RT: +16 armor
LL: +14 structure
RL: +14 structure

The weapon quirks are a bit less straightforward, so let's list all of the current variants to establish a baseline.

DRG-1C: Ballistic cooldown -15%, Energy cooldown -10%, Missile cooldown -15%

DRG-1N: AC/5 cooldown -10%, Ballistic cooldown -15%, Energy cooldown -10%, Energy range +10%, Missile cooldown -15%

DRG-5N: Ballistic cooldown -10%, Ballistic range +15%, Ballistic velocity +15%, Energy cooldown -15%, Laser duration -15%, UAC Jam chance -40%, UAC/5 cooldown -15%

DRG-FANG: AC/10 cooldown -10%, Ballistic cooldown -10%, Ballistic velocity +10%, Energy cooldown -15%, Energy heat -15%, Laser duration -10%

DRG-FLAME: Ballistic cooldown -10%, Ballistic velocity +10%, Energy heat -10%


Okay, so the first observation to make here is that the Flame and 1C have the lowest overall quirks. They will be the baseline for my most pessimistic estimate. The other variants have much better quirks, with the 5N having the most. They will be the baseline for the most optimistic estimate.

Pessimistic Estimate:
Same durability as other variants, -10% Energy heat, -15% Energy cooldown, +20% PPC velocity (all types), -15% Missile cooldown

Optimistic Estimate:
Same durability as other variants, -15% Energy heat, -15% Energy cooldown, -15% Laser duration, +20% PPC velocity (all types), -15% Missile cooldown, +10% Energy range

What I actually want:
This is a mech that would, for once, actually benefit from a big energy cooldown quirk because of having so few energy hardpoints on a 60-ton mech. Crank it up to 20% or 25%. Perhaps change energy heat reduction to 20%. Otherwise the other stats from the Optimistic Estimate would be okay. Not great, but playable. I still want more energy hardpoints.

Edited by FupDup, 20 February 2021 - 09:07 AM.

[FupDup]

Okay, now for the Thunderbolt. This one will be a little harder because its quirks are less consistent, as well as having to account for PGI nerfing the quirks thanks to ECM and MASC.

For durability, all C-Bill variants have a measly +10 structure on the LT and RT. The Top Dog hero has a lot more, but I don't think they'll be generous enough to give that kind of durability to an ECM/MASC variant. I will go off of the C-bill variants for now.

Let's now loook at weapon quirks. The Top Dog will be excluded because it has much greater durability than the other variants and correspondingly lower weapon quirks.

TDR-5S: Energy cooldown -10%, Energy heat -5%, Energy range +10%, Large Laser cooldown -10%, Laser duration -5%, Missile cooldown -10%

TDR-5SS: Energy cooldown -10%, Energy heat -5%, Energy range +10%, Medium Pulse Laser Range +5%, Missile cooldown -15%

TDR-9S: Energy cooldown -10%, Energy heat -5%, ERPPC cooldown -5%, ERPPC heat -5%, ERPPC velocity +10%, Laser duration -5%, Missile cooldown -10%

TDR-9SE: Energy cooldown -10%, Energy heat -5%, Energy range +5%, Large Pulse Laser heat -5%, Missile cooldown -10%


Surprisingly they look very similar across all C-Bill variants. Energy cooldown and heat are always the same, and Missile cooldown is always at least 10%. However, PGI has a habit of nerfing quirks on IS mechs that can equip special items like MASC, ECM, and sometimes JJs. This Thunderbolt has all three at the same time so if it follows precedent then it could get smacked pretty hard by the nerf bat. My pessimistic and optimistic estimates will probably be more subject to being wrong than my Dragon estimates because of this.

Pessimistic Estimate:
+10 structure for LT and RT, Energy cooldown -10%, Energy heat -5%, Missile cooldown -10%

Optimistic Estimate:
+10% structure for LT and RT, Energy cooldown -10%, Energy heat -5%, Missile cooldown -15%, ERPPC heat -5%, Energy range +5%

I think the main takeaway here is that the Thunderbolt's quirks absolutely suck. Hard. Incredibly, unfathomably hard. Even the most Optimistic Estimate leaves us in a bad spot.

All C-Bill Thuds need a complete quirk rework to not be crap. Ideally they would be a bit more agility and lot more durability, making them tanky brawlers. If not then at least let them hit hard. Right now the C-Bill Thuds are just clumsy and clunky bricks that don't really impose much threat.


After doing these analyses I'm more optimistic about the Dragon than the Thunderbolt, honestly. I forgot just how bad the Thunderbolt's quirks are.

Edited by FupDup, 20 February 2021 - 09:33 AM.

[FupDup]

As for builds, the Thunderbolt can really only do MRM40 + lasers.

TDR-10SE
Maybe you can try to fit Stealth Armor on, but be prepared to make sacrifices.


For the Dragon, here are my attempts to cobble something together:

DRG-1G
HPPC poker with some minor backup MPLs.

DRG-1G
Otherwise you might try something like 2 PPCs with 2 LLs, maybe Snubs with Large Pulses, I dunno? 4 hardpoints is just not enough.

Edited by FupDup, 20 February 2021 - 09:55 AM.

[Novakaine]

Gimme my Crusader!!

[FupDup]

Novakaine, on 20 February 2021 - 10:17 AM, said:

Gimme my Crusader!!

Keep your bad robot out of my thread about two specific bad robots.

[The pessimistic optimist]

FupDup, on 20 February 2021 - 09:51 AM, said:

As for builds, the Thunderbolt can really only do MRM40 + lasers.

You can do other things but they don't perform as well as that build

[PocketYoda]

Maybe this if its mobile
DRG-1G

Large Osiris?
TDR-10SE

Edited by Samial, 20 February 2021 - 06:42 PM.

[JediPanther]

I'd rather buy a map pack of twelve new maps that are not designed around a "central feature" or specific location.

[Dozer6]

JediPanther, on 21 February 2021 - 06:49 AM, said:

I'd rather buy a map pack of twelve new maps that are not designed around a "central feature" or specific location.

Seconded.

[Escef]

Novakaine, on 20 February 2021 - 10:17 AM, said:

Gimme my Crusader!!

https://mwo.smurfy-n...482549ff6cc1a8b