58 replies to this topic

[General Solo]

Nuthing a functional match maker would not fix
Sounds like the op is playing against players higher than their skill grade.
Of course PGI nerfs stuff rather than fix match maker, same old.

[feeWAIVER]

I think arty/airstrikes should be limited to only lights and some mediums.
It makes more thematic sense for a Commando to call in an air strike than an Atlas.

Limiting the amount of mechs that can even carry the strikes would also allow us to move away from the 'consumable' nature and move it more of a 'cooldown' ability.

Also, I believe in lore Clan doesn't use air strikes or artillery. So removing it from the clan side could help balance toward equal weight limits in faction play.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 22 March 2021 - 02:05 PM.

[PocketYoda]

SirSmokes, on 24 February 2021 - 01:00 PM, said:

Its so silly to hate on LRMs they are so easy to beat

1vs1 yes 4-6vs1 no.

[feeWAIVER]

Samial, on 22 March 2021 - 10:57 PM, said:

1vs1 yes 4-6vs1 no.

What weapon system is easy to beat 6v1?
It's easier to dodge a long range missile than a pulse laser.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 22 March 2021 - 11:00 PM.

[Saved By The Bell]

I used 2 upgraded art strikes yesterday. Its all got on my team (they were on the 2nd floor). I did around 500 damage on my comrades. Was bunned more then 10 min after the match.

And we won somehow.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Saved By The Bell, on 23 March 2021 - 01:59 AM, said:

I used 2 upgraded art strikes yesterday. Its all got on my team (they were on the 2nd floor). I did around 500 damage on my comrades. Was bunned more then 10 min after the match.

And we won somehow.

come on, you can do better..

I fondly remember a game where a teammate (not me, though I envy his skill) did 400 with ONE arty. and it was a 4v4 scouting, non the less.

[GARION26]

The default way to win in this game is the good old tight grouped murder ball - if you could encourage everyone to sit on a strong defensive position even better. It's easier to concentrate fire, easier to share armor and easy to protect your backs The first thing you learn as a new player is "stay with the group!" That's not the most fun way to win necessarily or the one that encourages tactical play. Even 3-4 mechs in a high position with limited approaches and good fields of fire and the right weapon ranges is tough for a lot of PUG games to address.

Arty makes staying in a tight packed group possibly on a difficult to attack defensive position less of an consistently winning strategy. It makes folks move off a point, or punishes them from staying put. Without it we'd have a lot more static game. Slow big mechs would be favored.

I'm not saying the balance of pros and cons is definitively in favor of artillery - but recognize why artillery is in the game.

[Dozer6]

GARION26, on 23 March 2021 - 04:46 AM, said:

The default way to win in this game is the good old tight grouped murder ball - if you could encourage everyone to sit on a strong defensive position even better. It's easier to concentrate fire, easier to share armor and easy to protect your backs The first thing you learn as a new player is "stay with the group!" That's not the most fun way to win necessarily or the one that encourages tactical play. Even 3-4 mechs in a high position with limited approaches and good fields of fire and the right weapon ranges is tough for a lot of PUG games to address.

Arty makes staying in a tight packed group possibly on a difficult to attack defensive position less of an consistently winning strategy. It makes folks move off a point, or punishes them from staying put. Without it we'd have a lot more static game. Slow big mechs would be favored.

I'm not saying the balance of pros and cons is definitively in favor of artillery - but recognize why artillery is in the game.

Absolutely this.
Imagine the scout mechs actually scouting, and the long range weapons take advantage of the scouting?
Huh.

Lrm's and Artillery are just fine and working as intended.

All the yolo sweatlords have to realize this is a mil sim combat game and ALL weapons are viable options.
Not everybody wants to nor has to play the wannabe pro player style of game.

Please do not turn this into C.O.D.

[feeWAIVER]

Dozer6, on 23 March 2021 - 06:39 AM, said:

Absolutely this.
Imagine the scout mechs actually scouting, and the long range weapons take advantage of the scouting?
Huh.

Lrm's and Artillery are just fine and working as intended.

All the yolo sweatlords have to realize this is a mil sim combat game and ALL weapons are viable options.
Not everybody wants to nor has to play the wannabe pro player style of game.

Please do not turn this into C.O.D.

If this is a military sim game, let's bring back Rearm and Repair and make people pay for the missiles they shoot.

Edit- I'm not joking. I think repair/rearm would be good for the game.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 23 March 2021 - 07:39 AM.

[The Mysterious Fox]

we already live in a post nerf artillery/airstrike world. it used to be spammed even faster and hit harder as well. personally i only want damage to come from mechs and im fine taking them out altogether

[feeWAIVER]

The Mysterious Fox, on 23 March 2021 - 10:40 AM, said:

we already live in a post nerf artillery/airstrike world. it used to be spammed even faster and hit harder as well. personally i only want damage to come from mechs and im fine taking them out altogether

I don't believe in removing resources from the game entirely.
When someone drops an airstrike, and you see a that jet flying across the sky, that adds something to the game.

Instead of removing airstrikes and artillery altogether, they should (like jumpjets) limit the number of mechs that can use them.
Like I said previously, it makes more sense for a Light or Medium to call in an airstrike than a Heavy or Assault.
And I don't believe the Clan uses arty and airstrikes in lore.

[Dozer6]

feeWAIVER, on 23 March 2021 - 11:58 AM, said:

I don't believe in removing resources from the game entirely.
When someone drops an airstrike, and you see a that jet flying across the sky, that adds something to the game.

Instead of removing airstrikes and artillery altogether, they should (like jumpjets) limit the number of mechs that can use them.
Like I said previously, it makes more sense for a Light or Medium to call in an airstrike than a Heavy or Assault.
And I don't believe the Clan uses arty and airstrikes in lore.

Absolutely agree 100% mate.

The Mysterious Fox, on 23 March 2021 - 10:40 AM, said:

we already live in a post nerf artillery/airstrike world. it used to be spammed even faster and hit harder as well. personally i only want damage to come from mechs and im fine taking them out altogether

Show me where the artillery strike touched you while you were nascaring...

[Haipyng]

LRMs are easily defeated. The aim mechanic, is way long. Terrain is your friend. I get plenty of matches that the AMS is so thick that 3 ATM 12 batteries fired simultaneously won't land a hit at 350 meters.

Arty and Air Strikes are an annoyance. People will target a building on the other side of a hill and spam it with those weapons. You learn to position yourself elsewhere. I wouldn't be sad to see them go. They are really just something for people to spend cbills or MC on. I think they would find some sort of repair/replenish mechanic instead of Arty/Air Strike would be more popular.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Dozer6, on 23 March 2021 - 06:39 AM, said:

Absolutely this.
Imagine the scout mechs actually scouting, and the long range weapons take advantage of the scouting?
Huh.

Lrm's and Artillery are just fine and working as intended.

All the yolo sweatlords have to realize this is a mil sim combat game and ALL weapons are viable options.
Not everybody wants to nor has to play the wannabe pro player style of game.

Please do not turn this into C.O.D.

LMAO, no iteration of BattleTech has ever been milsim. Not even tabletop. It's an 80s-themed Real Robot game with only faint connections to reality. Have you forgotten that the Unseen were a thing specifically because a good chunk of early designs were lifted straight from mecha anime? 'Mechs themselves are massive walking square-cube law violations that magically beat conventional arms while the rest of the canonical armory is sci-fi weapons strapped to Cold War battlefield paradigms.

The MechWarrior series goes even farther away from milsim than the rest of the canon thanks to the increased focus on 'mechs above all else. Ground vics, gyros, and ASFs all become secondary-priority target practice. Living Legends is the only MechWarrior game that tried to give a fair shake to combined-arms combat fully in player hands. MWO is a literal TDM arena shooter with wholly unrealistic giant robots and zero presence of anything else from infantry all the way up to WarShips.

[Meep Meep]

Alexander of Macedon, on 25 March 2021 - 04:26 PM, said:

LMAO, no iteration of BattleTech has ever been milsim. Not even tabletop. It's an 80s-themed Real Robot game with only faint connections to reality. Have you forgotten that the Unseen were a thing specifically because a good chunk of early designs were lifted straight from mecha anime? 'Mechs themselves are massive walking square-cube law violations that magically beat conventional arms while the rest of the canonical armory is sci-fi weapons strapped to Cold War battlefield paradigms.

The MechWarrior series goes even farther away from milsim than the rest of the canon thanks to the increased focus on 'mechs above all else. Ground vics, gyros, and ASFs all become secondary-priority target practice. Living Legends is the only MechWarrior game that tried to give a fair shake to combined-arms combat fully in player hands. MWO is a literal TDM arena shooter with wholly unrealistic giant robots and zero presence of anything else from infantry all the way up to WarShips.

Heh yep. Any modern military would wipe the floor with battletech units. There would be some fairly stiff fights in the air for control of that but once sky dominance has been established the big ole mechs would be pounded into dirt. In many ways battletech is just a different form of steampunk.

[VeeOt Dragon]

i honestlly don't mind Arty/airstrike. it adds a dynamic element to matches. a few well placed ones can turn a complete stomp into a chance at victory (though the opposite is true as well, though when getting stomped i tend not to see as many of them coming our way). as far as limiting what mechs can field them i say no. honestly any unit with a radio can call in a strike (i'm ex US Army Artillery and demolitions specialist and just about any unit can call in our assistance as long as they can give us positioning information. don't even need smoke thats more for airstrikes were they need to see the target).

like has been said you don't have to use LRM, Arty/airstrik, or any other weapon or component you don't like. if you don't like it go play cod, this is MWO.

[Dozer6]

Meep Meep, on 25 March 2021 - 05:02 PM, said:

Heh yep. Any modern military would wipe the floor with battletech units. There would be some fairly stiff fights in the air for control of that but once sky dominance has been established the big ole mechs would be pounded into dirt. In many ways battletech is just a different form of steampunk.

I beg to differ.
The Mechs are the largest fighting machines on the battlefield, used by military units correct?

We play 12v12 in pub and FW, try to use tactics, flanking and establishing firing lines and other military tactics correct?

And we are arguing the validity of weapons platforms every day correct?

Sounds just like every other mil sim just with different vehicles...

[Gagis]

Mil sim games do not have artillery, because artillery makes boots and vehicles on the ground impotent and irrelevant. Indirect fire wins wars and is responsible for the majority of kills, but it is inherently unfair and simply incompatible with wargaming.

Except maybe horror games. Being on the recieving end of artillery might work for those.

[Dozer6]

Gagis, on 26 March 2021 - 06:52 AM, said:

Mil sim games do not have artillery, because artillery makes boots and vehicles on the ground impotent and irrelevant. Indirect fire wins wars and is responsible for the majority of kills, but it is inherently unfair and simply incompatible with wargaming.

Except maybe horror games. Being on the recieving end of artillery might work for those.

I'm not gonna waste time making a list of mil sims for you that have air strikes and artillery emplacements.

They are valid weapons of war and people need to stop crying about them.

Especially the upper tier "leeeet" players should be able to counter them easily at the level they are at...

Edited by Dozer6, 28 March 2021 - 06:20 AM.