49 replies to this topic

[PocketYoda]

All i ask for is to allow Assaults to look down further like the old days.. Allowing lights to get in close as and not having a chance to even hit them is ********.. Way overpowered light wise..

They already have the speed and movement. At least let us shoot them when they hug us. Especially with how slow they made assaults move.

Edited by Samial, 07 March 2021 - 05:51 PM.

[Elizander]

That's how the game is designed. A lot of larger mechs are gimped in terms of agility so that you can't keep up or even aim at lights from certain angles and distances. I don't like it, but that's how the game is designed to keep lights viable.

If it's just circle strafing and it's pissing you off, getting 30% Anchor Turn usually solves the problem along with firing with arm weapons.

Edited by Elizander, 07 March 2021 - 06:41 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Elizander, on 07 March 2021 - 06:40 PM, said:

That's how the game is designed. A lot of larger mechs are gimped in terms of agility so that you can't keep up or even aim at lights from certain angles and distances. I don't like it, but that's how the game is designed to keep lights viable.

If it's just circle strafing and it's pissing you off, getting 30% Anchor Turn usually solves the problem along with firing with arm weapons.

Even that doesn't help some Assaults.. Crazy how slow they made Assaults these days. Very far from the tabletop.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Samial, on 07 March 2021 - 07:29 PM, said:

Crazy how slow they made Assaults these days. Very far from the tabletop.

How do you figure? 3/5 in tabletop maxes out at about 55kph, and 4/6 hits 64-67 kph. That’s about what we’re seeing in game, minus the folks who really skimp on the engine in their builds.

[GuardDogg]

Noticed lights, mediums hold weapons way a lot better than Assaults, heavies.

[Capt Deadpool]

Lots of good info from.the community in this thread, OP.

I wish you better luck in the future.

[MeanMachinE]

This basically seems to work as intended. I do understand that some assaults would need more torso yaw or the ability to kick nearby mechs, but in general this is what has been intended at the moment. If your team does not understand their role on protecting the big guys, then you are screwed. On the other hand, I also understand that some light mechs would need better acceleration/smaller size/hitboxes etc. which they have had sometime in the past.

The real problem is related to nascar / running around like lemmings. This leaves the teams most coveted assets (slow, big mechs with firepower) vulnerable for easy pickings. The role in the match for different mech sizes is not clear anymore to some players. In general the lights should scout the enemy location/share information where different enemy lances are heading, take the cheap shots at the enemy, and then return to the pack to guard the big mechs/pickup a sniper or go wherever the situation requires. Lights have speed and that is what they need to take advantage of in matches. Of course there are mechs in different weight classes (looking at you Vulcan) that also fit the bill here, but you get my meaning.

To counter the lights and other fast mechs, especially medium mechs and other lights should check that nobody can easily get to backshot the big guys. Other options you have as a big mech are pinpoint hand weapons (preferably gauss, aim at legs - RAC's don't work against lights at all) or that you stick to another big guy, who can help you. UAV's can also help so that the team understands the map situation better + missile mechs might also be able to help you. You should also always try to be ahead of the curve where your team is going so that you would avoid being stranded. In general this means that you should at least tell in advance what your plan is, so that the team knows to help you when they can. As an assault you should also share your armour as this opens opportunities for other mechs to excel in the match. That is why assaults that like to sit pretty much out of the fight at long range are usually frowned upon.

[PocketYoda]

ScrapIron Prime, on 07 March 2021 - 07:36 PM, said:

How do you figure? 3/5 in tabletop maxes out at about 55kph, and 4/6 hits 64-67 kph. That’s about what we’re seeing in game, minus the folks who really skimp on the engine in their builds.

Yeah but their base speed is 54kph.. way faster than here. Nearly all Assaults here start at base 48.6kph

Edited by Samial, 08 March 2021 - 06:08 AM.

[Cherge]

I don't disagree. It's a shame lights are balanced by lag armor. But how do you fix that, besides overhauling the back end with the 2 programmers left at PGI

[FupDup]

Samial, on 08 March 2021 - 06:07 AM, said:

Yeah but their base speed is 54kph.. way faster than here. Nearly all Assaults here start at base 48.6kph

The Tabletop speeds have to round up movement points when you get a decimal value. That's why mechs that move at 3/5, 5/8, 7/11, etc. in TT are seemingly "slower" in MWO than TT. MWO gives them the real speed they're supposed to have. TT makes them faster than they should be because you can't walk half a hex. You can only walk hexes in whole numbers.

Edited by FupDup, 08 March 2021 - 03:26 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Samial, on 08 March 2021 - 06:07 AM, said:

Yeah but their base speed is 54kph.. way faster than here. Nearly all Assaults here start at base 48.6kph

There’s a simple reason for that. In tabletop, mechs use engines of a fixed size... tonnage times base movement. So a 90 tonner has a 270 or a 360 and nothing in between. In MWO, we usually round to multiples of 25 for the heat sinks... because unlike tabletop there’s nothing that says we can’t.

The result is most mechs being under-engined by a little bit as compared to tabletop. 80 tonner with a 320? Heck no, drop it to a 300 and save some weight!

[AncientRaig]

Fighting some lights in heavier mechs isn't just a "skill test", unfortunately. On top of PGI continually nerfing mobility all around, Mechs like the Commando, Piranha, Locust, Flea, and Mist Lynx are not only scaled considerably smaller than every other mech in the game, allowing them to often attack certain big, tall mechs like the Annihilator and Banshee without the attacker ever even being able to see them visually or even on sensors in the case of certain builds like the stealth armor Commando, effectively making them unable to retaliate, most of these mechs are capable, due to the CryEngine being a bad joke of a game engine, of quite literally outrunning their own hitboxes due to a combination of the engine still being largely incapable of handling mechs, especially small mechs, traveling above about ~100-120ish kph and the engine again struggling with sudden changes in velocity, like with MASC for example. I've engaged these mechs in my LB10+SRMs light hunter Shadow Hawk build and the only way I've managed to keep eyes on them is by using my jump jets to turn in place rapidly. And even with this manuevering, one stealth armor SRM Commando was able to abuse the above bug with CryEngine to send a considerable amount of my firepower into the void. It wasn't a matter of me not hitting him, it was a simple matter of the game not registering a large number of my hits. Meanwhile, the same build is generally tearing apart lights that are scaled more in-line with the rest of the mech roster, like the Wolfhound or Arctic Cheetah.

tldr while skill is definitely a major factor in dealing with light mechs, the game itself has several issues with netcode, overall mech mobility, and scaling that contribute to make the problem significantly worse for some mechs in certain situations against certain opponents.

[PocketYoda]

FupDup, on 08 March 2021 - 03:20 PM, said:

The Tabletop speeds have to round up movement points when you get a decimal value. That's why mechs that move at 3/5, 5/8, 7/11, etc. in TT are seemingly "slower" in MWO than TT. MWO gives them the real speed they're supposed to have. TT makes them faster than they should be because you can't walk half a hex. You can only walk hexes in whole numbers.

I mostly play Alpha Strike not so much hexes.. But still MWO should still be accurate to the canon.

ScrapIron Prime, on 08 March 2021 - 08:13 PM, said:

There’s a simple reason for that. In tabletop, mechs use engines of a fixed size... tonnage times base movement. So a 90 tonner has a 270 or a 360 and nothing in between. In MWO, we usually round to multiples of 25 for the heat sinks... because unlike tabletop there’s nothing that says we can’t.

The result is most mechs being under-engined by a little bit as compared to tabletop. 80 tonner with a 320? Heck no, drop it to a 300 and save some weight!

Well sorry but i feel MWO should follow the table top even if it means taking away engines..

Edited by Samial, 08 March 2021 - 11:33 PM.

[Ignatius Audene]

Pc game is not tt. otherwise u need to roll 2 hit.

[Gagis]

The abysmal torso yaw angles of many assaults, especially the Atlas, were extensively tested and demonstrated in the Gulag discussions and would definitely go a long way into making the game more fun. Taking full mobility skill tree gives you like a pixel more downward aim.

I agree, agility improvements would simply make the game better, even though lights aren't really OP. Its just less frustrating and more fun to play when you have more control of your mech, and this would not dramatically reduce viability of lights either.

[Ignatius Audene]

PC game is not tt. Otherwise u need to roll 2 hit and miss >50% of your shots.

[Meep Meep]

Samial, on 08 March 2021 - 11:32 PM, said:

Well sorry but i feel MWO should follow the table top even if it means taking away engines..

This is a real time hitscan first person 3d shooter game where everyone shoots and moves at the same time not a turn based game where each mech does its thing one after another using dice based rules. They tried to balance lrm with tt rules and it led to literally years of extreme back and forth that was never really solved because you just can't rubber stamp turn based mechanics onto a real time game. I think they need to mostly abandon trying to shoehorn in the tt rules and make the game fun and competitive using tt as a guide and not holy writ.

[FupDup]

Samial, on 08 March 2021 - 11:32 PM, said:

I mostly play Alpha Strike not so much hexes.. But still MWO should still be accurate to the canon.

Right now we have a single unified formula. To make the TT speeds work we would have to have two separate formulas based on which engine you have mounted.

It would also cause extremely stupid situations like upgrading your Atlas's engine to 325 would be slower than the stock 300. You're asking for the same speed as a 335 engine while only giving up as much tonnage as a 300.

Edited by FupDup, 09 March 2021 - 02:51 AM.

[Krucilatoz]

JPeiper, on 07 March 2021 - 04:47 AM, said:

I know this won't be popular but...
Just played Three games this morning. Got circle strafed to death by Two lights again. running a MAD with 2 RAC and lasers(but load out does not matter), can't even target them .Last game myself and an ANI ,both in good shape, got killed by 2 lights just running around our legs.the animation could not even keep up with the speed of these things (COM moving and turning so fast the legs did'nt move...)Yes, I know lights can be a one shot from a large mech, but all you have to do is move and keep the speed up, I've tried it and it works, dart in , get behind,slow down to stay ahead of the turning mech and keep shooting.Easy.And frustrating for the heavy pilot. I played "whack a mole" in the arcade, was crap at that too....
This has to be sorted out , it's not a skill test and I don't care if half of you think I'm crap , we ,or most of us,play this game for fun and it's not, if this carries on MWO will be dead 'cause we will not keep players, and any sales type will say it's better to keep customers than have to find new ones to replace the people who leave.
And I see the community wants to buff MG's and SM Las , well done, you'll have your backs ripped out from 300M now and circle strafing will take half as long.
This is a shame as I've never noticed aimbots or hacks in this game (glitches ,yes) and the community is (mostly) good.
To fix, slow them down and buff thier XP / cash for doing what lights do in a combined arms unit,find and spot / cap / snipe.
As far is I see it's an exploit, not a skill.
For those who dislike the above post just know I've spent this time 'cause I care about this game and it's future. I'm off now to cool down in Fallout 76 and it's many bugs, or Elite and it's stagnant gameplay, see you in the field next week.

Your pain, is the completely opposite of this thread :
https://mwomercs.com...-with-freelook/

so there your pain-reliever, bring assault mech which capable of destroying light-mech that thinking leg-hugging is good idea.

PS: that thread title also the hint ==> "who can control arms separately"

[Darion Rothgarr]

I feel your Pain and understand the frustration. Honestly, Its the Balance of Light mechs Paper thin armor by giving them speed and mobility. However, Physical attacks like kicks and Punches would make Light mechs a bit shy of doing the Leg Humping too but alas, i think that ship has sailed long ago (but i dont give up hope for it to someday be implemented). Maybe some day, we will get Physical inherent attacks... Kicks only being possible if the Mech is stationary, Punches only possible with Hand actuators. On the issue of the Commando tho... those hitboxes are broke as f man.