60 replies to this topic

[feeWAIVER]

What's up with all the maps having the same heat, and why isn't there more community outrage about this?

[FupDup]

They don't?

[Bud Crue]

For the first time, the MWO wiki providing information:

https://wiki.mwomerc...Map_Temperature

[PocketYoda]

There is no Hibernal.. on the Wiki

Edited by Samial, 12 March 2021 - 09:43 PM.

[feeWAIVER]

Lockheed_, on 11 March 2021 - 02:40 PM, said:

what are you talking about?

Go on to HPG Manifold and then Terra Therma and compare your heat dissipation.

Terra Therma and Polar Highlands- laser vomit alpha, both took 11 seconds to dissipate heat.

And back in the day, on Vitric Forge you used to run idle at 5% heat.

Bud Crue, on 11 March 2021 - 02:42 PM, said:

For the first time, the MWO wiki providing information:

https://wiki.mwomerc...Map_Temperature

Apparently not, because this information isn't true.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 11 March 2021 - 06:29 PM.

[Meep Meep]

feeWAIVER, on 11 March 2021 - 06:28 PM, said:

Terra Therma and Polar Highlands- laser vomit alpha, both took 11 seconds to dissipate heat.

And back in the day, on Vitric Forge you used to run idle at 5% heat.



Apparently not, because this information isn't true.

What mech and how many heatsinks? A clam mech that can squeeze in 20~30 double sinks along with cool run and whatever heat bonus the mech has doesn't really care much about ambient temps. A mech with only enough sinks to load into the game without a violation is going to be another matter altogether.

[feeWAIVER]

Meep Meep, on 11 March 2021 - 06:33 PM, said:

What mech and how many heatsinks? A clam mech that can squeeze in 20~30 double sinks along with cool run and whatever heat bonus the mech has doesn't really care much about ambient temps. A mech with only enough sinks to load into the game without a violation is going to be another matter altogether.

Warhammer D with XL340 engine and 8 double heat sinks.

[Meep Meep]

feeWAIVER, on 11 March 2021 - 06:45 PM, said:

Warhammer D with XL340 engine and 8 double heat sinks.

So 18 double sinks 13 of which are internal that get a boost to dissipation along with cool run. Yeah that's not going to care too much about ambient temps either. Drop the sinks down to the minimum 10 and try it again.

[feeWAIVER]

Meep Meep, on 11 March 2021 - 06:53 PM, said:

So 18 double sinks 13 of which are internal that get a boost to dissipation along with cool run. Yeah that's not going to care too much about ambient temps either. Drop the sinks down to the minimum 10 and try it again.

I tested with zero equipped heat sinks, and dissipation was 17 seconds on Polar and 18-19 seconds on Terra.
So maybe you are right- there may be some difference.

But heat has been nerfed sometime over the past 2 years. Because some maps used to have idle heat 5% just from walking around.. and now equipping a standard amount of heat sinks apparently makes hot biomes moot.

[Meep Meep]

Yeah they normalized the heat across all maps so there wasn't as many extremes. Plus I think the C number they use is just for show and that map heat is basically done like stealth armor with a map having a certain +- heat per second with certain spots on some of the maps having higher heat per second like the lava bits and such.

[Chris Lowrey]

Meep Meep, on 11 March 2021 - 07:21 PM, said:

Yeah they normalized the heat across all maps so there wasn't as many extremes. Plus I think the C number they use is just for show and that map heat is basically done like stealth armor with a map having a certain +- heat per second with certain spots on some of the maps having higher heat per second like the lava bits and such.

So I'm just coming back to MWO after being on MW5, but unless this particular change was pushed this past year while I was on MW5, the normalization mentioned here was never meant to completely get rid of ambient heat, but only reduce the extreme values you got from it. (So if a hot map gave you -2 cooling, it now gives you -1 cooling, and cold maps the inverse.) So I might need someone to enlighten me, was this a change deliberately pushed in the past year? Or are you mentioning the change that was pushed about 2-3 years ago? As if it's the latter, then there still should be some ambient heat in the level, and if it's completely nuked, that would be a bug.

[Navid A1]

Hey OP, before you doom us all please check your (mis)information before you post.

This is the current dissipation additive list for all maps.... feel free to reference anywhere you like.







Here is the full Doc if you want:
https://cdn.discorda...rior_Online.pdf


.

Edited by Navid A1, 12 March 2021 - 11:33 AM.

[nuttyrat]

Huh, and here I thought Vitric Forge had the highest dissipation penalty. Thanks for posting that, Navid!

Edited by nuttyrat, 12 March 2021 - 10:38 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

Navid A1, on 12 March 2021 - 10:13 AM, said:

Hey OP, before you doom us all please check your (mis)information before you post.

This is the current dissipation additive list for all maps.... feel free to reference anywhere you like.

The difference in Terra Therma and Polar Highlands with a Warhammer using an XL 340 and 8 double heatsinks equipped is virtually unnoticeable. Feel free to test it yourself.

We've established in this thread that the heat was nerfed in the last 2 years, which is news to me.
Managing heat was always one of the big draws to the Mechwarrior franchise for me, personally. YMMV.

[S4NCH0]

feeWAIVER, on 12 March 2021 - 10:49 AM, said:

The difference in Terra Therma and Polar Highlands with a Warhammer using an XL 340 and 8 double heatsinks equipped is virtually unnoticeable. Feel free to test it yourself.

We've established in this thread that the heat was nerfed in the last 2 years, which is news to me.
Managing heat was always one of the big draws to the Mechwarrior franchise for me, personally. YMMV.

18? It is impossible to have 8.

[Navid A1]

feeWAIVER, on 12 March 2021 - 10:49 AM, said:

The difference in Terra Therma and Polar Highlands with a Warhammer using an XL 340 and 8 double heatsinks equipped is virtually unnoticeable. Feel free to test it yourself.

We've established in this thread that the heat was nerfed in the last 2 years, which is news to me.
Managing heat was always one of the big draws to the Mechwarrior franchise for me, personally. YMMV.

The difference in dissipation between the two cases you described is 0.26 heat per second... slightly higher than just one double heatsink... which makes it less noticeable when tested on a mech with so many heatsinks.

When you consider light mechs with usually 10 heatsinks, then you know why you can't go crazy with those additives.... imagine that light losing a component with heatsinks in it too.

[feeWAIVER]

S4NCH0, on 12 March 2021 - 11:20 AM, said:

18? It is impossible to have 8.

8, plus however come in the engine by default.
One in each arm, 3 in the torsos, 3 in the engine slots.

Navid A1, on 12 March 2021 - 11:25 AM, said:

which makes it less noticeable when tested on a mech with so many heatsinks.

Virtually unnoticeable in a pretty standard mech with a pretty standard build.
It didn't used to be this way. The heat used to be noticeable.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 12 March 2021 - 11:33 AM.

[Gagis]

The heat balance about 3 years ago reduced heat capacity significantly and increased heat dissipation significantly. This shifted meta away from alpha strike and towards damage per second. Overall it has been seen as a good change over the past several years.

You still notice hot maps being hot as the heat limits your sustained damage output.

Edited by Gagis, 12 March 2021 - 11:36 AM.

[MyriadDigits]

feeWAIVER, on 12 March 2021 - 11:32 AM, said:

8, plus however come in the engine by default.
One in each arm, 3 in the torsos, 3 in the engine slots.

So..... 18. Every mech has 10 heatsinks minimum (on engines 250 and up, all 10 bare minimum heatsinks are provided by the engine itself).

Methinks you're doing a whole lot of talk about how much of a problem the map heat is for you without a whole lot of understanding of heat and heatsinks in this game. Personally I think not crippling or giga-buffing hot builds based on the entirely random map selection while still having some difference is a fine way to go about it. Hot builds still enjoy some extra cooling in Frozen City, Night Gyrs still laugh in Terra Therma, but its not game changing by any means.

[feeWAIVER]

MyriadDigits, on 12 March 2021 - 07:31 PM, said:

So..... 18. Every mech has 10 heatsinks minimum (on engines 250 and up, all 10 bare minimum heatsinks are provided by the engine itself).

Methinks you're doing a whole lot of talk about how much of a problem the map heat is for you without a whole lot of understanding of heat and heatsinks in this game. Personally I think not crippling or giga-buffing hot builds based on the entirely random map selection while still having some difference is a fine way to go about it. Hot builds still enjoy some extra cooling in Frozen City, Night Gyrs still laugh in Terra Therma, but its not game changing by any means.

Attack the messenger, ignore the messege.

Methinks the current tier 1 crowd is enjoying the low skill ceiling of nonexistent heat management.
11 seconds to cool down from an alpha- regardless of map choice - test it yourself.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 12 March 2021 - 07:53 PM.