60 replies to this topic

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

feeWAIVER, on 12 March 2021 - 07:45 PM, said:

Methinks the current tier 1 crowd is enjoying the low skill ceiling of nonexistent heat management.

You know top tier players often run very hot builds right?

[MyriadDigits]

Monke-, on 12 March 2021 - 08:16 PM, said:

You know top tier players often run very hot builds right?

Apparently not lmao

[D U N E]

What builds are you running that you don't need to manage heat? Being heat capped is a mark of contribution. There are builds that don't follow this trend, though it sounds like a you problem.

[Rosarius]

feeWAIVER, on 12 March 2021 - 07:45 PM, said:

Attack the messenger, ignore the messege.

Methinks the current tier 1 crowd is enjoying the low skill ceiling of nonexistent heat management.
11 seconds to cool down from an alpha- regardless of map choice - test it yourself.

There are no ad hominem attacks happening here. Mechs that can boat heatsinks are less reliant on environment to dissipate that heat.

According to Li Song Mechlab, an unskilled hellbringer with 10+15 DHS will take 10.5 seconds to cool down from 100% on Rublite and 10.46 seconds to cool down from 100% on HPG, a difference of 0.04 seconds. Insignificant, but a difference nonetheless.

On the other hand, an unskilled wolfhound with 10+2 DHS will take 21.5 seconds to cool down from 100% on Rublite and 19.5 seconds to cool down from 100% on HPG, a difference of 2 seconds WHICH IS SIGNIFICANT!

[feeWAIVER]

Monke-, on 12 March 2021 - 08:16 PM, said:

You know top tier players often run very hot builds right?

MyriadDigits, on 12 March 2021 - 08:23 PM, said:

Apparently not lmao

D U N E, on 12 March 2021 - 08:23 PM, said:

What builds are you running that you don't need to manage heat? Being heat capped is a mark of contribution. There are builds that don't follow this trend, though it sounds like a you problem.

You guys are missing the point completely, or being willfully ignorant forum warriors.
I'll say it once more-
The map heat has been nerfed to the point that, unless you're literally sitting in a pool of lava, a typical kit laser vomit Warhammer has the same heat- the same cooldown period - on terra therma as they do in polar highlands.

So essentially, the biomes are only cosmetic only. Test it yourself.

Rosarius, on 12 March 2021 - 08:38 PM, said:

According to Li Song Mechlab, an unskilled hellbringer with 10+15 DHS will take 10.5 seconds to cool down from 100% on Rublite and 10.46 seconds to cool down from 100% on HPG, a difference of 0.04 seconds. Insignificant, but a difference nonetheless.

It didn't used to be this way, and that is the point. The map heat has been nerfed. We're playing on the Easy Setting.

[Rosarius]

feeWAIVER, on 12 March 2021 - 08:46 PM, said:

It didn't used to be this way, and that is the point. The map heat has been nerfed. We're playing on the Easy Setting.

Equip your whammy with more weapons and less heatsinks then?

[MyriadDigits]

feeWAIVER, on 12 March 2021 - 08:46 PM, said:

So essentially, the biomes are only cosmetic only. Test it yourself.

Rosarius, on 12 March 2021 - 08:38 PM, said:

On the other hand, an unskilled wolfhound with 10+2 DHS will take 21.5 seconds to cool down from 100% on Rublite and 19.5 seconds to cool down from 100% on HPG, a difference of 2 seconds WHICH IS SIGNIFICANT!

Hmmmmmmmm that "biomes are cosmetic" statement of yours don't check out chief

[feeWAIVER]

Rosarius, on 12 March 2021 - 08:54 PM, said:

Equip your whammy with more weapons and less heatsinks then?

This is a stupid argument, that contributes nothing to the topic.

MyriadDigits, on 12 March 2021 - 08:57 PM, said:

Hmmmmmmmm that "biomes are cosmetic" statement of yours don't check out chief

Yeah, because we're balancing the game environment around unskilled wolfhounds............. .... ....

[D U N E]

Coldest map, +0.15. Hottest map, -0.3.
Difference - 0.45
SHS cooling capacity, 0.14
DHS cooling capacity, 0.22

Difference
3 Single heatsinks
2 Double heatsinks

From the hottest to the coldest you are looking at on average 2 heatsinks. From the baseline, this is usually going to be 1 heatsink up/down. A lightmech with 10-12 heatsinks is changing capacity by (I am not doing math properly) approx 8%. A heavy mech with 25-35 heatsinks won't notice ****.

Map heat if adjusted cannot stay additive, since in the current nature, making it anymore extreme only imbalances lighter mechs with less heatsinks, while generally being unnoticeable by larger mechs filled with them.

[Rosarius]

feeWAIVER, on 12 March 2021 - 09:01 PM, said:

This is a stupid argument, that contributes nothing to the topic.

You wanted hard mode... go play hard mode!

feeWAIVER, on 12 March 2021 - 09:01 PM, said:

Yeah, because we're balancing the game environment around unskilled wolfhounds............. .... ....

What balance changes are you proposing? To make hot maps hotter and cold maps colder? This will only buff mechs that can boat heat sinks further, making your whammy (or even the hellbringer example I used earlier) even easier to use in comparison to mechs that can't boat heatsinks

Edited by Rosarius, 12 March 2021 - 09:09 PM.

[MyriadDigits]

feeWAIVER, on 12 March 2021 - 09:01 PM, said:

This is a stupid argument, that contributes nothing to the topic.




Yeah, because we're balancing the game environment around unskilled wolfhounds............. .... ....

No, we're balancing around everything. Take a moment and step outside of your own cockpit and think about how the changes you'd want would affect something other than your 18 DHS Whammy. Like the poor unskilled Wolfhound, or anything else that doesn't have the slots or tons to cram enough heatsinks to effectively ignore biome heat.

Random map selection should not make or break a build, nor should the capability to cram enough heatsinks to entirely ignore biome heat.

[PocketYoda]

Navid A1, on 12 March 2021 - 10:13 AM, said:

Hey OP, before you doom us all please check your (mis)information before you post.

This is the current dissipation additive list for all maps.... feel free to reference anywhere you like.







Here is the full Doc if you want:
https://cdn.discorda...rior_Online.pdf


.

That maybe what it states but those temps do not seem accurate to the actual game. Hibernal is far hotter than Polar and Grim Plexus etc. So is Solaris. way hotter than those specs suggest.

Edited by Samial, 12 March 2021 - 09:51 PM.

[feeWAIVER]

MyriadDigits, on 12 March 2021 - 09:22 PM, said:

No, we're balancing around everything. Take a moment and step outside of your own cockpit and think about how the changes you'd want would affect something other than your 18 DHS Whammy.

I've now tested with a Locust, Hunchback, Warhammer, and Atlas.
For each of these mechs, the cooldown period was indistinguishable from Terra Therma to Polar Highlands.

Conclusion- Map heat is broken, and map biomes are purely cosmetic.

[Laser Kiwi]

Metalgod69, on 12 March 2021 - 09:55 PM, said:

The OP seems right. In the past heat at terra therma was so extreme, that i quit the map when i dropped with a laser only hellbringer. Now its no problem, at least thats my impression. (Since i rarely play nowadays, i wouldnt bet my soul on it.)

Yeah they reduced it, but people have been using laser builds adequately on terra for years, they just, you know, managed their heat better.

[Laser Kiwi]

Hey, how come navid has actual figures, but the guy in charge of balancing the game doesn't know what the numbers are, riddle me that riddler?

Metalgod69, on 12 March 2021 - 10:12 PM, said:

Thats excactly the point: they had to manage the heat well. Now its not so important. Seems that pgi dumbed the heat system down.

Yeah, but ultimately nothing changed in the order of things, good players still good etc, honestly I like the changes because who the **** would bring a laser mech to terra therma to face a ballistic mech, and as u say if some guy dc's as a result, well holy **** u just broke tos.

[Meep Meep]

feeWAIVER, on 12 March 2021 - 10:04 PM, said:

I've now tested with a Locust, Hunchback, Warhammer, and Atlas.
For each of these mechs, the cooldown period was indistinguishable from Terra Therma to Polar Highlands.

Conclusion- Map heat is broken, and map biomes are purely cosmetic.

Didn't you test with only 10 sinks and found a difference? Remember that the more sinks you can stick in the less ambient temp means even back in the old days.

[feeWAIVER]

Laser Kiwi, on 12 March 2021 - 10:15 PM, said:

Hey, how come navid has actual figures, but the guy in charge of balancing the game doesn't know what the numbers are, riddle me that riddler?



Yeah, but ultimately nothing changed in the order of things, good players still good etc, honestly I like the changes because who the **** would bring a laser mech to terra therma to face a ballistic mech, and as u say if some guy dc's as a result, well holy **** u just broke tos.

It's easier to be "good" when they lower the skill ceiling.

Meep Meep, on 12 March 2021 - 10:24 PM, said:

Didn't you test with only 10 sinks and found a difference? Remember that the more sinks you can stick in the less ambient temp means even back in the old days.

I tested with a Locust and Hunchback, which both had a total of 11 sinks including the engine... and it was the same. Neither mech had any skills in Operations.
Feel free to do your own testing. The maps are the same.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 12 March 2021 - 10:32 PM.

[D U N E]

feeWAIVER, on 12 March 2021 - 10:31 PM, said:

It's easier to be "good" when they lower the skill ceiling.



I tested with a Locust, which had a total of 11 sinks including the engine... and it was the same.
Feel free to do your own testing. The maps are the same.

Did you test in testing grounds, or on actual live server games?

[feeWAIVER]

D U N E, on 12 March 2021 - 10:32 PM, said:

Did you test in testing grounds, or on actual live server games?

I tested in testing ground, but was initially noticed on live servers.

[Meep Meep]

feeWAIVER, on 12 March 2021 - 10:31 PM, said:

It's easier to be "good" when they lower the skill ceiling.



I tested with a Locust and Hunchback, which both had a total of 11 sinks including the engine... and it was the same. Neither mech had any skills in Operations.
Feel free to do your own testing. The maps are the same.

And this is the testing grounds not a live match? I'm not doubting you just not noticing this sameness of heat dissipation. When I'm in my stealth flea on terra the heat racks up fast and dissipates slowly but on cold map its manageable. Same with other mechs. I have an lrm spam hunstman that can pretty much spam fire endlessly on a cold map but will max its heat on a very hot map. I also have laser vomit clan mechs with a zillion double sinks and dissipation is so fast I can't tell no matter what map I'm on. So there is a difference just not the difference you were used to or prefer to have. But this is one of the only threads I can remember complaining about it so good luck!