17 replies to this topic

[Elizander]

Just curious as to why this short range brawling weapon was given the sniper treatment without the sniper range.

[The Basilisk]

Elizander, on 16 March 2021 - 12:02 AM, said:

Just curious as to why this short range brawling weapon was given the sniper treatment without the sniper range.

It is not about Range it is about PPFL-damage...Put 4 of them on a Marauder II and its like any dual AC20 boat and in the right hands it is actualy more dangerous due to its higher projectile speed --> accuracy...other extreme would be light mechs fielding 2 of them poking in and out, beeing essentialy almost impossible to hit for larger mechs due to 0 little face time and high accuracy

Edited by The Basilisk, 16 March 2021 - 12:47 AM.

[Davegt27]

they do ? (think its a sniping weapon)

except for testing I don't use the snub nose PPC it too hot

[The6thMessenger]

The same reason why they think LGR needs that much DPS reduction.

[LordNothing]

i think the light ppc took a bigger bite out of the **** sandwich. even its niche as a snap shooter for light mechs is gone now. id use it mostly for the ppfld rather than the range, but without the dps thats useless now. was always a shoot'n'scoot weapon. might still be useful as a boatable weapon on heavier mechs. but it now has the worst cd of any ppc.

snub and light both had different roles from the others imho.

[Gagis]

I'm pretty sure the new numbers are pretty much randomly generated without that much nuance into where they came about from.

[LordNothing]

The6thMessenger, on 16 March 2021 - 12:35 AM, said:

The same reason why they think LGR needs that much DPS reduction.

i thought that was bad too. only build i use them on is the quad lgauss fafnir build, and even that kind of sucks. not nearly as fun as it was in mw4. now it has to plink away at a much slower rate.

i thought it would be better to increase the charge limit to 3 or 4. or do something where each gauss has a charge requirement, hgr = 1.0, gauss = 0.75 and lgauss = 0.5, and the sum of any collection of various gauss rifles cannot exceed 2. so you can fire a standard or heavy and 2 lights, or 2 standards and a light, or 4 lights. if you come in under the charge limit, you get a charge time bonus. like a dual standard would only come in at 1.5, so it would get 1.3x faster charge time and a single light would charge 4x faster (urbie wants).

[The Basilisk]

LordNothing, on 16 March 2021 - 12:44 AM, said:

i think the light ppc took a bigger bite out of the **** sandwich. even its niche as a snap shooter for light mechs is gone now. id use it mostly for the ppfld rather than the range, but without the dps thats useless now. was always a shoot'n'scoot weapon. might still be useful as a boatable weapon on heavier mechs. but it now has the worst cd of any ppc.

snub and light both had different roles from the others imho.

I duno.... the only thing light PPC had in my eyes going for itself was the tonnage advantage in relation to a standart PPC....in all other respectives 2LPPCs where exactly the same weapon than a standard...now its different...you get 14/14 H/D every 7.25sec for 6 tonns and 4 slots for LPPC versus 11/12 H/D every 6sec for 7 tonns and 3 slots for standart PPC.
So its 1.51/1.93 hps/dps @6t versus 2/2 hps/dps @7t....surprise surprise actually the LPPC seems now in a slight advantage here with beeing cooler and getting more bang for bugs.

And regarding the LGauss...put four of them on a large mech and shoot them 2/2 thats 44points of dmg for virtualy no heat at extreme range and accuracy

Edited by The Basilisk, 16 March 2021 - 01:23 AM.

[LordNothing]

The Basilisk, on 16 March 2021 - 01:19 AM, said:

I duno.... the only thing light PPC had in my eyes going for itself was the tonnage advantage in relation to a standart PPC....in all other respectives 2LPPCs where exactly the same weapon than a standard...now its different...you get 14/14 H/D every 7.25sec for 6 tonns and 4 slots for LPPC versus 11/12 H/D every 6sec for 7 tonns and 3 slots for standart PPC.
So its 1.51/1.93 hps/dps @6t versus 2/2 hps/dps @7t....surprise surprise actually the LPPC seems now in a slight advantage here with beeing cooler and getting more bang for bugs.

And regarding the LGauss...put four of them on a large mech and shoot them 2/2 thats 44points of dmg for virtualy no heat at extreme range and accuracy

it just ruins a lot of builds for me because its now in a completely different niche. im going to have to switch those for medpulse as those builds were made for shoot'n'scoot rather than camping. medpulse isnt as good as ppfld in this situation, but its the next best thing. it is going to see use in other builds though.

lgauss is in a similar position. it will probably be fine in the one use case i have for it, but i want to be able to use it on more than a not that great niche build.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 March 2021 - 02:07 AM.

[The Basilisk]

LordNothing, on 16 March 2021 - 02:00 AM, said:

it just ruins a lot of builds for me because its now in a completely different niche. im going to have to switch those for medpulse as those builds were made for shoot'n'scoot rather than camping. medpulse isnt as good as ppfld in this situation, but its the next best thing. it is going to see use in other builds though.

lgauss is in a similar position. it will probably be fine in the one use case i have for it, but i want to be able to use it on more than a not that great niche build.

That patch sure mixes up a lot of builds and playstyles alright....question is will that be a bad thing ?

[LordNothing]

The Basilisk, on 16 March 2021 - 02:50 AM, said:

That patch sure mixes up a lot of builds and playstyles alright....question is will that be a bad thing ?

anything that scrambles the meta is good right now. the game needs some source of novelty, and balance changes such as this tend to drive new metas and make things more interesting. its not as good as new stuff or interesting quirks on oddball variants, but its change.

[Elizander]

LordNothing, on 16 March 2021 - 02:52 AM, said:

anything that scrambles the meta is good right now. the game needs some source of novelty, and balance changes such as this tend to drive new metas and make things more interesting. its not as good as new stuff or interesting quirks on oddball variants, but its change.

The only argument that others have mentioned is that the meta to them is Clan ER PPCs and IS Medium Pulse Lasers and those will supposedly still be the best weapons after the update. It's a bit contradictory because IS PPCs got the same change as Clan ER PPCs but are now supposed to be trash. That might be in the most meta highest of tiers, but I don't see it in La La Land where I'm at.

PGI should have an event where you need to get 2-5k damage for each of these updated weapons and reward players with some MC for playtesting the changes.

Edited by Elizander, 16 March 2021 - 02:57 AM.

[Ignatius Audene]

The ppc changes are &3&÷. Snub ppc with this stats is even worst than before. 2 mpl over one snub always.
Instead of changing each ppc on their own and their individuell role, they tried universal changes. This is not the way to give each ppc it's own role!

For clan ppc it feels just like a strait and unnecessary buff. 72 dmg in a typical 4 ppc build? The cool down does not rly matter for the 3-4 ppc boats.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Ignatius Audene, on 16 March 2021 - 03:00 AM, said:

The ppc changes are &3&÷. Snub ppc with this stats is even worst than before. 2 mpl over one snub always.
Instead of changing each ppc on their own and their individuell role, they tried universal changes. This is not the way to give each ppc it's own role!

For clan ppc it feels just like a strait and unnecessary buff. 72 dmg in a typical 4 ppc build? The cool down does not rly matter for the 3-4 ppc boats.

This is true for most non-meme PPC builds generally, they're all heat-capped rather than cooldown-capped. They couldn't realistically fire on cooldown more than twice anyways, so higher per-shot damage is an unmitigated buff. Doubly so for poptarts.

[Ignatius Audene]

The snub nose annoys me the most. If u see its range/ dmg profile, u can see, that u need to balance it against 2 IS MPL.
For 4 tons 2 slot u got same range profile, 12 dmg, faaaaar lower heat and faaaaaar better cool down. So u rly need to gauge how much is the ppfld worth against the rly low burn duration and balance from there (yea ok 2 laser slots, and mpl are rly good)

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 16 March 2021 - 07:38 AM.

[Wildstreak]

All I see is:
- me removing almost all PPCs barely useful anymore. LPL does right fine, sometimes better.
- me using more ACs.
- me using more MRMs.
- me removing the only 2 Gauss I ever used.

[Sol Lunari]

I'll most likely be removing most or all of the PPC's from my mechs after these changes. They did the exact opposite of what I suggested needed to be done with the Snub PPC. It was garbage before and it's been made even worse. The one mech I have that did use a Snub PPC will have to be reworked into something else since this change completely ruined that build. Most likely be swapping it out for 2 or even 3 MPL. Not what I wanted to do, I wanted to have a mech that actually used snub, but not after this.

Edited by Sol Lunari, 16 March 2021 - 12:54 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Sol Lunari, on 16 March 2021 - 12:44 PM, said:

I'll most likely be removing most or all of the PPC's from my mechs after these changes. They did the exact opposite of what I suggested needed to be done with the Snub PPC. It was garbage before and it's been made even worse. The one mech I have that did use a Snub PPC will have to be reworked into something else since this change completely ruined that build.

Snub is the exception the the changes