46 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

ScrapIron Prime, on 16 March 2021 - 05:35 PM, said:

You shoulda heard them cry when they first implemented ghost heat. Nobody was ever going to use PPCs again.

I saw a Direstar this past week, he was one of 4 Mechs, 2 per team, in a match and killed himself just to nail a Light leaving a 1 v 1.

Relishcakes, on 16 March 2021 - 05:42 PM, said:

I still see and am getting bodied by plenty of gauss..do i like it? no...am i going to quit because of it? i might quit using my mid/short range thunderbolt for now..but thats about it.

7 MPL 5SS and 3 LPL 9SE still work for me. 5S is MRMs and 9S is dual AMS + lasers both working. Not using Hero at moment.

LordBraxton, on 16 March 2021 - 05:50 PM, said:

Uninstalled cause I love MASC and the EXE and they just ruined my main ride

How?

[The6thMessenger]

SirSmokes, on 16 March 2021 - 06:13 PM, said:

I like PPC changes those are good for most part guass not so much like that less MASC changes do suck balls. AC changes good work great with PPC now for front load damage. It's a mixed bag

Damage increase isn't really bad in itself.

Problem is the additional baggage that comes with it like increased heat and CD. That means it's a lot less forgiving, a lot less synergistic with other weapons, the matter of cooldown and heat-spike.

[MechWarrior414712]

@Wildsteak I think by "how" he must be referring to the fact that the Exe and Kodiak can't turn at all while they masc and are forced to go forward. And can't decelerate anymore as masc doesn't boost it anymore.

[The pessimistic optimist]

The6thMessenger, on 16 March 2021 - 06:15 PM, said:

Damage increase isn't really bad in itself.

Problem is the additional baggage that comes with it like increased heat and CD. That means it's a lot less forgiving, a lot less synergistic with other weapons, the matter of cooldown and heat-spike.

Heat is fine longer CD makes heat on them just fine. What this change dose do is make PPCs less versatile but better at the way people mostly use them. Its mainly a buff to the way most people play PPCs

Edited by SirSmokes, 16 March 2021 - 06:23 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Wildstreak, on 16 March 2021 - 06:15 PM, said:

How?

My guess is that he uses MASC as super anchor-turn. The executioner would be greatly affected by it, yeah.

But quitting because a number in a spreadsheet changed?

[LordBraxton]

ScrapIron Prime, on 16 March 2021 - 06:24 PM, said:

My guess is that he uses MASC as super anchor-turn. The executioner would be greatly affected by it, yeah.

But quitting because a number in a spreadsheet changed?

MASC agility was the only thing keeping the EXE alive.

Im one of very few people who use it.

Its useless as a sprint and I didnt want more sprint range. I feather MASC when im accelerating, decelerating and most importantly, turning. In fact I play it so much I find myself pressing my MASC key on other mechs to turn.

They nerfed the hell out of a mech that needed a buff if anything.

Once again PGI doesnt think at ALL about how their changes effect different chassis.

Ironically I switched to the EXE when it came out cause they gutted the agility of my other hipster-fast-assaults with the engine Desync, now my last enjoyable mech is gone.

I almost pre-ordered the new Thunderbolt because I love MASC so much.

Oh well.

Back to retirement, after a couple more days of complaining on the forums and sending them angry feedback.

Edited by LordBraxton, 16 March 2021 - 06:33 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

SirSmokes, on 16 March 2021 - 06:19 PM, said:

Heat is fine longer CD makes heat on them just fine. What this change dose do is make PPCs less versatile but better at the way people mostly use them. Its mainly a buff to the way most people play PPCs

I said heatspike, it affects the versatility of PPC, I don't think it should be enforced into a single role of sniping, uses with other weapon should be encouraged, not just slap all the DHS for the heat cap and dissipation. Hell, the SNPPC shouldn't be a sniper, who the **** thought it was?

Also buff does not mean it's good, or balanced. The increase of alpha may be useful, but with it less forgiving, it's only more of a buff at the higher end of the skill. The reduction of DPS, as people have said, means the game is more attuned to DPS, that means people Nascar harder.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 16 March 2021 - 06:33 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

The6thMessenger, on 16 March 2021 - 06:32 PM, said:

I said heatspike, it affects the versatility of PPC, I don't think it should be enforced into a single role of sniping, uses with other weapon should be encouraged, not just slap all the DHS for the heat cap and dissipation. Hell, the SNPPC shouldn't be a sniper, who the **** thought it was?

PPC should be long range weapon with snub acceptation. PPC problem has always bin its versatility jack of all tradeness. I can do little of everything making me super useful. Now it works better the way most people use them but I can't expect to win a brawl down with them now

Edited by SirSmokes, 16 March 2021 - 06:48 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

SirSmokes, on 16 March 2021 - 06:46 PM, said:

PPC should be long range weapon with snub acceptation. PPC problem has always bin its versatility jack of all tradeness. I can do little of everything making me super useful. Now it works better the way most people use them but I can't expect to win a brawl down with them now

Being Jack of All Trades isn't bad. Long range is just that, long range. And again, even if it's "better the way most people use them" as in sniping, it doesn't mean it's better for the game as a whole. If you wanted to snipe PPC, just add more PPC, the need to dissipate excess heat will inevitably reduce your rate of fire -- and thus we get the 3x ERPPC builds with Veagle and Executioner. We don't need this artificial hamfisted approach, it was working fine before.

Damage wasn't the problem, it was heat. This is not what the Gulag wanted.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 16 March 2021 - 07:04 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

The6thMessenger, on 16 March 2021 - 06:59 PM, said:

Being Jack of All Trades isn't bad. Long range is just that, long range. And again, even if it's "better the way most people use them" as in sniping, it doesn't mean it's better for the game as a whole. If you wanted to snipe PPC, just add more PPC, the need to dissipate excess heat will inevitably reduce your rate of fire. We don't need this artificial hamfisted approach.

Damage wasn't the problem, it was heat. This is not what the Gulag wanted.

It makes them too good. The two problem weapons have always bin LRMs and PPCs when it comes to balance. The more I look at the gulag more it just looks like it will entrench things even more

Edited by SirSmokes, 16 March 2021 - 07:05 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

SirSmokes, on 16 March 2021 - 07:04 PM, said:

It makes them too good. The two problem weapons have always bin LRMs and PPCs when it comes to balance. The more I look at the gulag more it just looks like it will entrench thing way they are not even more

The only too good was the CERPPC, 15 damage with 6 tons? ******* broken that is. But it still needs to be Jack of All Trades, it's the only PPC for the clans.

But frontloading damage wouldn't have been my approach. i would rather offload damage to 10 + 2 splash with 11 heat at 4s CD for CERPPC. This will make CERPPC more versatile and useful with other weapons, instead of being the weapon on it's own.

Yeah, but the Gulag is overwhelmingly good for the game. I have personal nitpicks with it, but that's more of small wishlist.

[The pessimistic optimist]

The6thMessenger, on 16 March 2021 - 07:10 PM, said:

The only too good was the CERPPC, 15 damage with 6 tons? ******* broken that is. But it still needs to be Jack of All Trades, it's the only PPC for the clans.

But frontloading damage wouldn't have been my approach. i would rather offload damage to 10 + 2 splash with 11 heat at 4s CD for CERPPC. This will make CERPPC more versatile and useful with other weapons, instead of being the weapon on it's own.

Yeah, but the Gulag is overwhelmingly good for the game. I have personal nitpicks with it, but that's more of small wishlist.

I love my LPPC lights right now super fun and very effective. It like rolling with a slow firing long range AC 20 now. These changes open build options I like that. Let throw up the PTS try all this crap maybe we can learn something. I like the PPC changes I just do

Edited by SirSmokes, 16 March 2021 - 07:13 PM.

[Adette]

SirSmokes, on 16 March 2021 - 07:04 PM, said:

It makes them too good. The two problem weapons have always bin LRMs and PPCs when it comes to balance. The more I look at the gulag more it just looks like it will entrench things even more

No, because for the last 2 years, IS MPL at the short range, and Dakka sustain at the mid range reigned supreme. The PPC/Gauss/MASC "balance" patch did nothing to shift any balance, IS MPL and Dakka sustain still reigns supreme, PPC/Gauss/MASC just got worse.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Adette, on 16 March 2021 - 07:11 PM, said:

No, because for the last 2 years, IS MPL at the short range, and Dakka sustain at the mid range reigned supreme. The PPC/Gauss/MASC "balance" patch did nothing to shift any balance, IS MPL and Dakka sustain still reigns supreme, PPC/Gauss/MASC just got worse.

PPC got better"in my option" gauss and MASC do suck. And yes the two weapons they have always gone from crap trier to god have always bin LRMs and PPCs for most of this game yes. Talking about full life of this game

Edited by SirSmokes, 16 March 2021 - 07:17 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

SirSmokes, on 16 March 2021 - 07:10 PM, said:

I love my LPPC lights right now super fun and very effective. It like rolling with a slow firing long range AC 20 now. These changes open build options I like that. Let throw up the PTS try all this crap maybe we can learn something. I like the PPC changes I just do

It's the LPPC, we all know it's **** before -- nobody is looking at the LPPC and see meta, of course the damage increase would help it. Even my own suggestion puts LPPCs at 6 damage for 5 heat and 3s CD.

But while it opens doors for the LPPC, it closes ones for others. The PPCs while better at sniping, is now worse at other aspects -- this is not good, and to celebrate such change for such a single aspect is missing a lot of the nuance in the game.

It's self-serving than actually caring about the balance as a whole.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 16 March 2021 - 07:29 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

The6thMessenger, on 16 March 2021 - 07:19 PM, said:

It's the LPPC, we all know it's **** before, of course the damage increase would help it. Even my own suggestion puts LPPCs at 6 damage for 5 heat and 3s CD.

But while it opens doors for the LPPC, it closes ones for others. The PPCs while better at sniping, is now worse at other aspects -- this is not good, and to celebrate such change for such a single aspect is missing a lot of the nuance in the game.

I don't think this will end up mattering anyways pretty sure these changes are not staying

[Wildstreak]

I O O percent KongLord, on 16 March 2021 - 06:18 PM, said:

@Wildsteak I think by "how" he must be referring to the fact that the Exe and Kodiak can't turn at all while they masc and are forced to go forward. And can't decelerate anymore as masc doesn't boost it anymore.

ScrapIron Prime, on 16 March 2021 - 06:24 PM, said:

My guess is that he uses MASC as super anchor-turn. The executioner would be greatly affected by it, yeah.

But quitting because a number in a spreadsheet changed?

I'll have to see sometime in the next week, have not used my EXEs that I got like 4-5 of but only 2 built and usable. While I understand the turning nerf, I also used MASC for popping out of cover, poking then ducking back. While Decelerate is nerfed I have to see if speed coming out and ducking is buffed.
I have MASC on 3 other chassis but only really using the Hellfire recently, don't care about turning or decelerate on that but with lasers + SRMs, a speed buff is fine. SHC and that 1 Wolverine depends on loadout.

[LordBraxton]

Wildstreak, on 16 March 2021 - 07:37 PM, said:

I'll have to see sometime in the next week, have not used my EXEs that I got like 4-5 of but only 2 built and usable. While I understand the turning nerf, I also used MASC for popping out of cover, poking then ducking back. While Decelerate is nerfed I have to see if speed coming out and ducking is buffed.
I have MASC on 3 other chassis but only really using the Hellfire recently, don't care about turning or decelerate on that but with lasers + SRMs, a speed buff is fine. SHC and that 1 Wolverine depends on loadout.

in terms of peek-n-poke OR brawling, the accel, decel, and turning matter way more than top speed or MASC up-time.

Its a huge nerf.

[PocketYoda]

SirSmokes, on 16 March 2021 - 06:07 PM, said:

It's some bad some good

Agreed thats why i'm on the fence..

[Valdarion Silarius]

Not going to yet, but if PGI continues on this course and completely ignores the Gulag then I might be forced to in the future. It would be a damn shame since I invested what I would consider a hefty amount of money into MW:O compared to some other titles.