16 replies to this topic

[Yogge Mothi]

I really liked the "starburst" nature of the snub-nosed PPC in Battletech. If PGI is trying to make the PPCs feel unique in their role, why not make the snub-nosed the energy version of the LB-X? I think it would be a very fun and interesting weapon if implemented this way. Instead of making it a cold-running crit-seeker like the LB-X line of weapons, it could instead be a hot, damage-focused alternative at brawling range.

What do you all think? Would you like to see PGI implement a change like this, instead of just number-fiddling with damage, heat, and cooldown?

[Y E O N N E]

No, no, and no. Crits are not fun, they are frustrating.

Note, every LB-X other than the 10 is useless. The 20 has some niches...but only because the standard AC/20 is also crap. The SN-PPC as a shotgun would be useless except at point-blank...which overall means it's useless.

Gulag makes it more heat efficient and useful at brawling ranges. Because it's still pin-point, it's not pigeon-holed into only brawling; it's still useful to peak targets.

[LordNothing]

i still like the idea of giving it some points of splash like the cerppc. say drop the heat down to 10, drop the damage to 11, and then add 3 points of splash. so 11+1.5+1.5. if thats to powerful then drop it to 10+2+2. should be up close and messy.

Edited by LordNothing, 19 March 2021 - 12:10 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

LordNothing, on 19 March 2021 - 12:09 AM, said:

i still like the idea of giving it some points of splash. say drop the heat down to 10, drop the damage to 11, and then add 3 points of splash. so 11+1.5+1.5. if thats to powerful then drop it to 10+2+2.

Gulag drops the heat to 7 on the SN-PPC. It also gives them HSL+1 as a core feature and not a chassis quirk. In the context of Gulag changes, LPL and SN-PPC are comparable, but different.

If I were you, I would not count the current state of the game as anything of permanence. It's nothing more than a temper-tantrum by an insecure, gate-keeping ego-tripper.

[LordNothing]

Y E O N N E, on 18 March 2021 - 10:07 PM, said:

No, no, and no. Crits are not fun, they are frustrating.

Note, every LB-X other than the 10 is useless. The 20 has some niches...but only because the standard AC/20 is also crap. The SN-PPC as a shotgun would be useless except at point-blank...which overall means it's useless.

Gulag makes it more heat efficient and useful at brawling ranges. Because it's still pin-point, it's not pigeon-holed into only brawling; it's still useful to peak targets.

i think the lb5 is the worst. probably the least used autocannons in the game. all the cacs get more use than those (except maybe the cac5, nobody uses those either it seems). the 20 has niches and the clan 2 has bootability. is2 does have that 3x range going for it, but its very hard to fit in is mechs because of how ginormous they are and have no way to boat more than 6 of them.

Edited by LordNothing, 19 March 2021 - 12:14 AM.

[LordNothing]

Y E O N N E, on 19 March 2021 - 12:12 AM, said:

Gulag drops the heat to 7 on the SN-PPC. It also gives them HSL+1 as a core feature and not a chassis quirk. In the context of Gulag changes, LPL and SN-PPC are comparable, but different.

If I were you, I would not count the current state of the game as anything of permanence. It's nothing more than a temper-tantrum by an insecure, gate-keeping ego-tripper.

i think i like the cerppc's ability to counter torso twisting to a degree. if you can bleed damage into an otherwise blocked st or ct you can snake those kills. just thought the is should have that ability on at least one ppc, and the best one i think for that is the snub. its the sawed off shotgun of ppc, it should be a little messy, not a scatter weapon but messy.

Edited by LordNothing, 19 March 2021 - 12:20 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

My preference, I think a couple points of splash would be cool on it, but not at the cost of its PPFLD and not if it also means jacking the heat up from where Gulag put it. Splash is useful, but not that useful.

IMHO, if only one IS PPC should have splash, though, it's the HPPC. Big, meaty thwack in the center and some collateral on the sides. Make it really worth the heat and weight and min-range weakness.

[LordNothing]

Y E O N N E, on 19 March 2021 - 12:48 AM, said:

My preference, I think a couple points of splash would be cool on it, but not at the cost of its PPFLD and not if it also means jacking the heat up from where Gulag put it. Splash is useful, but not that useful.

IMHO, if only one IS PPC should have splash, though, it's the HPPC. Big, meaty thwack in the center and some collateral on the sides. Make it really worth the heat and weight and min-range weakness.

so long as at least one gets it i dont really care. i just want the is to have the option.

[Dauntless Blint]

I like the idea for shotgun palettes, was just imagining 6 LBX-Snub on a KAIJU for instance, wouldn't be as good as a LBX60 Direwolf but it would open up some variety. I think the shotgun spread on the LBX 5's needs to be amended to be "Toit Loik a Toiger" LBX 2 tight.
If something isn't used it just needs tweaking IMO as apposed to just writing it off, everything could be liquid as PTS is coming.
Maybe it could be trialed for fun at any rate. Why use Snubs when ERPPC exists? you could counter with Why use LBX-Snubs when standard LBX exists = because some mech's only have energy hard points. How many (quad?) snub builds are there that are worthy? They're still hot to use.

You don't have to agree with the example, I just hope the vets aren't too fixed in their thinking.
I don't think there will be much push back on anything they come up with and generally the Gulag balance spread sheet sounds like a good idea.

[Yogge Mothi]

Y E O N N E, on 18 March 2021 - 10:07 PM, said:

No, no, and no. Crits are not fun, they are frustrating.

Note, every LB-X other than the 10 is useless. The 20 has some niches...but only because the standard AC/20 is also crap. The SN-PPC as a shotgun would be useless except at point-blank...which overall means it's useless.

Gulag makes it more heat efficient and useful at brawling ranges. Because it's still pin-point, it's not pigeon-holed into only brawling; it's still useful to peak targets.

Thanks for the feedback, but a few notes. I suggested the Snub would NOT be a crit-seeker like the LB-X line. It would be pure damage. For example, you could have 5 3-damage projectiles w/ moderate spread. Within 90m or so, you could easily deal the full 15 damage to a single component on a larger mech. From 90-270m you could hit a component w/ 3-4 of the projectiles and from 270+ you could hit with 1-3 depending on luck of the spread.

Yes, it would make the snub much less effective at peeking, but that's kind of my point. If you want to peek at mid range, go with one of the other 4 IS PPC types. I'm trying to suggest ways to make the PPCs unique. There are no pure-splat energy weapons in the game right now; this would change that. I just think it's worth a try to see if players like the feel of a true energy shotgun.

Edited by Yogge Mothi, 19 March 2021 - 08:07 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

300 meters is not mid range. 200 meters is not mid range.

If you want a crappy gun that slathers it's damage over 4 components ineffectively, just throw an LB-5X into your 'Mech. Uniqueness by itself doesn't earn a weapon a valid role.

[PocketYoda]

Y E O N N E, on 18 March 2021 - 10:07 PM, said:

No, no, and no. Crits are not fun, they are frustrating.

Note, every LB-X other than the 10 is useless. The 20 has some niches...but only because the standard AC/20 is also crap. The SN-PPC as a shotgun would be useless except at point-blank...which overall means it's useless.

Gulag makes it more heat efficient and useful at brawling ranges. Because it's still pin-point, it's not pigeon-holed into only brawling; it's still useful to peak targets.

Nope.. Annihilator with 6x LBX2s is amazing and really heat efficient.

[Y E O N N E]

Samial, on 20 March 2021 - 07:35 AM, said:

Nope.. Annihilator with 6x LBX2s is amazing and really heat efficient.

A Direwolf with 14 ER Micro lasers is also really heat efficient and the LB-2X Anni is amazing at not killing targets as fast as it would if it was running normal AC/2.

[R Valentine]

Snub PPCs got some of the worst of the most recent patch change. In the DPS meta, a DPS nerf is essentially death for a weapon system, especially one with poor range. The snub nose PPC was always intended to be the brawlier version of the PPC, but PGI would rather it be a point blank sniper weapon, which is an oxymoron. Oh well.

[InvictusLee]

I actually really wish clans how their own version of snubs.
It would make my LRM/PPC builds way way more heat viable.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

LordNothing, on 19 March 2021 - 12:09 AM, said:

i still like the idea of giving it some points of splash like the cerppc. say drop the heat down to 10, drop the damage to 11, and then add 3 points of splash. so 11+1.5+1.5. if thats to powerful then drop it to 10+2+2. should be up close and messy.

That would be cool, but unnecessary.

If any of the PPC family weapons should have a short cooldown of like 2.5-4 seconds, it SHOULD be the snub nose.

Being limited to just firing 2, even at a nice 12 damage for 6 tons and 2 slots -- still is limited in its use on medium as you pretty much make a pair of snubs your primary weapon.Thjs leave the rest of your tonnage and limited hardpoints for complimentary weapons or equipment at the cost of any range. Still preferable than taking say an AC20 and honestly gimping your build.

This might work on a medium -- but even on a light mech 12 tons for 2 snubs is asking A LOT!

Having said all that , a 12 ton AC24 is actually really nice with all the cooldown skills taken and the occasional mech quirks making them down to 5 second recycle. Really fun to slap wolf pack lights in the leg or rear torso with.

Edited by 80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie, 22 March 2021 - 08:58 AM.

[LordNothing]

80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie, on 22 March 2021 - 08:52 AM, said:

That would be cool, but unnecessary.

If any of the PPC family weapons should have a short cooldown of like 2.5-4 seconds, it SHOULD be the snub nose.

Being limited to just firing 2, even at a nice 12 damage for 6 tons and 2 slots -- still is limited in its use on medium as you pretty much make a pair of snubs your primary weapon.Thjs leave the rest of your tonnage and limited hardpoints for complimentary weapons or equipment at the cost of any range. Still preferable than taking say an AC20 and honestly gimping your build.

This might work on a medium -- but even on a light mech 12 tons for 2 snubs is asking A LOT!

Having said all that , a 12 ton AC24 is actually really nice with all the cooldown skills taken and the occasional mech quirks making them down to 5 second recycle. Really fun to slap wolf pack lights in the leg or rear torso with.

i should have pointed out that was with the pre-patch cooldown and heat. post patch id just add the splash. also possibly add extra damage for ranges < 90m. a snub with a 14+2+2 point blank damage ramping down to 11+1.5+1.5 at 90. this would make it the most excelent face punch weapon for brawling, without being op through out the rest of its range.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 March 2021 - 10:15 AM.