137 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

DUMAR, on 06 April 2021 - 04:48 PM, said:

Free tonnage is but the removing the requirement for 10 is not

You and several others are still missing how this puts you on the path to Hell.

The argument is poorly thought out.

I even avoided this topic for 2 days to see if anyone figured out why this is a horrible idea, still no mention of the elephant in the room and the cliff it will push you over.

[John Bronco]

Wildstreak, on 08 April 2021 - 11:01 AM, said:

You and several others are still missing how this puts you on the path to Hell.

The argument is poorly thought out.

I even avoided this topic for 2 days to see if anyone figured out why this is a horrible idea, still no mention of the elephant in the room and the cliff it will push you over.

I assume you're referring to what would be the sudden popularity of gauss/ppc mediums?

[MeanMachinE]

Removing the 10 heatsink limit is not an idea where I would put any effort. If you would want to do it properly, it would mean also testing 100 ton mechs with small std60 engines etc. also. I bet there would be walking assault turrets around after this change a lot. Another problem would be with omnimechs. There should also be an option to remove the allocated heatsinks from the omnipods too. This would need some time and effort.

Just forget this idea.

[The6thMessenger]

MeanMachinE, on 08 April 2021 - 11:20 AM, said:

Removing the 10 heatsink limit is not an idea where I would put any effort. If you would want to do it properly, it would mean also testing 100 ton mechs with small std60 engines etc. also. I bet there would be walking assault turrets around after this change a lot. Another problem would be with omnimechs. There should also be an option to remove the allocated heatsinks from the omnipods too. This would need some time and effort.
Just forget this idea.

No other mech but the urbie can put STD60,

Likewise, that's unrealistic. So you're an immobile turret with extremely poor heat dissipation, do you know how ineffective you could be?

The suggestion has can of worms, but your concern isn't it.

[MeanMachinE]

The6thMessenger, on 08 April 2021 - 02:51 PM, said:

The suggestion has can of worms, but your concern isn't it.

Please don't be toxic, the concern is valid. You know, there are new players in the game and those who want to min/max.

[The6thMessenger]

MeanMachinE, on 08 April 2021 - 03:03 PM, said:

Please don't be toxic, the concern is valid. You know, there are new players in the game and those who want to min/max.

No it's not, on both account. It's not toxic to say that you are wrong, don't be sensitive. And don't defend bad builds.

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

MeanMachinE, on 08 April 2021 - 03:03 PM, said:

Please don't be toxic, the concern is valid. You know, there are new players in the game and those who want to min/max.

I hate to agree with Messenger but he is right, your concern has little to it and he isn't being toxic by saying that either.

[RickySpanish]

MeanMachinE, on 08 April 2021 - 03:03 PM, said:

Please don't be toxic, the concern is valid. You know, there are new players in the game and those who want to min/max.

You're among adults my man not Kotaku readers, there's no need to use that sort of language here.

[Axys Rageborn]

Maybe what is needed is mixed "External" heat sinks.

Keep the cost for upgrading the internal HS so they are either single or double internally but allow any external HS to be installed

This could be something to look into in the future as it would help reduce the slot usage but keep the 10 HS required in play.

[PocketYoda]

I want more tonnage for lights.. So no one can use them.

[Kynesis]

Standard heat sinks weigh half-a-ton. Maximum 4 per mech.

[D A T A]

The6thMessenger, on 05 April 2021 - 11:10 PM, said:

I agree. It will allow heavy-ballistic builds on something like the Urbie that doesn't need it.

changing base and generic mechanics to approach specific problems is the issue that caused MWO's downfall, you think a specific mech has an issue? identify the issue, fix the issue.
Don't change a things across the board for all 800 mechs just to address a problem on 5-6 mechs (furthermore, a problem that exists only in your head)

Edited by D A T A, 18 April 2021 - 03:37 AM.

[Goedmaker]

I like the idea of including the 10 heatsinks in sub-250 engines and then adjusting their weights. It wouldn't change much aside from free up a few slots, but that would still make a lot of light mechs easier to build in, and new players wouldn't have to worry about minimum heatsinks.

Some of my light mech builds like my stealth flea or missile urbanmech can't run one of the armor/structure upgrades because of slot limitations, so the change would free up 0.5 to 1 ton for an extra laser or ammo.

[Wildstreak]

John Bronco, on 08 April 2021 - 11:18 AM, said:

I assume you're referring to what would be the sudden popularity of gauss/ppc mediums?

Nope, far worse.

The6thMessenger, on 08 April 2021 - 02:51 PM, said:

No other mech but the urbie can put STD60,

Likewise, that's unrealistic. So you're an immobile turret with extremely poor heat dissipation, do you know how ineffective you could be?

The suggestion has can of worms, but your concern isn't it.

1 - You are not forced to use the STD60, that was a fudge to get the Urbie in game, you know it.
2 - Actually he is on the right track, you must be missing it.

Monke-, on 09 April 2021 - 07:31 AM, said:

I hate to agree with Messenger but he is right, your concern has little to it and he isn't being toxic by saying that either.

Incorrect, while Messenger is not toxic, he is along with others quite possibly ignoring the elephant in the room.
It is a REALLY big elephant.

[The6thMessenger]

Wildstreak, on 19 April 2021 - 07:54 AM, said:

1 - You are not forced to use the STD60, that was a fudge to get the Urbie in game, you know it.

2 - Actually he is on the right track, you must be missing it.

Yes, and? So the **** what? Again if we allow everyone else use the STD60, what would that accomplish? An immobile turret with all of the gauss?

Sure let them do it, but considering that it's not going to be successful build in the first place -- 1 HS with 0KPH on a rifleman, come on. Right track my butt.

What, is it the other spectrum instead? Is he actually concerned that there would be more new players trying to pull off bad builds and it would be annoying because they would be useless? Yeah I figure an immobile mech with all of the LRMs would be an annoying teammate, but I figure they would still be useless sacks even if they were slightly mobile turrets.

Wildstreak, on 19 April 2021 - 07:54 AM, said:

Incorrect, while Messenger is not toxic, he is along with others quite possibly ignoring the elephant in the room.It is a REALLY big elephant.

Dafuq are you talking about? The other guy is literally using emotional blackmail, and as far as I'm concerned Min-Maxing doesn't mean it's a good build, it just means they are specializing -- at times overspecializing.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 April 2021 - 06:47 PM.

[SPNKRGrenth]

Navid A1, on 06 April 2021 - 08:57 AM, said:

I should say that I fully support no min 10 heatsink rule.

But done properly... so that they grant you free slots (since you don't have to equip external ones), not free tonnage.

Honestly this would be a fantastic change, not just for lights, but for some small engine builds for mediums and heavies as well. I'm all in favor of just making all engines have 10 internal heatsinks, and putting the weight back into the engine itself as a result. The end tonnage stays the same, but there's a lot of savings in slots to be had that could be used for fun oddball builds.

It also has the benefit of making mech building slightly less confusing for new players, simplified in a way that avoids dumbing down the overall experience.

[Lanzman]

This thread has become tedious. Would you like to touch my monkey?

[Wildstreak]

John Bronco, on 08 April 2021 - 11:18 AM, said:

I assume you're referring to what would be the sudden popularity of gauss/ppc mediums?

Actually no, there are already those builds in existence. I am referring to this:

1 - Start with a simple looking premise so you can do one thing with one Mech like put a certain build on the UrbanMech. Actually an emotional desire pretending to be reasonable.

2 - To be fair it has to be extended to all other Mechs including Light Clan OmniMechs who all have sub-250 engines thus external DHS that happen to be locked. Fairness right? Unlock the Light Omni DHS.

3 - "But wait," someone says. "If we do that, we have to be fair and unlock all Omni DHS no matter what weight. The poor Summoner (insert whatever omni you think sucks ignoring the good ones)."

4 - "But wait!" another says. "Why stop at DHS? How about that AP in the List Lynx? The MASC (Shadow Cat, Black Lanner, Executioner)? Unlock all the equipment too, be fair!"

5 - "But WAIT!" a third says. "Why not unlock the engine? So tired of my Assault Omnis either moving too slow being easy targets or too fast without room for moar weapons. Fair!"

6 - "LET'S JUST UNLOCK ALL THE THINGS!"

This has come up before over many years.
It is an old and well known point including by people here in favor of changing things.
A simple emotional plea for a certain UrbanMech build becomes a game changing thing.
Nothing to do with TT at all, as usual some people are looking for conspiracies where there are none.