8 replies to this topic

[frog time]

I've been playing this game for a good two days now and managed to slap together what I think is a decent King Crab build; I liked the crustacean aesthetic and saw someone in QP running it with dual rotary 5s so I started there and went with my gut.

Here's the MechDB BB code: KGC-0000

The rotary 5s are the main source of dakka, the medium pulse lasers are backup for additional alpha or when the rotary 5s jam, and the LRM-15 is for long range plinking. After reading a few forum posts I'm been tempted to swap out one or both of the rotary 5s for AC-20s or something equally big and scary to get the most value out of the arm hardpoints. Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated.

Edit: after dying to one too many ammo explosions I have removed the r-ac/5 ammo in the left torso to make room for a double heat sink, which has made it possible to fire both r-ac5's simultaneously without turning the 'mech into a blast furnace.

Edited by frog time, 15 April 2021 - 03:12 PM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Greetings frog time, and welcome to MWO!
Mechbuilding is a critical part of the game here and there is much to be learned, especially when you are brand new.
Personally, I wouldn't have recommended to buy the King Crab (or any assault class 'Mech, really. They are big and slow and easy to pick apart. Good positioning is a key ability of any successful assault player.) to a new player, but since you already have it, let's look over your build. I'll try to adress some major design flaws and give you a brief explanation for each, but keep in mind that I'm not a pro.

• Ferro-Fibrous Armour instead of Endosteel Structure upgrade. Both Ferro and Endo are weight saving upgrades which use 14 slots each, but Ferro returns way less weight savings compared to Endo, especially on assaults. You'll always want to go for Endo over Ferro, unless you already have Endo and still have slots available in your mech (something that you will most likely not see on a properly built assault class mech).
  
• Your build has too much back armour. You'll want to front load it because you should be facing the enemy. If you keep getting shot in the back, you need to revise you positioning, as no amount of back armour will save you from dieing to back-stabbers. My rule of thumb is 10% mechtonnage in armour points to the back of the mech, which is already generous, true pro players run much less.
  
• Ammo distribution. You should store ammo in your legs. Most players don't shoot the legs of heavies or assaults. The head is also a pretty good place to store ammo, since it's not hit very often at all. Also, ammo stored in the head gets used last, so if you lose other components housing ammo, you'll still have some left to shoot back.
  
• Weapon composition. Mechs usually work best when their weapons are focused on a single engagement range and type and use synergies between weaponsystems. Your current loadout has three. RAC5s are mid-to-close-range staredown weapons. MPLs are close-range brawling weapons. LRMs are mid-to long-range lock-on weapons. With these, you'll have to at least use three different weapon groups. It's usually best to focus on two weapon groups.
  
• Mech Geometry. The King Crab has convergence issues with its arm ballistic weapons. They are mounted low and wide. This usually will result in you shooting dirt or having to expose your whole mech out of cover and since you have to lead shots on moving targets, the right arm ballistic will not hit the same spot as the left arm ballistic or misses completely. This is especially noticeable the more distance you have to your target.
  
• Heatmanagement. Your weapons loadout generates a lot of heat, which the current setup will struggle to dissipate. Simply put, you either need more heatsinks or a different weapons composition ballistics (except RACs) usually run rather cold and are a good combination for the hotter energy weapons or missile systems.
  
• Quirks. Your chosen loadout does not benefit from the KGC-0000's main quirks, except for the 10% velocity and the discountable 5% laser duration.

Based on what I said above, I'd start with a simple loadout. Like KGC-0000

• high mounted missile launchers that allow you to engage in mid-range while keeping your mech "hull-down" behind a ridge
  
• good heat management, you could even replace one DHS with a ton of ammo if you find yourself running out of ammo during longer engagements
  
• no convergence issues, since only one ballistic is in use
  
• the LFE350 is a versatile Engine that can be put to good use in many Assault and Heavy builds (engine swapping when CBill-starved is a thing)
  
• this build shines in CQC, use the MRMs to soften enemy targets and then follow with the pinpoit frontloaded damage of the AC20 against weak components

For a different approach, you can try this for example (engine and structure remains unchanged, so it's not a too expensive conversion): KGC-0000

• all weapons high-mounted, no convergence issues at all
  
• TAG will allow you to lock onto ECM or Stealth shielded mechs. You'll want either a thumb button on your mouse that you can press constantly, or setup a macroswitch, because you need to keep the TAG beam trained on your target.
  
• Use your LRMs to soften up the enemy and then follow up with the short bursts of concentrated LPL fire. Rinse and repeat.

I hope my ramblings provided some insights and you find them helpful! Never stop asking, most of us here are always happy to be of assistance.

Edited by Aidan Crenshaw, 16 April 2021 - 12:48 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Give this build a try.

Quite a bit stronger in every aspect.

KGC-0000

[Aidan Crenshaw]

justcallme A S H, on 16 April 2021 - 03:33 AM, said:

Give this build a try.

Quite a bit stronger in every aspect.

KGC-0000

Good one. I run almost the same on my Alpha.

[frog time]

Thanks for all the feedback! I went and switched my initial loadout to use endo-steel instead of ferro-fibrous and managed to swap out the lasers for a much more helpful snubnose PPC, but that'll be a stopgap for now while I properly rework the loadout.
A few comments/responses:
-There seems to be a consensus towards using the missile hardpoints for something more conducive to the KGC's strengths, which seems reasonable; I basically pressured myself into adding LRMs so I wouldn't be completely useless on that one flat snowy map. Changing them out for MRMs could be interesting.
-Ammo in the legs is also a genius idea, thank you! I've gotten ammo-racked a few times in this thing and now I don't need to consider investing in CASE.
-The initial loadout I posted did run rather hot, yes, especially with both RAC5s firing at once. However, after adding another heat sink and learning to fire the RAC5s individually (one fires while the other cools), heat is vastly more manageable.
-Convergence issues, surprisingly, I haven't had trouble with either; a majority of the time I'm only firing one RAC5 at a time anyway, unless I'm facing down another assault at close range. (Using the wide arms to peek around corners is also rather fun.)
-My mouse has two separate thumb buttons so I'm rather comfortable with assigning larger numbers of weapon groups (I was running with 4, each RAC5 had its own group). That said, having the weapons in said weapon groups complement each other properly is solid advice.
-AMS has been an incredibly useful tool to earn free xp from LRM spammers defend myself and my teammates and I'm honestly surprised none of these loadouts bothered to keep it.

From everything I've learned, here's a revamped loadout I've whipped up: KGC-0000
As enticing as the loadout with the twin Ultra AC/10s was, I can't bring myself to give up the deliciously satisfying BRRRT of the RAC5s just yet, but nonetheless I think this'll be a vast improvement. Again, thanks for all the tips!

[Horseman]

frog time, on 16 April 2021 - 07:48 AM, said:

-The initial loadout I posted did run rather hot, yes, especially with both RAC5s firing at once. However, after adding another heat sink and learning to fire the RAC5s individually (one fires while the other cools), heat is vastly more manageable.

If you're only able to fire part of your main armament, your mech is not performing at full capacity. Heat is a resource, not a penalty - slaughter the enemy, then cool down.

Quote

-My mouse has two separate thumb buttons so I'm rather comfortable with assigning larger numbers of weapon groups (I was running with 4, each RAC5 had its own group). That said, having the weapons in said weapon groups complement each other properly is solid advice.

Generally, you should be looking at being able to engage your mech's full offensive potential using at most two groups (ideally, one). Anything past that is for convenience.

[frog time]

Horseman, on 18 April 2021 - 09:13 AM, said:

If you're only able to fire part of your main armament, your mech is not performing at full capacity. Heat is a resource, not a penalty - slaughter the enemy, then cool down.
Generally, you should be looking at being able to engage your mech's full offensive potential using at most two groups (ideally, one). Anything past that is for convenience.

This is some very solid advice, thank you! I've attempted to implement it in my latest revision- KGC-0000 -but I'm still just a bit shy of what I'd like. I finally gave up the RAC/5s, and so far the AC/20s are much more forgiving with regards to heat, but the PPCs aren't so much. I'm thinking about swapping back to MRMs for a cooler build that'll allow me to trade out a heatsink for a larger engine.

[Horseman]

frog time, on 19 April 2021 - 08:43 AM, said:

This is some very solid advice, thank you! I've attempted to implement it in my latest revision- KGC-0000 -but I'm still just a bit shy of what I'd like. I finally gave up the RAC/5s, and so far the AC/20s are much more forgiving with regards to heat, but the PPCs aren't so much. I'm thinking about swapping back to MRMs for a cooler build that'll allow me to trade out a heatsink for a larger engine.

One UAC20 instead of 2xAC20. Similar damage output, but much less tonnage. Alternatively, 2xUAC10 for better range (but yea, that's again fighting KGC's barn door body).
Try swapping the LPPCs for SPPCs, more in sync with your 20s and more heat-efficient damage after yesterday's patch.
Drop the Endo, install a Light Fusion Engine. This also gives your space for three more heat sinks in the body.

The tonnage savings on Endo aren't automatically worth it, sometimes the extra space helps more.

[frog time]

Horseman, on 20 April 2021 - 10:43 PM, said:

One UAC20 instead of 2xAC20. Similar damage output, but much less tonnage. Alternatively, 2xUAC10 for better range (but yea, that's again fighting KGC's barn door body).
Try swapping the LPPCs for SPPCs, more in sync with your 20s and more heat-efficient damage after yesterday's patch.
Drop the Endo, install a Light Fusion Engine. This also gives your space for three more heat sinks in the body.

The tonnage savings on Endo aren't automatically worth it, sometimes the extra space helps more.

Honestly i've always been antsy about ultras, especially putting them on a 100-ton assault mech where you can't exactly duck and cover if they jam mid-brawl. That said, the damage output is just too enticing, so since I can't bear to dead-arm the king crab and its really cool claw arms, I stuck two UAC20s on it and sprinkled on the rest of your advice as well. Haven't gotten to test it in game yet, but in the testing range it seems to utterly shred everything as long as nothing jams and I keep an eye on heat.
KGC-0000