32 replies to this topic

[General Solo]

pbiggz, on 21 April 2021 - 11:00 AM, said:

so you're admitting your crusade against groups in the queue is entirely because you personally don't like them or how they play, and any other argument you make amounts to nothing more than a post-hoc rationalization.

Noted, we're moving on now.

Where did I say that
Where is your citation
Evidence mang, where is it

My evidence is a bunch of dead or dieing queues

Group Queue - dead
Solaris - not removed from the game like group que but not many play it
FW- Dead compared to what is was, before casuals including casual groups got sick of being farmed

[justcallme A S H]

General Solo, on 21 April 2021 - 10:10 AM, said:

So group queue died because Russ announced maintaince mode!
I have to say I disagree!
Why didn't Solo que die!

Or soloaris or FW
Opps...nvm they are dead or deadish
Due to skillgap

Of course you're free to disagree. Just like Flat Earthers who disagree that the world is round.

Skill Gap has existed in every game since the dawn of creation. The same skill gap exists in QuickPlay it is just less evident when there are 12 people running around with negligeble coordinating and synergy.

The fact is GroupQ died because the population went down the toilet. Once the spiral started it didn't take all that long as people were fed up waiting. You can literally see the months I stopped doing GQ because wait times went up which directly correlates to population drops.

Skill gap didn't nuke GQ, 30min wait times did.

SoloQ didn't die because it is the last mode, the core mode, left. It's not that hard to work out if you've been paying attention.

[pbiggz]

justcallme A S H, on 21 April 2021 - 02:01 PM, said:

Of course you're free to disagree. Just like Flat Earthers who disagree that the world is round.

Skill Gap has existed in every game since the dawn of creation. The same skill gap exists in QuickPlay it is just less evident when there are 12 people running around with negligeble coordinating and synergy.

The fact is GroupQ died because the population went down the toilet. Once the spiral started it didn't take all that long as people were fed up waiting. You can literally see the months I stopped doing GQ because wait times went up which directly correlates to population drops.

Skill gap didn't nuke GQ, 30min wait times did.

SoloQ didn't die because it is the last mode, the core mode, left. It's not that hard to work out if you've been paying attention.

For this particular brand of mech dad, there needs to be reasons why their mixed weapon battletech special build didn't work out, other than them being bad at the mech lab and clicking heads. Men especially spend alot of time rationalizing reasons why they might have failed at whatever endeavor they were up to (this is well studied) and mech dads who cant click heads are no exception. Homer here, loses too much, and he's looking for a reason why. He doesn't like groups, so it might as well be them.

[justcallme A S H]

pbiggz, on 21 April 2021 - 05:58 PM, said:

Homer here, loses too much, and he's looking for a reason why. He doesn't like groups, so it might as well be them.

I've got some time spare today so going to unpack the posts cause I an interested in stuff like this and what are the actual underlying issues.

General Solo, on 21 April 2021 - 10:31 AM, said:

Groups don't worry me. Having the game die is what worries me.

Homers WLR and overall stats are largely unchanged in a pre and post Q merger world. Statistically speaking it's had next to no impact on him. In fact it's had no impact on the playerbase as the playerbase has grown around 70%

It appears the point was Groups in the Solo Q would(are) have a negative impact because of skill gap.
MergeQ has been in place for 9 months now. The population has been rising almost the entire time. The clear evidence proves that concern never eventuated.

I still am not a fan of the MergeQ as stomps at the Elite level were going to increase and they did. It makes the game far less of a challenge no matter what I play (even a XL RAC/LRM Atlas). Less than 2% of the 22k active players a month fit into the elite umbrella. Even less of them group so the net result is just nowhere near what was expected.

So all the numbers say he was wrong. Where is this coming from?

The actual reason was buried in one of the posts.

General Solo, on 21 April 2021 - 10:31 AM, said:

I have never been in so much trouble with PGI as I have since the merge queue. Suspending twice, before merge zip. That should tell you how passionate I am about the issue.

So he was against the merger and was very outspoken about it in ways that appear to have got him in some hot water at PGI HQ (something I know all to well about).

Rather than wising up it would appear he's kept going. This is all the basis of something happening that, well, never did. Skill gap and MergeQ have not impacted the game - that is indisputible regardless of ones view.

I say just accept you were wrong and move on, not much point barking up the wrong tree anymore as the next few months even more people are coming back, more players, more games. Embrace it and enjoy it!

Edited by justcallme A S H, 21 April 2021 - 07:31 PM.

[General Solo]

justcallme A S H, on 21 April 2021 - 02:01 PM, said:

Of course you're free to disagree. Just like Flat Earthers who disagree that the world is round.

Skill Gap has existed in every game since the dawn of creation. The same skill gap exists in QuickPlay it is just less evident when there are 12 people running around with negligeble coordinating and synergy.

The fact is GroupQ died because the population went down the toilet. Once the spiral started it didn't take all that long as people were fed up waiting. You can literally see the months I stopped doing GQ because wait times went up which directly correlates to population drops.

Skill gap didn't nuke GQ, 30min wait times did.

SoloQ didn't die because it is the last mode, the core mode, left. It's not that hard to work out if you've been paying attention.

Firstly the flat earthers were in the majority, very few realised the earth was round, so what is your point apart from trying to neg me.

Back to the topic

Yes skillgap exists in all pvp games, but in all cases size does matter, size of the skillgap that is.

A game with 24 99% players is different to a game, where one side is stacked with 99% T1 player group against a bunch of T3 solo players as this match maker allows.

At least in solo queue players had to sync drop to get that stacked advantage.

And yes group que died coz as you say population when downhill, of course hahahaha.
If population didn't go down, it would not be dead , lol
But you fail to mention why it went down.
Not very sciencey and a bit evasive.

Franky I don't think you thought this through guid.

I think it was due to skill gap, you can read my previous posts about this, so I won't repeat it again

And solo queue died because it was merged, not due to no players or 30 minute wait times as skill gap was less that the group queues, thought it was pretty high due to lack of lack of timely PSR resets for a long time.

So far every thing you said was wrong or evasive.

But then again recently you posted that players in lower tiers don't shoot and thats why games their last 10 minutes plus

FYI, if they did not shoot every game would be 15 minutes long not 10 plus.

Stop spreading misinformation to suit your agenda.

[General Solo]

pbiggz, on 21 April 2021 - 05:58 PM, said:

For this particular brand of mech dad, there needs to be reasons why their mixed weapon battletech special build didn't work out, other than them being bad at the mech lab and clicking heads. Men especially spend alot of time rationalizing reasons why they might have failed at whatever endeavor they were up to (this is well studied) and mech dads who cant click heads are no exception. Homer here, loses too much, and he's looking for a reason why. He doesn't like groups, so it might as well be them.

Oh its you again
I thought we were done?

Thats a lot of accusations your throwing around
Do you have a screen shot of said builds, lol

I guess you are supporting your mate Ash, with a non science negging , unconstructive, unpostive post.

Nothing to see here, expect your normal behaviour.

I should ask were did I touch you to earn your wrath.

[General Solo]

justcallme A S H, on 21 April 2021 - 07:30 PM, said:

It appears the point was Groups in the Solo Q would(are) have a negative impact because of skill gap.
MergeQ has been in place for 9 months now. The population has been rising almost the entire time. The clear evidence proves that concern never eventuated.

Sure the numbers did rise due to many players returning so they could play with their friends, without getting rekt in group or faction queues.

Solo players are much less threatening.

But how long will it last this player boom.

https://steamcharts.com/app/342200

I sincerely hope I am wrong, as I don't want the game to die.

But I have seen the enough queues die due to imo skillgap,
that I must speak my views

Even if they are unpopular.

[justcallme A S H]

General Solo, on 21 April 2021 - 08:59 PM, said:

And yes group que died coz as you say population when downhill, of course hahahaha. If population didn't go down, it would not be dead , lol
But you fail to mention why it went down. Not very sciencey and a bit evasive.

Franky I don't think you thought this through guid.

I think it was due to skill gap, you can read my previous posts about this, so I won't repeat it again.

If you don't recall why the population dropped - well - Let's me help you remember. Up until Mid 2016 GroupQ was bustling along. Low wait times all the time, even in Oceanic.

2016 - The start of the slope
June 2016 - Mech rescale. Mechs got fat. Really fat. This was a huge point of contention, most players were unhappy as their mechs and TTK went down the toilet. It was an atrocious time for the game and many players quit. 1,000s.of players lost interest and left the game.

2017 - The deathbell rings
Skill Tree and Engine Desync. This was the straw that broke many who while unhappy about Rescale, stuck around. My own unit at the time - 54MR went from 120 active players to 30 within 2 months to July '17. The last slid away over the next couple months. You had MercStar, a 600-700 strong unit quite literally gone overnight. There was under 100 active within 3 months. It was a dark year for MWOs population. What was left of the higher end skill of the playerbase quits/leaves the game after Mechcon 2017.

People briefly came back May 2018 - Solaris City map launch. It then really fell on its face harder than ever.

You can plot these Events vs Population on the publicly available data. After Mech Rescale GroupQ took a sizeable hit. Wait times went up. After Skill Tree/Desync you could wait 30mins for a single GroupQ match. It was regular and I did it more times than I'd care to admit.

From mid 2019 till Feb 2020 wait times were regularly 15mins for a SOLO Quick Play drop. It got so.bad I simply stopped playing and streaming. I'd do Faction Play on a Sat afternoon (Friday NA evening) and that was it.

Now the Qs merged, population is up. Wait times are down and both continue to improve. If skill gap is the problem you claim - why isn't your prediction coming true? Why is the reverse happening?

The reverse is happening because skill gap isn't the reason it dropped in the first place. If you have proof that definitively proves me wrong - post it up. Otherwise stop the nonsense dude.

[Gagis]

Long Tom and other ways FW failed to meet expectations also led many units to disband, reducing player numbers for GQ indirectly as well. Moreover, the reason Group Queue was so sensitive to population drop is that it never had a working matchmaker in the first place. Let me explain how this works:

Say you have a group of 5 players and a group of 4 players in queue.

No one knows they are there. Time passes.

Maybe a group of 8 players comes along, but we are still short 7 players to be able to launch.

No one knows they are there. Time passes.

Another group of 8 comes along, but 8, 8, 4 and 5 cannot be combined to 12+12. The match cannot be made.

No one knows they are there. Time passes.

Lucky break! Instead of any other size of group, another group of 4 shows up out of nowhere. A MATCH IS MADE! But wait, the original group of 5 does not fit in either team.

No one knows they are there. Time passes.

A group of 12 enters queue, but everyone from the original group of 5 got tired of waiting for hours and quit MWO.

No one knows they are there. Time passes.

Several hours later there is a group of 6, a group of 7, a group of 8, a group of 9, a group of 10 and a group of 12 in the queue. 52 players, and it does not add up to a match.

No one knows they are there. Time passes.

All this could be averted with a 8v8 group queue that you can opt in to by launching as a "group of one".

Edited by Gagis, 21 April 2021 - 11:11 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Oh yeah I totally forgot about Long Tom as well... That nuked FP good and proper and took 6-7 months to back out if memory serves. By which time FP specific units were long gone as well.

That was just before Rescale by a couple of months. So some really really huge slashes in 2016.

[PocketYoda]

Monkey Lover, on 21 April 2021 - 12:14 AM, said:

oh crap..... PGI addresses issues by removing them.....

Lets hope so.

[pbiggz]

Let's have a chat.

First, a little breakdown of facts.

A: Your interests are selfish, but you're dressing them up as though you're being altruistic. You wouldn't care about this at all if there was a solo only queue for you to ignore groups in.

General Solo, on 21 April 2021 - 10:31 AM, said:

If I had a solo que, I would not care what groups do, as was the case when solo que was around.

B: You choose not to drop in groups because you think, or you want to look like you're being virtuous. It's an act of protest. You "did not want to contribute to the games/queue demise".

General Solo, on 21 April 2021 - 10:31 AM, said:

I stop playing group due to skillgap as with my 300 IQ I knew it was bad for the game, and I did not want to contribute to the games/queue demise.

C: You used to run with a a toxic group. Instead of just leaving that group, and joining another, you've decided to make the assumption that every group player in the entire community must be the same kind of predatory toxic, (an entirely irrational and frankly insulting assumption)...

General Solo, on 21 April 2021 - 10:31 AM, said:

Plus I got sick/disgusted of my team mates saying "Lets go rekt some pugs"
Edit: When they see EMP they cry, lol

...therefore, playing exclusively alone is, to you, again, an act of virtue and protest. You actively degrade your own experience because you have a saviour complex for the "solo only" player that doesn't exist outside of your head.

General Solo, on 21 April 2021 - 10:31 AM, said:

So I went solo que exclusive.

Now, as we have heard from ash, your w/l ratio, and in fact the w/l ratio of much of the playerbase is unchanged, before and after the queues were merged. This is a certifiable fact, recorded as hard data, not something i think happened, so despite your quibbling, its not up for debate.

justcallme A S H, on 21 April 2021 - 07:30 PM, said:

Homers WLR and overall stats are largely unchanged in a pre and post Q merger world. Statistically speaking it's had next to no impact on him. In fact it's had no impact on the playerbase as the playerbase has grown around 70%

Given this certifiable fact, the entirety of the claim you've made that groups have ruined the queue for you, or anyone else is literally a fiction. It's simply not true.

General Solo, on 21 April 2021 - 10:31 AM, said:

And then the groups followed me to solo que and rekt it.

Thats why I'm angry

So you have to understand that you get pushback in every thread you visit because this claim is literally fictional at best, and filled with hate at worst. People that play with their friends, myself included, do not like being accused of ruining the entire game, because we play it in a way that you personally don't like because you once had a bad experience with a group.

General Solo, on 21 April 2021 - 08:59 PM, said:

And yes group que died coz as you say population when downhill, of course hahahaha.
If population didn't go down, it would not be dead , lol
But you fail to mention why it went down.
Not very sciencey and a bit evasive.

Franky I don't think you thought this through guid.

I think it was due to skill gap, you can read my previous posts about this, so I won't repeat it again

It doesn't matter if you think population decline was caused by skill gap. The chronology set out by ash here, proves that claim isnt true.

justcallme A S H, on 21 April 2021 - 10:15 PM, said:

If you don't recall why the population dropped - well - Let's me help you remember. Up until Mid 2016 GroupQ was bustling along. Low wait times all the time, even in Oceanic.

2016 - The start of the slope
June 2016 - Mech rescale. Mechs got fat. Really fat. This was a huge point of contention, most players were unhappy as their mechs and TTK went down the toilet. It was an atrocious time for the game and many players quit. 1,000s.of players lost interest and left the game.

2017 - The deathbell rings
Skill Tree and Engine Desync. This was the straw that broke many who while unhappy about Rescale, stuck around. My own unit at the time - 54MR went from 120 active players to 30 within 2 months to July '17. The last slid away over the next couple months. You had MercStar, a 600-700 strong unit quite literally gone overnight. There was under 100 active within 3 months. It was a dark year for MWOs population. What was left of the higher end skill of the playerbase quits/leaves the game after Mechcon 2017.

People briefly came back May 2018 - Solaris City map launch. It then really fell on its face harder than ever.

You can plot these Events vs Population on the publicly available data. After Mech Rescale GroupQ took a sizeable hit. Wait times went up. After Skill Tree/Desync you could wait 30mins for a single GroupQ match. It was regular and I did it more times than I'd care to admit.

From mid 2019 till Feb 2020 wait times were regularly 15mins for a SOLO Quick Play drop. It got so.bad I simply stopped playing and streaming. I'd do Faction Play on a Sat afternoon (Friday NA evening) and that was it.

Now the Qs merged, population is up. Wait times are down and both continue to improve. If skill gap is the problem you claim - why isn't your prediction coming true? Why is the reverse happening?

The reverse is happening because skill gap isn't the reason it dropped in the first place. If you have proof that definitively proves me wrong - post it up. Otherwise stop the nonsense dude.

Your entire argument relies on the notion that group players in the solo queue is reducing the population of solo queue.

The queue is not dropping in population. As ash has demonstrated, its growing, so your doomsday scenario is literally fictional.

Every argument you've made has been anecdote, and hearsay, from someone who had a bad experience with a group, and instead of having a rational reaction, swore off of ever playing a multiplayer game with another human ever again.

Every word that comes out of your mouth is a lie, so take your own advice.

General Solo, on 21 April 2021 - 08:59 PM, said:

Stop spreading misinformation to suit your agenda.

And for the record,

General Solo, on 21 April 2021 - 08:59 PM, said:

Firstly the flat earthers were in the majority, very few realised the earth was round, so what is your point apart from trying to neg me.

Eratsothenes, the chief librarian of Alexandria, who was born over 2000 years ago calculated nearly accurately the circumference of the earth, so the claim that nobody knew the earth was round, is also a fiction.

Edited by pbiggz, 22 April 2021 - 05:20 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Monkey Lover, on 21 April 2021 - 12:14 AM, said:

oh crap..... PGI addresses issues by removing them.....

Ahh, have you forgotten of whom you are referencing? PGI could very well address the issue by removing Soup queue minimum requirements by allowing more than 1 (4-man) or 2 groups per team, regardless of size. Right now it is setup for 1*4-man or 3+2-man or 2+2-man....

Why? PGI has their "previous" data and aware that a separate Group queue would become an almost empty queue.

With that said, the long wait times for some could also be based on how teams are formed up. Are groups seeded first then the solo players, ie largest group is seeded first?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 22 April 2021 - 06:48 AM.