167 replies to this topic

[CaptainKraken]

As the title says the "Nascar" gameplay is killing this game, change my mind!

So after being gone for many year I decided to give the game a try again. After about 400 matches I can honestly say that the one thing that is ruining this game is the play style that so many choose to adopt. This is a game based around big mechs that fight each other yet everyone throws this idea out the window and proceeds to run around in circles instead of actually fighting with their mechs.

The outcome of doing the "Nascar" strategy comes down to a few things.
1. Who has the number advantage
2. Who is faster

That's it.

If a few people on a team dies while in the middle of a Nascar you basically lose because once you do eventually meet up (which you do), you are at a numbers and ton disadvantage. This also negates an entire weight class for your team most of the time because your assaults' get left behind making easier targets for the lights/mediums coming around the other side. You basically hang an entire weight class out to dry, and for what? Like I already stated, you eventually meet up. So why make it more difficult on your heavier teammates by running in a circle instead of just grouping up and fighting (what the point of the game is) in the first place. Not to mention the heavier mechs generally carry the most firepower so by running off and leaving them behind to die you essentially just cost your team a ton of actual damage. Also why you are moving the heavier mechs cant afford to shoot because that would slow them down even more than they already. Its a viscous cycle.

This also causes newer players to think twice about getting heavier mechs. They join the game, play a few matches and find out that no matter what firepower you bring if your team runs off you are screwed. This then causes them to not try heavier mechs and instead get lighter ones to join in to this game style since that's what most players do. If they then find out that they don't enjoy the lighter mechs then you just lost a player, which in turn doesn't grow the community.

The worst part of all of this is the higher you go in the tiers the worse this gets at least from what I'm experiencing. More and more people "Nascar" and when the game ends if you don't get enough damage or die early because you couldn't keep up, you become the bad player and get flamed. Ultimately this is because the "Nascar" but no one will admit it because then that would mean that the strategy they chose was bad and if there is anything I've learned from the past 400 games is that everyone makes the right calls all the time and you are wrong if you think otherwise.

So if you are one of those players that choose to engage in this style of gameplay change my mind. Explain to me how limiting your firepower and potentially losing multiple mechs is worth running around in a circle to inevitably fight anyway instead of just grouping up and focus firing as a group.

Edited by CaptainKraken, 24 April 2021 - 07:11 AM.

[martian]

My favorite topic is here!

[D A T A]

nascar is a problem, it always was since turbo-brawl became the meta
we are trying to address it through
-weapon rebalance (mid-long ranged weapons less crap)
-agility rebalance (mechs actually able to peek and move, rather than just nascar because the only good stuff is short range meta and mechs can not peek)
-spawn redesign (spawns placed like **** force nascar)
-maybe map redesign later on in the future (some maps have big central objects like canyon or manifold and people just rotate around them)

Edited by D A T A, 24 April 2021 - 07:22 AM.

[John Bronco]

CaptainKraken, on 24 April 2021 - 07:10 AM, said:

So if you are one of those players that choose to engage in this style of gameplay change my mind. Explain to me how limiting your firepower and potentially losing multiple mechs is worth running around in a circle

Going fast is cool, and nascar always wins.

[CaptainKraken]

John Bronco, on 24 April 2021 - 07:25 AM, said:

Going fast is cool, and nascar always wins.

This is only because that's what everyone does. If both teams Nascar then of course Nascar wins because that's the only option that was presented. I will say that I have yet to see a Nascar run into a full firing line of an entire team and come out the other end victorious. With that being said, like I already stated, why not do that in the first place?

D A T A, on 24 April 2021 - 07:20 AM, said:

nascar is a problem, it always was since turbo-brawl became the meta
we are trying to address it through
-weapon rebalance (mid-long ranged weapons less crap)
-agility rebalance (mechs actually able to peek and move, rather than just nascar because the only good stuff is short range meta and mechs can not peek)
-spawn redesign (spawns placed like **** force nascar)
-maybe map redesign later on in the future (some maps have big central objects like canyon or manifold and people just rotate around them)

While I get that and appreciate the changes, this is a player/community issue IMO. The game doesn't force anyone to Nascar. There hasn't been one map that I have been on and thought "man the only way that we can win this is Nascar because of how the map is designed". The players choose to run this strategy. If they stop doing it then the problem goes away. Instead developers are forced to accommodate and fix things based on a playstyle instead of putting their time into developing new content. This slows down game progression and like I said forces new players out if they don't like that playstyle. It just amazes me that as a community we could all say stop nascar'ing and the problem goes away, yet instead people continue to do it and then force the developers to make the change happen.

Edited by CaptainKraken, 24 April 2021 - 07:35 AM.

[John Bronco]

CaptainKraken, on 24 April 2021 - 07:35 AM, said:

This is only because that's what everyone does. If both teams Nascar then of course Nascar wins because that's the only option that was presented. I will say that I have yet to see a Nascar run into a full firing line of an entire team and come out the other end victorious. With that being said, like I already stated, why not do that in the first place?

I'm impressed how quickly you figured this out, however, if only one team is doing it then it isn't nascar - it's just a bad flank.

[CaptainKraken]

John Bronco, on 24 April 2021 - 07:40 AM, said:

I'm impressed how quickly you figured this out, however, if only one team is doing it then it isn't nascar - it's just a bad flank.

AGREED! It only takes 1 team to decide not to do it and actually fight. If that were to happen over the course of games within say a couple of months, the problem would go away for the most part. Its on the community to make this better. If people want the developers to make better content they have to have time and resources to do it. Resources come from more players/happy current ones and the time comes from not having to deal with issues like these.

[Nomad5926]

CaptainKraken, on 24 April 2021 - 07:48 AM, said:

AGREED! It only takes 1 team to decide not to do it and actually fight. If that were to happen over the course of games within say a couple of months, the problem would go away for the most part. Its on the community to make this better. If people want the developers to make better content they have to have time and resources to do it. Resources come from more players/happy current ones and the time comes from not having to deal with issues like these.

The problem is when only half the team decides to fight and the other half is Mute-yMcNeverTalk and just charges forward blindly. Now you only have half a firing line.
Honestly I'm glad the devs are looking into fixing this ( I hope), but really it's the player base that's the issue. And there really is no way to fix it outside of the devs changing things. People like going brrrrttt.

That being said, I am getting real tired of asking teams not to nascar and give some other strategies only to have them nascar into oblivion. I've lost so many games because of it, playing solo is basically impossible.

[justcallme A S H]

I play Anti-NASCAR in a Group or Solo (and use in-game comms).

7.0 WLR this season and average of 3.0++

I guess giving the big THONK to the red-team as they come around a corner 1-by-1-by-1 works?

Give it a shot and if you slap it hard and often enough, eventually, the player base will increase its intelligence.

[FupDup]

Nascar is derpy, but your listed downside of "players think twice about picking a big mech" is actually a good thing in my mind. One of the things MWO has done right is allowing mechs under 65 tons to actually pose a threat and be viable. If the game was about static firing lines then the mobility advantage of mediums and lights would be entirely pointless and there would be no drawback to just picking the biggest possible mechs all the time.

[Maugged]

Nascar is a valid strategy as many others. Frontlines are not static and people will always be looking for ways to destroy other mechs before being destroyed themselves, mostly by flanking. I'd rather have a nascaring team than a team who sits in a bowl waiting to be surrounded and shredded from all sides.

Edited by Maugged, 24 April 2021 - 08:42 AM.

[pbiggz]

Edited by pbiggz, 24 April 2021 - 08:51 AM.

[Nightbird]

Unless you're in a group good enough to make any strategy work, you Nascar where you have your faster mechs flank and your slower mechs hold the enemy back in a hammer and anvil maneuver. The use of this tactic is documented throughout ancient to modern history. https://en.wikipedia...ammer_and_anvil

Nascar is a derogatory name given to it because it happens too often and get boring, but that doesn't diminish it's role in history as a valid tactic.

Edited by Nightbird, 24 April 2021 - 01:06 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

I would argue that Hammer & Anvil is not NASCAR. NASCAR is what you get when the anvil focuses on following the hammer through the flank, thus failing to do its job as an anvil and ruining the strategy as a result.

[VeeOt Dragon]

honestly i have stopped trying to call tactics anymore. no one listens. in my experience (been playing off and on for 3 or 4 years now maybe more can't remember) the first team to stop the nascar is the first team to win the match. one thing i often do when in an Assault and i can see the nascar loss coming (i can often predict if its going to be a win or loss rather early in the match by watching what my team is doing on the mini map) i simply turn around and hit the enemy in the face. if i'm luck i slow them down a bit and let my team catch up and do some damgage if not well i die so i simply back out of the match and move on to the next one.

as someone already mentioned tactics seem to be something that people abandon in QP after the reach about T2. with the PSR reset we are getting the T1s and T2s in with the lower tiers so you just see even more nascar. (there has also been a lack of people willing to scratch their paint lately. i had one day not to long ago were i had something like 12 losses in a row were all but like 3 players had under 100 damage dealt. (something i like to say in those matches is "when i'm the top damage dealer on the team you know you done ****** up", i'm an average player at best normally doing between 350 and 550 a match when i am in something other than one of my LRM boats))

[Bud Crue]

justcallme A S H, on 24 April 2021 - 08:32 AM, said:

I play Anti-NASCAR in a Group or Solo (and use in-game comms).

7.0 WLR this season and average of 3.0++

I guess giving the big THONK to the red-team as they come around a corner 1-by-1-by-1 works?

Give it a shot and if you slap it hard and often enough, eventually, the player base will increase its intelligence.

One of the on going jokes when me and my fellows get Caustic, especially when there are a bunch of assaults in the left most dz, I will call out "Look at where our assaults are! Lets anti-Nascar!" and then call out the appropriate grid coordinate in the the team chat. Then all of my fellows in our group will call out something along the lines of "yes", "roger", "great idea", etc. to reinforce that others are on board with this, but then comes the funny part (not really). EVERY TIME, us and maybe a few others start to head for the intercept position, but about half way there everyone, every single player not in our 3-4man, starts drifting to the right and then starts to NASCAR hard; every time. It's fine (sometimes it turns into a "Hammer and Anvil" situation, but mostly just devolves into the usual chaos of a stomp), but the consistency is just flabbergasting.

[Meep Meep]

Using chat or voip to convince your team to nascar to the left instead of right and to form up in a firing line when you run into their nascar is typically a game winner as has been stated earlier. Success rates for actually getting them to do that however remain low in quick play. As always your best bet at a win is either lance up or play the mobile mechs you do well in.

[Nightbird]

Y E O N N E, on 24 April 2021 - 01:26 PM, said:

I would argue that Hammer & Anvil is not NASCAR. NASCAR is what you get when the anvil focuses on following the hammer through the flank, thus failing to do its job as an anvil and ruining the strategy as a result.

The Anvil is allowed to move. It is simply the slower moving of the two elements that either stalls or slows down the enemy force.

[Y E O N N E]

Nightbird, on 24 April 2021 - 02:14 PM, said:

The Anvil is allowed to move. It is simply the slower moving of the two elements that either stalls or slows down the enemy force.

Y E O N N E, on 24 April 2021 - 01:26 PM, said:

I would argue that Hammer & Anvil is not NASCAR. NASCAR is what you get when the anvil focuses on following the hammer through the flank, thus failing to do its job as an anvil and ruining the strategy as a result.

I didn't say they can't move, I implied they should not making movement their priority action.

[Nightbird]

Y E O N N E, on 24 April 2021 - 02:26 PM, said:

I didn't say they can't move, I implied they should not making movement their priority action.

The Anvil is not following the Hammer, they are simply moving together until contact with the enemy. Your misunderstanding is understandable.