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Same Tonnage For Is And Clans In Faction Play


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#41 Duke Falcon

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Posted 26 August 2021 - 09:27 AM

Current tonnage brackets are good IMO. While I often think meta IS builds OP that is because of my still evolving skills ingame. I recently spectate and I must admit that good enough players in omnis could be more than equal to IS metas general. That is for game-wise.

...

For lore-wise? Clans use units based on the system of 5. 12 mechs for clans? Maybe solahma units. So lore-wise a 10 vs 12 seems legit where the tonnage brackets are the same and slightly raised. Why? Have you seen what could clan assaults do with long-range exclusive builds? Even I with my sh**ty skills could score ~500 damage with a 4xcER-PPC Executioner (if heat-bug not occurs of course). Clan mechs still have a range\damage advantage for a better tons\crits price.

...

Overall? Left things unchanged. Tonnage adjustments would not solve the FP's problems. More players and quicker enter into games could. Currently one may need to wait 10-40 mins to get into a match. THAT must be fixed before one may think about tinkering tonnage\dropdeck stuffs. FP slowly became as scarce as Solaris and if this not haunts you then this game doomed a sorrowfull end...

Edited by Duke Falcon, 26 August 2021 - 09:28 AM.


#42 tee5

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 09:40 AM

9 months later and still nothing happened.

Come on PGI it's changing a 3 digit number in a XML-Sheet or in the ProgrammCode.


var_dropdecklimit_CLANS:private = 265


You can do it.

#43 Walt Urizeman

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 06:59 PM

I support the lowering of the tonnage idea too. 240 would be great, like it was at the start if I remember right

#44 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 07:32 PM

View Posttee5, on 19 January 2022 - 09:40 AM, said:

9 months later and still nothing happened.

Come on PGI it's changing a 3 digit number in a XML-Sheet or in the ProgrammCode.


var_dropdecklimit_CLANS:private = 265


You can do it.

MWO has only a Handfull Crewmember ,and EG7 take away the talented Guys for own Projects like Lord of the Rings , and stop each further Support for MW5 while not ENOUGH Profit,so the Handfull Guys and Girls doing her best on to many Construction Sides and a ancient heavy modified Gameengine, tahts have lost all Know How and Secrets with her Coders and Programmers in teh Years 2014 to 2016 and the great exodus

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 19 January 2022 - 07:36 PM.


#45 feeWAIVER

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 09:34 PM

Off Topic:
Spoiler

Edited by feeWAIVER, 19 January 2022 - 09:56 PM.


#46 John Bronco

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 10:46 PM

240 for each side. go.

#47 tee5

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Posted 20 January 2022 - 07:24 AM

I really don't care about the hight of the tonnage limit. As long as its the same for IS AND CLAN.

Since CAULDRON is balancing all so fair that everyone has fun and has fair matches, then let's have the same tonnage for IS AND CLAN.

@ Waldorf....: Changing the droplimit for Clans should not be so complicated. And should not have to do something with the complicated Cry-Engine stuff.

#48 Hobbles v

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Posted 20 January 2022 - 08:12 AM

Definitely lower and equal. 240 or 250 would be good. FP has too many assault mechs, it leads to slow games. So many now run the whole clock. Years ago with lower limits the pace of play was quicker.

#49 NPC SLAYER

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Posted 20 January 2022 - 09:40 AM

245-235 tons feels like a good balance. No real reasons for IS to have an advantage any longer.

Edited by NPC SLAYER, 20 January 2022 - 09:41 AM.


#50 justcallme A S H

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Posted 20 January 2022 - 01:52 PM

View Posttee5, on 19 January 2022 - 09:40 AM, said:

9 months later and still nothing happened.
Come on PGI it's changing a 3 digit number in a XML-Sheet or in the ProgrammCode.

var_dropdecklimit_CLANS:private = 265

You can do it.



As Cauldron found with ECM, and other things, just because it's in the XML doesn't mean it isn't actually hard coded somewhere else. Everyone assumes it is all simple, the reality is quite the opposite the more things get uncovered.


That said Cauldron has again asked for the tonnage to/can be looked at etc.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 20 January 2022 - 07:01 PM.


#51 Extra Guac

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 07:20 AM

First we would need to see the overall win/loss stats at the current tonnage limits. It doesn't make sense to just "go with your gut". Like all other balance passes, this should be data-driven.

#52 Hobbles v

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 08:54 AM

View PostExtra Guac, on 21 January 2022 - 07:20 AM, said:

First we would need to see the overall win/loss stats at the current tonnage limits. It doesn't make sense to just "go with your gut". Like all other balance passes, this should be data-driven.


Pretty sure that Clan does have a win rate advantage if the FP leaderboards can be trusted.

However I think the IS loses more because their stock builds are massively inferior and it's so much easier for new players to put bad builds and ignore crucial upgrades. I think will you throw veteran players up against each other the two sides are even. but when it comes to inexperienced pugs the Clans have a decisive advantage.

I want to see how an even tonnage would affect things.

#53 tee5

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 08:59 AM

FW/CW is in a state, where:

The Side gets more wins, where the bigger group is. Because on the opposing side, is nothing but a couple of scattered single players, no real competition for the bigger group. Sadly we are in a state, that FW/CW can only manage to get one cooridinated group going.

If the bigger group decides, we want to play IS, then IS will win more matches.
If the bigger group decides to play CLAN, then CLAN is winning more matches.


So your DATA will show nothing of value, it will only show on which Side the bigger group was.

When the bigger group was long enough on one SIDE, they have driven away all the enemies. And then they switch to the other Side and hope that they will get some matches on the other side.


EDIT: Spelling

Edited by tee5, 21 January 2022 - 09:02 AM.


#54 NPC SLAYER

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 10:11 AM

Its been this way for a long time. But realistically I would not even bother dropping in FW in more than a 4 man 99 percent of the time. There just is no point in rolling 8-12 mans in FP any longer.

#55 justcallme A S H

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 12:29 PM

View Posttee5, on 21 January 2022 - 08:59 AM, said:

FW/CW is in a state, where:

The Side gets more wins, where the bigger group is. Because on the opposing side, is nothing but a couple of scattered single players, no real competition for the bigger group. Sadly we are in a state, that FW/CW can only manage to get one cooridinated group going.

If the bigger group decides, we want to play IS, then IS will win more matches.
If the bigger group decides to play CLAN, then CLAN is winning more matches.


So your DATA will show nothing of value, it will only show on which Side the bigger group was.

When the bigger group was long enough on one SIDE, they have driven away all the enemies. And then they switch to the other Side and hope that they will get some matches on the other side.


EDIT: Spelling


If the data had wins and also group size/distribution information, it would. PGI has extremely detailed stats, it's just a case of using it.

That said it's always going to be hard. I mean you have the same units/groups that seemingly no matter what - will sit on defense even if the queue is 5/24 because they are terrible. Same as you have people crying 'IS is OP' and all the usual carrying on we've seen for many years.

So who knows. You'd sooner just change it and see how it goes than trying to worry too much about data analysis here.


#56 tee5

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 04:39 PM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 21 January 2022 - 12:29 PM, said:

If the data had wins and also group size/distribution information, it would. PGI has extremely detailed stats, it's just a case of using it.

That said it's always going to be hard. I mean you have the same units/groups that seemingly no matter what - will sit on defense even if the queue is 5/24 because they are terrible. Same as you have people crying 'IS is OP' and all the usual carrying on we've seen for many years.

So who knows. You'd sooner just change it and see how it goes than trying to worry too much about data analysis here.



I totally agree that the tonnage should be changed now, without too much worrying.

And then in 10 months when PGI has "resources" again to change a 3 digit-number, then we can change the dropship tonnage limit again.

Maybe we have "luck" and CW/FW died until then,
then we don't have to change the 3 digit-number again.


EDIT: Added the last sentence.

Edited by tee5, 21 January 2022 - 05:18 PM.


#57 Staude

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Posted 22 January 2022 - 11:27 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 21 January 2022 - 12:29 PM, said:

If the data had wins and also group size/distribution information, it would. PGI has extremely detailed stats, it's just a case of using it.

That said it's always going to be hard. I mean you have the same units/groups that seemingly no matter what - will sit on defense even if the queue is 5/24 because they are terrible. Same as you have people crying 'IS is OP' and all the usual carrying on we've seen for many years.

So who knows. You'd sooner just change it and see how it goes than trying to worry too much about data analysis here.


how about if the data is published or is it a secret

I saw your way of playing in FP Was it the last row where you stood?

Edited by Staude, 22 January 2022 - 11:32 AM.


#58 justcallme A S H

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Posted 22 January 2022 - 12:01 PM

Ask PGI for the information. Cauldron is not allowed to release anything.

I saw your way if playing in FP. Was it bad?

#59 tee5

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Posted 22 January 2022 - 12:08 PM

we are discussing over the Dropship-Tonnage-Limit for IS and CLAN.

Lead the discussion over different playstyles in CW/FW in another thread, not in this one.

#60 NPC SLAYER

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Posted 23 January 2022 - 05:44 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 22 January 2022 - 12:01 PM, said:

Ask PGI for the information. Cauldron is not allowed to release anything.

I saw your way if playing in FP. Was it bad?


Ignore the ********. Your days in FP were good and those of us who know, know. New Players have no idea how different FP was back in the day.





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