17 replies to this topic

[x Deathstrike x]

Something that I do in a fast light on HPG Manifold which I have never seen when being done to "me" is running into the basement and set an Arty Strike right below the feet of the enemies above me at the beginning of a game.

Using seismic it is simple to know when the density above me is high enough.
Since nobody can see the smoke they can also not react and disperse before the strike hits.
When nobody is checking the basement you can easily get two strikes out before the NASCAR starts. One time I even got it that the marker stayed red for the entire duration of the strike.

So why are not more lights doing this?

Edited by x Deathstrike x, 23 May 2021 - 03:15 AM.

[martian]

Arty is not as strong as it used to be.

Plus, PUGs often refuse to use consumables, even though their use could help their team to win.

[x Deathstrike x]

martian, on 23 May 2021 - 03:36 AM, said:

Arty is not as strong as it used to be.

I would say if you cannot see them coming (which in this case is true) the new arty strikes should be equally good.
Overall the new arty strikes have a higher damage potential compared to the old ones but your chance to move out of the strikes area is also much higher due to the longer duration thus overall you take less damage.

Old damage potential was: 450 (15*3*10)
New damage potential is: 600 (5*6*20)
Looks like the above is wrong. See Nightbirds post below.

Edited by x Deathstrike x, 24 May 2021 - 01:00 AM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

There are several reasons why this isn't used that often (any more):

• Some players actually are still unaware that this works
  
• Others do know but deem it not worth the time, cost and effort
  
• There actually is only a limited number of places in the basement where it actually will work (only close to two of the four entrypoints) with decent rate of success. A few pixels to the left or the right when putting down the strike and all you'll get is the rumble effect but no damage even if seismic shows you that there are mechs above and should be hit
  
• It only works if several conditions are met at the same time:
  
  • The light must start out from a drop place that allows it to get to the basement in time before battle movement (not just NASCAR) starts. If the light ends up in Bravo due to a group being in game that's sometimes no longer possible
    
  • The enemy forces must actually come to and stand on a spot where it works. Depending on game mode and their different starting points that's not necessarily a guarantee
    
  • It usually only works on the first two available strike time slots but more than often the enemy isn't quite in the desired position when the first timer slot becomes available ... but once they are someone else has already triggered his own strike somewhere above and thus put yours on cooldown and the window of opportunity just closes because by the time the second strike becomes available the battle movement has alread begun
• Neither of the following is guaranteed:
  
  • A reasonably fast light mech in play
    
  • That light also carrying at least one strike
• The recent damage reduction on strikes has made it even more into a gamble that fails more often than it manages to actually deliver

[martian]

x Deathstrike x, on 23 May 2021 - 03:43 AM, said:

I would say if you cannot see them coming (which in this case is true) the new arty strikes should be equally good.
Overall the new arty strikes have a higher damage potential compared to the old ones but your chance to move out of the strikes area is also much higher due to the longer duration thus overall you take less damage.

Old damage potential was: 450 (15*3*10)
New damage potential is: 600 (5*6*20)

The problem is that enemy 'Mechs can leave the bombardment area with nothing much worse than scorched paint.

Edited by martian, 23 May 2021 - 04:13 AM.

[Wildstreak]

There are several places on several maps you can sneak strikes but there are also problems.

1 - Lights least used chassis.

2 - On HPG, the roof still has some cover.

[GuardDogg]

Since it is the only tactic majority think of "Take top". Helps prevent enemy team from taking top as quickly as possible. Their is many more maneuvers, and tactical on this map, other than taking top center.

[MadDach5und]

Go into the "Testing Grounds" of HG Manifold and trigger the flying camera with "f5" key (I think)

The flying camera goes thru walls and objects, so with some practice, by zooming up and down, you can figure out where is the best spot in the basement to deploy an arty strike. You'll find out a couple things about the map, namely how much of the upper level is covered from bombardment by the Dish assembly.

I've used this tactic numerous times myself. A few things to remember...

1) Most people playing MWO for competitive reasons only want to do the most damage possible to get their green pilot skill arrow. Flying a light solo into the heart of the battle at the start - flies in the face of the "Herd of Yaks" mentality. Scouting is a lost art, so you WILL get COMs grumbles not matter what. Don't count on backup about 98% of the time.

2) If you can see THEM on seismic - guess what? THEY can see YOU. If they decide to drop into the basement and give chase, you got next to ZERO support. You gotta be damn good at dancing your way out of a firefight, or just accept that those extra 100 points of damage from the arty strike is probably ALL you will get in the game. Either you will be ignored and allowed to be sneaky, or you will be attacked - and most likely be the first person knocked out on your team.

3) Arty strikes are fickle things. You might see your aiming reticle flicker red a dozen times, and think you really laid it into the team - then find out you only did maybe 28 damage scattered about half the team. The other part about movement on RPG is that mechs rarely sit still in the corners or on the ramps - and there is quite a bit of vertical change that means you hit the tower / ramp / ledge above them instead of a direct bombing.

Keep doing it. It's fun. Learn to be a sneaky mo-fo and give these lazy tanky players fits. Arty strikes still make most players flinch, and sometimes that's enough. Just keep in mind when you enter the basement alone, you basically exposed yourself to anyone with the same idea.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

x Deathstrike x, on 23 May 2021 - 03:14 AM, said:

Something that I do in a fast light on HPG Manifold which I have never seen when being done to "me" is running into the basement and set an Arty Strike right below the feet of the enemies above me at the beginning of a game.

Using seismic it is simple to know when the density above me is high enough.
Since nobody can see the smoke they can also not react and disperse before the strike hits.
When nobody is checking the basement you can easily get two strikes out before the NASCAR starts. One time I even got it that the marker stayed red for the entire duration of the strike.

So why are not more lights doing this?

the answer is a simple as it is painful:
it requires people to at least think a tiny bit. same as in "take top" - and all of your 11"teammates" run in circles around it and trying to convince you that THAT is the way to win .. only to find out it's not. as it wasn't last time. or the time before.
yet next match, they continue to NOT take said top

same as with all the simple things in mwo; thinking required, thinking not wanted

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 23 May 2021 - 11:04 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

x Deathstrike x, on 23 May 2021 - 03:14 AM, said:

So why are not more lights doing this?

Two words - Intelligent gameplay.


It's that simple really. Hell I do it in Assaults, you can do it on Tourmaline, Crimson as well in various places by placing strikes in smart spots. Even on UAVs etc etc.

Again it's just coming down to being smart, gameplay aware etc.

[Moldur]

My opinion remains the same as it always has been. Consumables have no place in this game. The only thing wrong with the fire support nerf is it didn't happen sooner.

[Wildstreak]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 23 May 2021 - 11:03 AM, said:

and all of your 11"teammates" run in circles around it and trying to convince you that THAT is the way to win

I get more allies on HPG that prefer to stand in place not on top level but waiting for someone to peek from it resulting in many allies getting mowed down better than a drivable lawnmower does to a yard.

[Nightbird]

x Deathstrike x, on 23 May 2021 - 03:43 AM, said:

I would say if you cannot see them coming (which in this case is true) the new arty strikes should be equally good.
Overall the new arty strikes have a higher damage potential compared to the old ones but your chance to move out of the strikes area is also much higher due to the longer duration thus overall you take less damage.

Old damage potential was: 450 (15*3*10)
New damage potential is: 600 (5*6*20)

nope, old was 15*10 = 150
new is 5*20 = 100

Now, the damage is done per component so your total damage can be higher depending on the number of mechs and components hit but the total potential is 33% less.

The 3 and 6 second duration is the time it takes to drop 10 and 20 bombs respectively and don't factor in the damage potential calculations.

[x Deathstrike x]

Nightbird, on 23 May 2021 - 09:05 PM, said:

nope, old was 15*10 = 150
new is 5*20 = 100

Ok thank you for the correction.

[Tom Sawyer]

Bring back purple smoke!

Also fix AMS that can pick missiles through anything, dirt, steel, plascrete, small furry animals.

[Leone]

What!? No. Four laser ams piranha in the HPG basement is a blast! And then, when folk realize what's going on and start trickling in one by one into the Murder Basement? That's a match cincher right there. Mech's check in, they don't check out.

Unless of course the whole team descends on me. Then I die a terrible, terrible death.

~Leone.

[DreadDjinn]

I would point out that any miscommunication in timing will probably result in your own team's doorknockers taking the brunt of the arty at a time where they can least afford it. Waiting for the battle to become static with the enemy clustered on top is a very situational event.

[Brauer]

DreadDjinn, on 25 May 2021 - 11:14 AM, said:

I would point out that any miscommunication in timing will probably result in your own team's doorknockers taking the brunt of the arty at a time where they can least afford it. Waiting for the battle to become static with the enemy clustered on top is a very situational event.

If I get HPG and I'm in a Piranha I nearly always try to drop strikes like this. I don't think I've ever gotten any team damage doing it. You don't even need seismic to pull it off.