14 replies to this topic

[Slambot]

Is it just me, or are ATM's pretty useless atm?

My observation is that they are incredibly slow, very very vulnerable to ams and the range limitations are such that they just are very difficult to use effectively. Does anyone agree? I almost never see ATMs anymore.

[martian]

Slambot, on 15 May 2021 - 12:41 PM, said:

Is it just me, or are ATM's pretty useless atm?

My observation is that they are incredibly slow, very very vulnerable to ams and the range limitations are such that they just are very difficult to use effectively. Does anyone agree? I almost never see ATMs anymore.

ATMs still work for me.

[FupDup]

Their missile HP was buffed recently, which makes them slightly less useless against AMS than they used to be. Their damage curve also got flattened (more damage at long range, less damage up close) which is a double-edged sword.

I think it would be more accurate to say that they are more boring and less unique than before due to the reduced damage in short range. It was however a necessary evil to nerf that aspect because they were just so clownshoes stupid before with how much concentrated damage they could do with no aiming requirement.

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

Slambot, on 15 May 2021 - 12:41 PM, said:

Is it just me, or are ATM's pretty useless atm?

I can only hope so.

[LordNothing]

i tried a pair of atm12s on my prize timbie and i just didnt like it. which is unfortunate because i didn't want to do the typical peak'n'poke build, i have 3 of those already, finally settled on an srm+uac20 brawler. i even tried lerms for a bit but instead remembered how much i dont like lerms. that bout with brain damage didn't last 2 matches. but its sad that the suicide charge build outperformed an atm build.

[Escef]

FupDup, on 15 May 2021 - 12:46 PM, said:

It was however a necessary evil to nerf that aspect because they were just so clownshoes stupid before with how much concentrated damage they could do with no aiming requirement.

Lock-on weapons require more aiming than ballistics and most beam weapons. It's just less precise aiming. The tradeoff for this is also splattering damage all over the target, which is highly inefficient.

That said, I had noticed that pre-patch an ATM boat could XL-check many lights in one salvo if it was inside of that magic 3 damage/missile zone. Which, of course, is instant death for most IS lights, and none too healthy for their clan cousins. Seriously, a pair of 9-packs at optimal range was over 50 damage, and that's far from what could be done on a dedicated ATM boat. A Whammie IIC-2 could carry 4xATM12 (that's over 140 damage at optimum range), adequate ammo, and still move at over 70 kph. Even with the recent ATM nerf, it's still really strong (120 damage if all the missiles connect inside of optimum range). EDIT: I'd never actually tried the build myself, and after tinkering around with it, my initial idea was really tight on heat and ammo. A pair each of 12 and 9 packs with a 325XL (my initial build used a 350XL) is much more manageable. You still have to mind your heat, but an alpha won't put you in danger of shutdown and with more ammo for less hungry launchers you have more endurance.

Overall, though, an ATM boat is countered the same way an LRM boat (especially an IS one) is: isolate if you can, approach using cover (especially ECM cover or AMS cover, but terrain will do fine), and bumrush the SOB to engage under minimum range.

Edited by Escef, 15 May 2021 - 11:04 PM.

[Abisha]

ATM are useful they only request a line of sight to be used
or you being on higher grounds

so they less flexible then LRM
if you wanna use Long range weapons you should mix LRM with ATM

[Leone]

Honestly, if you want long range weaponry, ballistics and energy'll do you better. Missiles are more a midrange weapon.

~Leone.

[martian]

Leone, on 15 May 2021 - 10:27 PM, said:

Honestly, if you want long range weaponry, ballistics and energy'll do you better. Missiles are more a midrange weapon.

~Leone.

Many people see the max range of 1100 m and use them as LRMs, but the ATMs really shine when used just from a few meters behind the front line.

[PocketYoda]

Slambot, on 15 May 2021 - 12:41 PM, said:

Is it just me, or are ATM's pretty useless atm?

My observation is that they are incredibly slow, very very vulnerable to ams and the range limitations are such that they just are very difficult to use effectively. Does anyone agree? I almost never see ATMs anymore.

Get closer..

[Alexander of Macedon]

Yes. The damage on their close-range band got hit hard so there's essentially no reason to run them any more. They're just worse LRMs at long range, and without the high close/med-range damage there's zero reason to run them instead of SRMs, since the latter require less tonnage, fewer crit slots, don't need locks, and don't eat a bunch of skill points for the sensor tree.

The problem was predominantly with ATM-boating assaults, but the mechs that got hit worst were the mediums and fast heavies using ATM18 or ATM24 and playing around that ideal range band. Ironically enough the one use case that is doing better with ATMs after the change is the group of people boating stupid amounts of them on assaults and firing from long range.

The missile health buff is irrelevant when AMS is so heavily proliferated and they're still ripple-fired... except, again, in the case of people boating stuff like ATM48 assaults.

So the most obnoxious application of ATMs barely suffered while the one that required careful positioning and some modicum of skill got spiked into the ground.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 16 May 2021 - 06:51 AM.

[John Bronco]

They evaporated the CT on my Banshee pretty damn fast last night, so no, they're still around. They just aren't played as much as they used to be since they're more balanced now.

[martian]

John Bronco, on 16 May 2021 - 06:53 AM, said:

They evaporated the CT on my Banshee pretty damn fast last night, so no, they're still around. They just aren't played as much as they used to be since they're more balanced now.

We can say that they are more balanced now and I suspect that many players are running 'Mechs armed with weapons that they have been "revived" by the recent change.

[JC Daxion]

Leone, on 15 May 2021 - 10:27 PM, said:

Honestly, if you want long range weaponry, ballistics and energy'll do you better. Missiles are more a midrange weapon.

~Leone.

I wish more people understood that.

[Zordicron]

I see lrms, ATMs yet. People boat them yet.
They are all getting eaten by the new alphas capable after the changes.

Back in wayback yesteryear, it was a similar situation. This was before clans. LRM boats could be super effective. Except almost everything in the game could counter them, including big pinpoint alphas. Bigger, badder alphas are back, and people need to adjust off their camping, DPS, indirect fire loadouts or they will get eaten.

Amusingly, the ATM's in their former state would have fit in better with current state then they do now. But I suspect a swing back towards DPS and range will come down the pipe before end of year.