5 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

Yes this will be a multi-post description in the vain hopes of giving PGI the best chance of finding a fix along with emailing a link to Support. This is using both the Base Game plus HotIS Expansion that some people say is better yet I find it still has issues like this one.

This will be in 5 posts in this thread, 5th Summary of Conclusions first followed by 4 parts later showing how I came to these.

IF YOU WANT SIMPLE TLDR STUFF, DO NOT READ OTHER 4 POSTS LATER.
THIS HAS BEEN TLDR’d TO DEATH AND IS STILL NOT FIXED PROPERLY AS I WILL ILLUSTRATE, THOSE TLDR RESPONSES DID NOT AND WILL NOT WORK.

I have heard of this ‘Respawn Issue’ before I bought MW5, problem is all mentions were very simplistic. When you want something fixed, you have to be as detailed as possible not because ‘I say so’ rather that is how many things including games are fixed provided the developers actually respond (some do, others do not).

Part 5 Summary

Part 1 Conclusion
Difficulty rating systems within the same Mode (Campaign, Instant Action, maybe Career) are not the same based off whether you are doing a Random or Scripted mission resulting in some missions at the same rating winnable while others are less so, maybe not.

Part 2 Conclusion
Difficulty rating systems are different between Modes (Campaign & Career vs Instant Action) but there is no rationale for this.

Part 3 Conclusion
The 4 offensive mission types are easier than the 2 defensive ones so if you have a rough patch, check if you have done defensive missions and stop doing them until things get better.
Does not change the fact this should NOT be happening as the Part 4 proves.
Fix bug to be mentioned in later post.

Part 4 Conclusion
Compared to previous MW titles that appear to follow a rough design for balance in choices of number and tonnage of opponents, MW5 throws the gates too wide open forcing fights against too many Mech units alone before counting non-Mechs and the tonnage difference is not close enough to what a player would bring thus creating a big imbalance here.

Part 6 Conclusion
Certain mission conditions cause enemies to be spawned right near player start.

Suggested Fixes
1 – Difficulty system should not produce big differences in opponent numbers between Scripted and Random missions.
2 – Difficulty system needs standardizing in the whole game, no reason for two systems but not sure how easy this is to do.
3 – All 6 mission types at the same rating should produce almost similar enemy numbers and type, there should be no reason defensive ones force more enemies than offensive.
4 – Both Scripted and Random missions need smaller opponent numbers with Mech tonnage closer to what a player would bring at that Difficulty as seen in previous MW titles, this was part of their design that made them good in the series.
6 - Either change enemy spawns away from player start for missions meeting these 2 conditions (Small Map, mission type without Dropship start) or prevent these mission meeting both conditions from being created.

Edited by Wildstreak, 14 June 2021 - 04:08 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Explanation of Part 1 Conclusion.

When I look at games, I approach them differently than others. Quite a number just dive in and start playing either ignoring or unaware of problems (some MW5 players are). I start by going through stuff looking for how things work, in MW5 I did this by doing what I have done in other games like during the HBS BattleTech Beta.

I went to Instant Action first and played a LOT of that finding numerous issues including the Respawn one in greater detail that I have seen no one report. I have also now played some of the Campaign and see more of it with even more problems in addition to the Respawn Issue.

Part 1 Problem – Scripted vs Random

This happens in both Instant Action and Campaign. There are Scripted Campaign missions that are tougher than taking the Random missions on planets that can change as you clear out planets of them.

In Instant Action you are sent to Custom Scenario you can modify yourself or on top switch to Select Scenario. Before doing any Campaign / Career, there are only 5 Missions in Select Scenario.
Assassination – Difficulty 50
Defense – Difficulty 40
Demolition – Difficulty 70
Raid – Difficulty 60
Warzone – Difficulty 90
Certain Campaign missions get added to this list as you play Campaign, maybe Career too (not really played through that a lot to tell). Being new, I have done the Defense one several times since it had the lowest Difficulty to feel out the game. These are all Scripted so you face the same Mechs in every Wave every time you try it compared to Random that changes Mechs and Vehicles even if the Scenario Settings are always the same.

Defense: Scenario 1 gives you 220 tons for your lance, it also has Poor visibility on Forest (Winter) map.. I have done several different choices here.
4 Mediums
Heavy + Mediums + maybe a Light
3 Heavies
2 Assaults + Heavy / Medium
Never finished this once. Without going into full detail, here is a general list of what you get thrown at you, some waves have vehicles but that is not really too important and they are typically Light tanks, nothing bigger and I do not recall VTOLs.
Wave 1 – Light Mechs
Wave 2 – Crab plus 1-2 Lights
Wave 3 – Blackjack + Cicada + maybe a Light
Wave 4 – 2 Orions plus Zeus
Now here you would think this was over, NOPE.
Wave 5 – Medium + Lights
Wave 6 – Rifleman + 2 Quickdraws + Warhammer
I have never gotten past Wave 6 to see if it ends there or there might be MORE WAVES. The enemies never win by destroying the target, they always wipe the lance including at some point myself.

After this, I then went to Custom Scenario (Random) and set up Defense with Difficulty 40 with same terrain and visibility plus other terrain and visibility. An example of one follows.
I typically run into 3-4 waves of enemies then the Defense Mission ends. One I did had as Mech enemies Riflemen, JagerMechs and Victors (2).

Comparing these, you can see obvious differences. Here we have:
Same Mission type (Defense) and settings (Difficulty, I even did Terrain and Visibility too).
Scripted ran me over like a freight train with 6 Waves of all 4 tonnages with no proof it ends at 6 Waves.
Random gave me 3-4 Mech Waves then DONE.

[Wildstreak]

Part 2 Problem – Two Different Difficulty Ratings

Explanation of Part 2 Conclusion, found this while writing this up.

I previously made a Difficulty chart, turns out that is only for Instant Action – Custom Scenario. After playing some Campaign and writing this, I realized Campaign and probably Career is not the same Rating system.

On my chart, Difficulty 33-34 in Instant Action gives you 200 tons for your lance.
In Campaign, I started hitting 200 tons for my Lance at around Difficulty 20.
You would think that makes Campaign easier.
WRONG.

Some of the 20-23 Difficulty missions I did were tough but I managed to get through them, others though were unbeatable. Most important ALL of them started showing more of the Respawn problem similar to what I mentioned in the Scripted Scenario Defense: Mission 1 found under Instant Action though with less tonnage on opponents.

This is rather odd because ALL of these Campaign Difficulty 20-23 missions are Random ones yet the number of opponents thrown at you in Waves is similar to a Scripted Scenario though with less tonnage.

Still these can be at times unbeatable. One example, I tried a Difficulty 22 Demolition in Campaign, could not destroy the target because I kept getting Lights and Mediums along with vehicles thrown at me, usually between 30-50 tons per Mech. Fast opponents were hard for AI allies in Mediums to fight especially with allies doing ‘The Spin Dance’ (ask if you do not know what this is, another AI issue only seen in allies not enemies). Despite times I tried to let my lance fight while I did the objective, I kept having to save them or watch them die then get jumped by the enemies.

Edited by Wildstreak, 14 June 2021 - 06:44 AM.

[Wildstreak]

Part 3 – Mission Type Matters

First discovered in Instant Action, verified as same trying different Campaign & Career missions.

Worst are Defense at #1 (see sample descriptions in Part 1 above) followed by Warzone #2. I figure these two rate worst partly because they are defensive making you go to one location and stay there while enemies come at you. Maybe you disagree for Warzone but if you wander about, you risk having spawns drop right on top of you, if you stay where you were sent to they do not.

The other 4 mission types (Assassination, Beachhead, Demolition and Raid) are offensive missions where you have more freedom to move about, some of the enemies are spawned into fixed locations at start until you enter their detection area like previous MW titles. This allows you for part if not all of the mission to face less overwhelming odds that Defense or Warzone.

I should note I have also seen this weird bug in offensive missions where when I do the very last objective, I get a message first of a dropship spawning enemies followed by a congratulatory message for finishing. The enemies mentioned as dropped NEVER SHOW UP even if I wait or go looking for them.

Edited by Wildstreak, 14 June 2021 - 09:14 AM.

[Wildstreak]

Part 4 = MechWarrior 5 vs Previous MechWarrion games (opponents faced in missions)

More clarity is found looking over walkthroughs of previous MechWarrior titles even if you never played them. Publicly available walkthroughs can be read for data of opponents faced and compared to MW5 to see the obvious.

Personally I have done all of MW1, MW2, MW2 GWB, MW2 Mercs, some of MW3 and the demo of MW4 Mercs.

I will use the following for reference:
MechWarrior 2 Mercenaries walkthrough listing both Campaign multi-missions and Single missions.
MechWarrior 3 walkthrough listing main Campaign multi-mission Operations.
MechWarrior 4 Mercenaries walkthough listing Campaign multi-missions.

No walkthrough for MW1 really details the combat, the Campaign had almost no Mech combat until the end, all the rest was just choices of text based off description. The main Mech combat was more like Random missions from other MW titles including MW5 but this video will show proof about the 1:45 time linked.

Going through those show in MW1 whatever you brought determined what you fought along with how far into the story you were. There is a MW1 walkthrough at link on Sarna that states this in Section B, fifth #1 listed along with a ‘cheat’ description how to make the enemies weaker than they should be (never knew of this, never did it to verify if true), the video shows how in all the Random missions, the contract you get gives a good idea roughly of enemy strength (The only Assault was counted as a Heavy).

Other non-MW1 titles, you could get a rough guess even without up front info on what you went against and with walkthroughs like linked above, see what you faced.

Summarizing all the previous titles, Scripted events had fixed amounts and types of Mechs to fight based on rough estimations of what the player brought.

For example, if you go to the mdiway point of any Scripted Campaign description that may be in the area of 200 tons lance weight based on description of what a player should bring, usually the player had 2-4 in his lance based on game expected to have all Mediums, Mediums + Heavies or a couple Heavies, possibly 1 Assault in the lance.
Enemies faced typically consisted of a fixed amount of Mediums + Heavies, maybe 1-3 Lights usually fighting 1-3 enemies at one time if you played smart in where you went and which enemies registered the player. Enemy Mech numbers at mid-Campaign were roughly 3-7 per mission along with non-Mechs in almost similar numbers.

Compare that to Scripted MW5 like I described in Part 1. The Defense: Mission 1 at Difficulty 40 in Select Mission of Instant Action that has about 15-19 enemy Mechs to fight, maybe more since I never got past Wave 6. All that in one mission clearly shows the usual rough formula from previous MW titles was not known or ignored for no reason understandable.

Comparison of Random missions shows the same. MW1 stated in contracts how many enemies you could expect and allowed you to decide to take or reject contracts partly based on that. I forget how other titles handled that.

MW5 gives you vague info on possible Mechs you can meet on planets but NEVER an indication of how many and I have seen some Random missions throw TOO many at you.

Finally there is the tonnage difference in opponents. Most previous MW titles had majority of enemies from tonnage close to what the player may bring with few exceptions.

MW5 either throws large numbers of Lights and low weight Mediums against the same tonnage or in Instant Action, a HUGE mix of all 4 tonnage types, both cases in far too large a number.

[Wildstreak]

Someone's Reddit post reminded me of another spawn related issue I will add here.

Part 6 – Enemy Spawns on Top of Non-Dropship Start Locations

Just remembered to add this, so far does not seem common but easy to reproduce.

This is when certain conditions are met especially mission types where you do not start in your Dropship, instead you are in what I call, “Hollywood Cool Pose,” mode before being put in your Mech.

Note, there is a bug with, “Hollywood Cool Pose,” mode where some Mechs look like they are Half-Dabbing, minor issue some might actually like it.

Main point, if you spawn on a Small map in a mode, I think Raid is one, without your starting Dropship you can have enemies spawn right next to you resulting in you watch yourself in, “Hollywood Cool Pose,” mode getting shot at with no way to fight back for a while.

I know I can cause this to happen in Custom Instant Action, did it trying to do a Solo King Crab mission, by choosing
Map Size Small
Mission Type without Dropship start
Difficulty minimum 8 for 100 tons allowing Solo 100 ton Assault Mech start

In Campaign first time I saw it was at Mission Difficulty low 20s but that mission had my Dropship letting us off so it fired back and destroyed them.