25 replies to this topic

[Veolfen]

Hello people !
I'm making this topic because i have a real hard time having impact in the game these days.
I kind of stopped playing for a long period, used to be a tier 2 constantly averaging 450 to 500 damages with my meds (sometimes a bit bellow, regularly slightly above, sometimes getting 700 to 900 damages) in Tier 2.

Came back a few weeks ago, got put into tier 3 (Saw the changes about tiers & stuff). And I struggle, A LOT in tier 3.
I play mostly mid range dps builds (mrm/acs/lbx/some med lasers) with medium mechs (bushwacker mostly), i don't like laser vomit builds, and i have a real hard time finding openings : I can't poke because it looks like there's so many people rocking gauss+ppcs and people are taking out my side torsos in 2 alpha strikes, and fight are kind of stale at long range till one side loose suddenly 6 members, then i can't do anything because the ennemy team rushes to clean the second half of the team, not letting me time to dps.
If i try flanking, there's always a bunch of lights or even some heavies who will rush as 2 on me and overwhelm me, if i stick with the team, the scenario above happens.
I don't want to zerg, but if i don't, i'm ending up alone and always a bunch of 2 to 4 mechs take this opportunity to overwhelm me, so i'm forced to stick with the group.

Also dunno how & why, but i'm on a really big lose streak. No matter my impact, my team keeps getting wrecked (like game is stale and suddenly there's 6 guys dying in a 30 seconds span). In the 30 last games i won like 3 to 4 games.

TLDR : I have a hard time finding mid range engagements, high alpha long range builds are two shotting my side torsos (and 2 to 3 shotting my core) so i can't poke, and when short range fight happens, it's when the victory has already been decided by a team. Also on a pretty big loss streak, with something around 25 loss for 5 wins.

-Is it the meta that isn't fitting for mrm/dps stuff ?
-What's your tips with medium mechs ?
-Am I just rusty and can't position myself correctly anymore ? (goes along previous question) + discovering changed maps/new maps.
-Did they kind of nerf MrMs ? (feels like dps is lower, but it my just be me)
-Anything to add about the current state ?

Thank you if you take your time reading it at least, and even more if you take time to answer it.

Edited by Veolfen, 25 June 2021 - 04:15 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Veolfen, on 25 June 2021 - 04:10 AM, said:

Hello people !
I'm making this topic because i have a real hard time having impact in the game these days.
I kind of stopped playing for a long period, used to be a tier 2 constantly averaging 450 to 500 damages with my meds (sometimes a bit bellow, regularly slightly above, sometimes getting 700 to 900 damages) in Tier 2.

Came back a few weeks ago, got put into tier 3 (Saw the changes about tiers & stuff). And I struggle, A LOT in tier 3.
I play mostly mid range dps builds (mrm/acs/lbx/some med lasers) with medium mechs (bushwacker mostly), i don't like laser vomit builds, and i have a real hard time finding openings : I can't poke because it looks like there's so many people rocking gauss+ppcs and people are taking out my side torsos in 2 alpha strikes, and fight are kind of stale at long range till one side loose suddenly 6 members, then i can't do anything because the ennemy team rushes to clean the second half of the team, not letting me time to dps.
If i try flanking, there's always a bunch of lights or even some heavies who will rush as 2 on me and overwhelm me, if i stick with the team, the scenario above happens.
I don't want to zerg, but if i don't, i'm ending up alone and always a bunch of 2 to 4 mechs take this opportunity to overwhelm me, so i'm forced to stick with the group.

Also dunno how & why, but i'm on a really big lose streak. No matter my impact, my team keeps getting wrecked (like game is stale and suddenly there's 6 guys dying in a 30 seconds span). In the 30 last games i won like 3 to 4 games.

TLDR : I have a hard time finding mid range engagements, high alpha long range builds are two shotting my side torsos (and 2 to 3 shotting my core) so i can't poke, and when short range fight happens, it's when the victory has already been decided by a team. Also on a pretty big loss streak, with something around 25 loss for 5 wins.

-Is it the meta that isn't fitting for mrm/dps stuff ?
-What's your tips with medium mechs ?
-Am I just rusty and can't position myself correctly anymore ? (goes along previous question) + discovering changed maps/new maps.
-Anything to add about the current state ?

Thank you if you take your time reading it at least, and even more if you take time to answer it.

The weapons you are using aren't viable for medrange anymore...they are shortrange or brawling wpns.
Damage over time strategies i.e. attrition also fell pretty much out of favor due to a strong resurgenz of PPFLD weapons like gauss and all kinds of PPC due to the last 3 updates.
Only semi viable over time weapons are rapid firing AC builds and RACs.

Medium mechs are pretty much run&gun but never poke since even a single blast from an GausPPC build will most likely strip you naked and the second might kill you. So either be very carefull and patient and wait till your team commits till you engage override and pour every thing you got into the enemy or you turn to jump and flank maneuvers in some kind of pack hunter strategy or you use frontload yourself. Dervish with 4MRM10 and some pulse or mlasers will do. Only remotely successfull Bushys I see around are RAC ones.

And yess you are most likely a bit rusty. In its momentary state the game became a lot faster, more run and gun, more move with your team or die in an instant...in QP there is realy no room for independent maneuvering or surprise maneuvers since any mech beeing able to maneuver faster than a Heavy will almost always be twoshot the moment you stick your face out and encounter anything but T5

[justcallme A S H]

So a few things.

T2 is no longer what it was, as in a Tier 5 users no longer can climb into Tier 1/2 anymore. This is quite a big point as higher tier games now will, generally, have better players overall as an average. You will no longer have 30% pinatas in T1-3 matches every match like previously possible (about a year ago reset happened).

In addition to that I would say mostly rust and you just need to readjust a little to that.

Range is a bit more balanced in that, it's viable again where previously it was a wet-noodle which comes into the above.


That is about the crux of it I think without getting too complicated.

[Kiiyor]

Yeah, I've recently-ish returned after a hefty hiatus and noticed a lot of the similar.

The weapon system and mobility buffs (though it's hard to consider the full impact of mobility just yet) have had a pretty huge impact IMHO - TTK feels noticeably lower than it used to be - especially with mediums. Heavies and assaults can soak up an extra hit or two, but any decent wallop from a peep veagle or any other pinpoint monster can orange a location at the start of the fight, pretty much putting you on the defensive before you've fired a shot.

Here's hoping there's some survivability tweaks being considered by Cauldron - starting to feel more like Hawken than a Battletech game.

[Pillowseller]

I'm also in kind of the similar situation with you, coming back for the Cauldron patch and finding the situation has become harder than I remembered.

Maybe we are rusty and struggling to adapt to the new balance, but I'm sure the biggest factor is the returning of old but competent veterans. Combined with the PSR reset and adjustment, and now enough time for them to climb up, skill of high-tier player is way more solid then it used to be.

Probably this isn't noticeable for 99+ percenters, but for someone like me who's go-to move is "let's see if someone is making a BIG mistake...", this is a fair challenge I have to face.

So, it's really natural that you find things are harder now. On the other hand, BSW with right build (something like Uac or Rac) is still good enough and shouldn't be the reason to hold you back. Just keep playing and I'm sure you'll learn what to do with it!

[justcallme A S H]

Kiiyor, on 25 June 2021 - 05:09 AM, said:

any decent wallop from a peep veagle or any other pinpoint monster can orange a location at the start of the fight, pretty much putting you on the defensive before you've fired a shot.

A ERPPC Vapor Eagle is basically completely unchanged. None of the balance changes have affected that mech/loadout as it was already strong.

What you are saying it is doing has been possible since the release of the Vapor Eagle years ago.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 25 June 2021 - 05:32 AM.

[Kiiyor]

Veolfen, on 25 June 2021 - 04:10 AM, said:

-What's your tips with medium mechs ?
-Am I just rusty and can't position myself correctly anymore ? (goes along previous question) + discovering changed maps/new maps.

I kind of forgot to offer my advice - I started with mediums (which I always thought were the most fun) when I returned also, and regretted it - they're too unforgiving to re-learn the ropes in, because you don't always survive long enough to learn from your mistakes. The ropes are deadly. Avoid the ropes.

Faster heavies were where I got my groove on - specifically tried and true laser vomit builds. I'd forgotten nearly all the steps of my favourite brawling and midrange dances, so SRMs, MRMs, and the fatter AC's were an exercise in mounting frustration. Use crosshair on mech was more forgiving for me than trying to force my muscle memory to remember where to lead with any sort of projectile, and taught me the intricacies of peek and cower again, which is probably the most essential skill to relearn. Just make sure you have enough speed to get you out of trouble if you make a positioning mistake, of which you'll probably make a plethora.

Also, caution. It's better to stay closer to second line and wait for the fight to establish a little rather than trying to get angles at the start of the fight - enemy mechs with range are straining at the bit, eyes glued to the screen for the telltale clump of pixels at uber range that will net them early damage, and unless you're boating the same, you'll lose trades every time.

Finally, though it's a little out of date with Cauldron, don't be afraid to lean on some of the builds from Grim Mechs - you can just import them straight from the site and play around.

Best of luck.

[Saved By The Bell]

I play only 8 months. But, they killed ATM, LRM, Streaks.

If you attack first - you ll be evaporated in 5 sec.

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 25 June 2021 - 06:18 AM.

[Kiiyor]

justcallme A S H, on 25 June 2021 - 05:31 AM, said:

A ERPPC Vapor Eagle is basically completely unchanged. None of the balance changes have affected that mech/loadout as it was already strong.

What you are saying it is doing has been possible since the release of the Vapor Eagle years ago.

Yeah, and though it's unchanged, it's still a strong mech, and was used more as an example of the impact of the game mechanic of PPFLD, rather than a specific bogey man.

Parity is awesome - I've noticed that a larger range of weapon systems and playstyles seem to be more viable than they used to be. Thing is, the issue as I see it is that the holes an entrepreneuring early fight Veagle (or pretty much any peep boat) pokes in you are now more easily exploited by the weapon system buffs made by Cauldron. A component spanked by early game long range damage is a component that's way easier to open in the first few trades in midrange contact, and it sucks waiting 10 minutes for a game to be put on the back foot in with the first hit you take, unless you're in a mech that can soak it (i.e. quirked Sphere mechs).

Though the mech hasn't changed, Cauldron has exacerbated the issues with that particular loadout and playstyle, IMHO. I understand it's an iterative process though, so future work might hopefully address it a little.

[Gagis]

Clan ERPPC and ultra autocannons were not significantly buffed either.

[Khobai]

justcallme A S H, on 25 June 2021 - 05:31 AM, said:

A ERPPC Vapor Eagle is basically completely unchanged. None of the balance changes have affected that mech/loadout as it was already strong.

What you are saying it is doing has been possible since the release of the Vapor Eagle years ago.

its not the builds that have changed its the meta. its not uncommon for half of an entire team to be PPC/Gauss snipers now.

the reason why people die so fast now is because they walk out in the open and get themselves focused down by PPFLD alphas or just big alphastrikes in general.

Veolfen, on 25 June 2021 - 04:10 AM, said:

high alpha long range builds are two shotting my side torsos (and 2 to 3 shotting my core) so i can't poke, and when short range fight happens, it's when the victory has already been decided by a team.

you cant play the game like you used to. you will die instantly if you try to play it like you used to be able to. you now have to spend half the game playing hide and poke. its incredibly boring now unfortunately. if theres supposed to be a wider variation of weapons im not seeing it all I see are PPCs/Gauss/Autocannons/Lasers/and sometimes MRMs in every single game I play.

And brawling is considerably weaker now. You might as well not even bother with brawling builds. Some people will tell you brawling is fine but its really not. Its the least viable playstyle right now.

If you dont like laser vomit your options are basically either autocannons or PPCs/Gauss. Ive seen people make MRMs work too usually in combination with an autocannon(s) of some type. I recommend using midrange builds with a 400m-600m range you can do a lot of damage at those ranges.

Gagis, on 25 June 2021 - 06:19 AM, said:

Clan ERPPC and ultra autocannons were not significantly buffed either.

CUAC2s were certainly buffed in a significant way.

Edited by Khobai, 25 June 2021 - 07:42 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Khobai, on 25 June 2021 - 06:30 AM, said:

its not the builds that have changed its the meta. its not uncommon for half of an entire team to be PPC/Gauss snipers now.

the reason why people die so fast now is because they walk out in the open and get themselves focused down by PPFLD alphas or just big alphastrikes in general.

you cant play the game like you used to. you will die instantly if you try to play it like you used to be able to. you now have to spend half the game playing hide and poke. its incredibly boring now unfortunately. if theres supposed to be a wider variation of weapons im not seeing it all I see are PPCs/Gauss/Autocannons/Lasers/and sometimes MRMs in every single game I play.

what the... ?!

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Welcome back, Veolfen!

Veolfen, on 25 June 2021 - 04:10 AM, said:

Also dunno how & why, but i'm on a really big lose streak. No matter my impact, my team keeps getting wrecked (like game is stale and suddenly there's 6 guys dying in a 30 seconds span). In the 30 last games i won like 3 to 4 games.

I don't see it, actually. I think you are experiencing confirmation bias.


Just let the rust fall off and you'll be fine, I think.

Khobai, on 25 June 2021 - 06:30 AM, said:

stuff

Dunno man, seems like we live in different realities.

[Veolfen]

Well had a pretty big answer for all of you guys but I lost it by doing an oopsie with the confirmation page. So here's a shorter answer, and also thanks all for those interventions.

From the advice of the brawling being kind of hard today, to not try poking with MRMs & meds.

Also for Pillowseller who encouraged me to keep up with the BSW, don't worry, he's my lovey dovey, i won't abandon my fav mech like this ! I'll train with him till i make it work again.

A lot of good advices and i agree that the sniping meta is a tad boring for me but gotta adapt, i did some gauss builds back in the days before Bushy came out.

Gonna relearn a bit on slightly heavier mech & easier to use weapon types, like Kiiyor suggested to unrust. Great advice, i think i really should do that indeed (also noticed that i actually did better with some slightly heavier mechs indeed).

Aidan Crenshaw, on 25 June 2021 - 07:58 AM, said:

Welcome back, Veolfen!

I don't see it, actually. I think you are experiencing confirmation bias.


Just let the rust fall off and you'll be fine, I think.



Dunno man, seems like we live in different realities.

Thanks for this tab, didn't really know about its existence. I didn't loose as much as i thought, but had a bit more sucess a few more weeks ago (also played with a friend, being 2 helps a lot. Especially when we did 2 assaults & led charges, we actually impacted a lot on a few wins and it was the night were we had probably my only positive win/loss ratio). The loss streak is quite recent, certainly not a 30 loss streak, but a pretty big loss streak over 12-15 games now that i'm trying to see past my bias : A loose streak always feels infinite. (Just before I did this topic for example, i won 1 game and lost 4 and the last weeks all felt like this).

Also : The average 234 points HURT MY SOUL.


Anyway time to unrust a little bit more, see you on the battlefield.

Edited by Veolfen, 25 June 2021 - 11:51 AM.

[Khobai]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 25 June 2021 - 07:58 AM, said:

Dunno man, seems like we live in different realities.

How so? Also the OP seems to have experiences similar to my own with regard to long range high alpha builds being prolific and brawling being in a generally weaker state. So im curious how your reality differs because thats every game I play now...

Edited by Khobai, 25 June 2021 - 09:28 AM.

[pbiggz]

Hey boss,

despite the noise some people are making in here, there are plenty of places you can go to up your game if you're interested. There's a competitive discord you can visit (don't be scared, you don't have to be competitive and the guys there are all pretty approachable and plenty willing to share their insights), and you may also be interested in joining a unit. Big or small. There are still plenty around and many I expect wouldn't demand much of a play time commitment, rather they'll just offer the chance for you to play with more people.

Playing with friends is the best way to experience this game in my opinion, and it really helps give you room to improve if you feel the need to.

You're already leaps and bounds ahead of some of the more, shall we say, vocal, members of this community; because you're having a hard time, and you're being introspective about it. That's a really good place to start.

[YueFei]

I drive Mediums 100% of the time, and my experience is that I do much more consistently in brawl builds. My Win/Loss is consistently higher in brawling Mediums, around ~1.5 W/L across hundreds of games, whereas in mid-range or long-range builds my Win/Loss is closer to ~1.0 W/L.
(Disclaimer: Could just be that I'm terrible at using mid-range or long-range builds.)

I also notice that I feel much more fragile in mechs which lack good shield arms, which if used well can soak an extra 80+ damage. I recently went back to my first ever mech, the Hunchback, and it felt incredibly fragile to me, because its skinny arms most often fail to tank the hits so the shoulders get blown off instead. In contrast, the Shadowhawk and Wolverine have big chonky arms which can be used consistently to block incoming fire.

So maybe try using some brawly Mediums with brawny arms and see how that goes?

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 25 June 2021 - 06:30 AM, said:

its not the builds that have changed its the meta. its not uncommon for half of an entire team to be PPC/Gauss snipers now.

Lol half... Sure thing.

Khobai, on 25 June 2021 - 09:26 AM, said:

How so? Also the OP seems to have experiences similar to my own with regard to long range high alpha builds being prolific and brawling being in a generally weaker state. So im curious how your reality differs because thats every game I play now...

Khobai, on 25 June 2021 - 06:30 AM, said:

the reason why people die so fast now is because they walk out in the open and get themselves focused down by PPFLD alphas or just big alphastrikes in general.

Khobai, on 25 June 2021 - 09:26 AM, said:

And brawling is considerably weaker now. You might as well not even bother with brawling builds. Some people will tell you brawling is fine but its really not. Its the least viable playstyle right now.

Myself and others have seen how you play many times lately. I would suggest your don't walk out in the open. You might then find brawling everything works better.

Khobai, on 25 June 2021 - 06:30 AM, said:

you cant play the game like you used to. you will die instantly if you try to play it like you used to be able to.

That's a mighty big assumption give you have not seen how the OP plays.

His stats suggest he isn't too far off where he has been in previous months. In fact he's had some months almost exactly the same as this one. Does that means all the other times he was playing wrong too? Despite the fact nothing in the game had changed at those points he returned?

You argument is falling apart, again.

Khobai, on 25 June 2021 - 06:30 AM, said:

you now have to spend half the game playing hide and poke. its incredibly boring now unfortunately. if theres supposed to be a wider variation of weapons im not seeing it all I see are PPCs/Gauss/Autocannons/Lasers/and sometimes MRMs in every single game I play.

Sounds like a reasonable spread of weapons to me.

Before April which was just cUAC, cERPPC every single game I played*



*Completely anecdotal statement which conveniently made up to suit my argument.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 25 June 2021 - 07:14 AM, said:

what the... ?!

How is he wrong?

As someone who exclusively plays brawler builds in all weight classes I can tell you brawling is much more difficult than even 2 years ago - let alone during release days. After I came back in 2020 from a long break I wound up buying around 20-25 new mechs because the old staples were obsolete with the weapon changes and new mechs added to the game that vastly out perform older mechs.

There is much higher risk since even Medium mechs can carry a 70+ alpha now. FLD Alphas keep hitting harder and harder while mech survivability has stayed the same.

[Daneel Hazen]

Even if you yolo and die... your enemies present their backs to your teammates cowering like a bunch of slack jawed freebirths betwixt terrain features. Go for the gusto and never pilot IS except the Urbanmech. For great justice.