180 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

MyriadDigits, on 29 June 2021 - 11:24 PM, said:

I'll say it again: If you can't perform in a 48kph mech, the fault lies with the pilot and not the mech.

Besides, the DWF can pack an incredible amount of firepower, it does not need free speed tweak. The thing is incredibly powerful already, and would probably be grotesquely so if you slapped an extra 16.8kph (presumably) to itfor free.

again the DWF is at a huge disadvantage to other clan assaults because it doesnt have endosteel or FF

the kodiak is basically like a 105 ton mech because it can take endosteel. its getting 5 tons to play with the direwolf doesnt. and by taking a bigger engine the kodiak gains back the crit slots it loses to endosteel by being able to take more internal heatsinks.

So yes the direwolf should get compensated for not having ES/FF And a max speed quirk is an easy way to do that that helps everybody in the game by making it faster.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Khobai, on 30 June 2021 - 12:51 AM, said:

again the DWF is at a huge disadvantage to other clan assaults because it doesnt have endosteel or FF

the kodiak is basically like a 105 ton mech because it can take endosteel. its getting 5 tons to play with the direwolf doesnt. and by taking a bigger engine the kodiak gains back the crit slots it loses to endosteel by being able to take more internal heatsinks.

So yes the direwolf should get compensated for not having ES/FF And a max speed quirk is an easy way to do that that helps everybody in the game by making it faster.

Naaah it's fine.

[PocketYoda]

Assault mechs have one roll.... Assaulting the opposition.. if you aren't breaking through the enemies front and getting at least one kill (preferably more) you aren't assaulting right.

They are designed to smash the enemy so the rest can roll over them.

Edited by MechaGnome, 30 June 2021 - 05:05 AM.

[pbiggz]

Khobai, on 30 June 2021 - 12:51 AM, said:

again the DWF is at a huge disadvantage to other clan assaults because it doesnt have endosteel or FF

the kodiak is basically like a 105 ton mech because it can take endosteel. its getting 5 tons to play with the direwolf doesnt. and by taking a bigger engine the kodiak gains back the crit slots it loses to endosteel by being able to take more internal heatsinks.

So yes the direwolf should get compensated for not having ES/FF And a max speed quirk is an easy way to do that that helps everybody in the game by making it faster.

The Direwolf has 52 tons of podspace. Free weight isn't the problem on that thing. The engine desync did it dirty and the fact that, as a clan mech it received zero durability quirks.

Agility at least has been addressed, if the Direwolf needs help, its with durability only.

[justcallme A S H]

MyriadDigits, on 29 June 2021 - 10:35 PM, said:

48kph very much is functional, if you struggle to perform with 48kph heavies and assaults the fault lies with you.

Besides, not only would engine cap not save omnimechs with their locked engines, but frankly most players probably wouldn't bother pushing to it since engine mass increases exponentially, and engines past 300 quickly start to become obscenely heavy.

Some of my 100T are slower then 48 - and they do just fine.

In fact they are carrying such big power weaponry they quite literally annihilate the enemy due to the raw stopping power.

It does take smart positioning and good gamesense of course to make them work although that applies to every mech IMO.

[Khobai]

denAirwalkerrr, on 30 June 2021 - 03:36 AM, said:

Naaah it's fine.

one screenshot doesnt prove anything. for every screenshot you post there are probably hundreds of examples of players dying in direwolves with less than 200 match score because they couldnt keep up with their teams.

justcallme A S H, on 30 June 2021 - 05:19 AM, said:

Some of my 100T are slower then 48 - and they do just fine.

In fact they are carrying such big power weaponry they quite literally annihilate the enemy due to the raw stopping power.

It does take smart positioning and good gamesense of course to make them work although that applies to every mech IMO.

the point is not to stop mechs from going slower than 48 if they choose to run slower engines

the point is to give those mechs the ability to go faster than 48 if they choose to run faster engines

and the direwolf is absolutely at a disadvantage by not having endosteel or ferrofibrous because it loses out on potential tonnage that other clan assaults like the kodiak get. so a max speed quirk on the direwolf is entirely reasonable as a means of compensation for not having ES or FF.

its time to increase the max speed of the slowest mechs in the game. because we both know it doesnt promote good gameplay habits in quickplay to have such a huge speed disparity between mechs. It benefits everyone in quickplay to have all mechs going closer to the same speed.

and 4kph is not a big ask. its entirely reasonable. please present my suggestion to cauldron since you always claim cauldron listens.

+7.5% max speed quirk for direwolf
and
+25 max engine cap for annihilator and other mechs that max out at 300 engine rating

thanks

Edited by Khobai, 30 June 2021 - 07:44 AM.

[Castigatus]

Present it yourself Khobai, its your idea.

[Vindicated]

Khobai, on 30 June 2021 - 07:16 AM, said:

one screenshot doesnt prove anything. for every screenshot you post there are probably hundreds of examples of players dying in direwolves with less than 200 match score because they couldnt keep up with their teams.

They shouldn't be keeping up with their teams. They should be holding a strong position. Technically it's the other way around, the team should be keeping up with the DWF (stay within/near/able to fall back to its line of sight for protection) not the light mechs. Nascar is usually people in non-fast mechs trying to follow the fast mechs which can also hurt flanking if the enemy has to look in just one direction.

In canyon for example, dropping to the trench in an assault mech is usually (and still is) a death sentence. Especially if your team gives up the high ground and faster mechs move up unpressured to shoot down on you.

Khobai, on 30 June 2021 - 07:16 AM, said:

It benefits everyone in quickplay to have all mechs going closer to the same speed.

I think I'm understanding better how you want to play. Move to the right and ring around the rosie? However, didn't you say brawling is weak? You know what would make brawling weaker? If mechs were close in speed and thus able to run away from the brawlers such that the brawlers could never close into their distance. Keep in mind one thing, some mechs can shoot about/near 180 degrees behind them (arm weapons, not just the urbie) or at least enough behind them to run and gun. In said case, ambush brawling (where you catch the enemy near your range) wouldn't be affected, but trying to close in on the enemy from a distance? That will be worse.

Also that makes game play more dangerous for light/fast mechs. Speed differential applies here as well. If you are in a light mech and get chased, you cannot run away out of the enemy firing distance as easily.

[Khobai]

Considering your average direwolf play dies to a flea

im not really convinced they dont need to keep up with their team better

slow assaults get left behind in quickplay. it happens all the time. speeding them up a little would help with that.

Vindicated, on 30 June 2021 - 09:52 AM, said:

I think I'm understanding better how you want to play. Move to the right and ring around the rosie?

that is how EVERYONE plays. it is unavoidable in quickplay. you and I both know that.

irregardless i see no harm in slightly increasing the speed of the slowest mechs in the game. I see absolutely no balance issues with upping the max speed of mechs like the direwolf and annihilator to 52kph. and I see a ton of benefits to doing so.

do you have an actual reason why the max speed of the slowest mechs shouldnt be increased from 48kph to 52kph? or are you just arguing with me for the sake of arguing like so many people seem to love to do.

Edited by Khobai, 30 June 2021 - 10:03 AM.

[Vindicated]

Khobai, on 30 June 2021 - 09:54 AM, said:

Considering your average direwolf play dies to a flea

Wouldn't help either way. If a flea comes up to you there is no way you're going to outrun it. The best thing you can do is see it and then shoot it. If you don't have line of sight to its approach, you aren't going to do it. So you can either be in a position where you can see and shoot them from a distance or in one where they close in on you for free. Yes, technically the team should be helping with that map coverage which is unfortunate.

Usually it happens because the left flank is 100% unwatched and provides a free path to advance. If the team is rotating and not watching, a mech that is within 100m of multiple teammates is still going to get picked off. Happens all the time that the team is looking in one direction and unwilling to shoot in the other. And in my experiences, that is an 81kph mech (VGL/HBR) getting picked off.

Khobai, on 30 June 2021 - 09:54 AM, said:

that is how EVERYONE plays. it is unavoidable in quickplay. you and I both know that.

And then throws matches. If a team doesn't nascar and instead sets up to predict a probable movement from the left flank, they have the upper hand. From past experience, two assault mechs in a good position can stand up quite well to the nascar, enough to win the game.

A lot of people say nascar is a winning strategy and that is more of a skill gap than anything. If the people at the back are better players and better shots, they will stand up better. If the people in faster mechs nascaring are better players and better shots and have good awareness, they will take down the enemy faster than the enemy takes them down.

Edited by Vindicated, 30 June 2021 - 10:13 AM.

[Khobai]

Vindicated, on 30 June 2021 - 10:11 AM, said:

Wouldn't help either way. If a flea comes up to you there is no way you're going to outrun it. The best thing you can do is see i

if you go 52kph at the start of the match instead of 48kph theres a much better chance of being closer to a teammate that can help you

4kph makes a noticeable difference

[Vindicated]

Khobai, on 30 June 2021 - 10:15 AM, said:

if you go 52kph at the start of the match instead of 48kph theres a much better chance of being closer to a teammate that can help you

4kph makes a noticeable difference

It does make a noticeable difference, but not in that way. But like I said, if nascar happens, an 81kph mech is still going to suffer. That has been my personal experience. The team is not going to cover the flank if all they are doing is moving in one direction.

The advantage of a faster assault mech is not to keep with nascar. It is to set up more quickly into a good position. 52kph is not going to prevent you from being left behind. I've been that guy in an LRM fafnir which goes that speed and is also a mech that cannot shoot fight back at close range.

[Khobai]

actually 52kph does let you keep up much better with the other assaults in your assault lance.

where 48kph gets you left behind even by other assaults

[Bud Crue]

I guess I am indifferent to the proposal of adding 4kph to the base of the slowest mechs in the game, but I can’t fathom how those 4 lil extra kph are going to address the main points being raised in support of the idea (reduce chance of being left behind, getting hit by a Flea, etc.). I occasionally play a Blood Asp doing 64 and it gets left behind on occasion, hell, last night two of us were in Victors doing 72 and we got left behind on Canyon. Point being, that based on what I see in games, adding a bit of speed to the slowest mechs would not change anything in terms of their survivability in the nascar game that most of us seem to play.

As to the Dire…more often than not the thing is a guaranteed up arrow, even at 48kph (or 52 kph, which btw is what I believe mine runs at via skills). Giving it some sort of performance bump to account for its lack of Ferro and Endo as proposed above would potentially make it outright OP.

Edited by Bud Crue, 30 June 2021 - 10:36 AM.

[pattonesque]

Yeah like, the thing about big assaults is that even if they get left behind -- which happens at 48, 52, 64, and 72 kph -- they pack enough firepower to make someone pay for it. The last two times i got left behind and jumped in my NSR-9S with 2 UAC/20 and the HSL+ quirk, I just picked one dude who thought he had an easy kill and took him with me.

But that requires people not to panic and scream and cry and instead actually try to win the game.

[Vindicated]

Bud Crue, on 30 June 2021 - 10:35 AM, said:

As to the Dire…more often than not the thing is a guaranteed up arrow, even at 48kph (or 52 kph, which btw is what I believe mine runs at via skills). Giving it some sort of performance bump to account for its lack of Ferro and Endo as proposed above would potentially make it outright OP.

The quirk the DWF needs most is to give some non-prime CT the armor quirk of the prime. Lots of people have basic UV without the prime CT. People running the 8AC2 UV without prime CT are technically suboptimal. This should be addressed via the same CT quirk or possibly some other buff that makes the UV CT desirable to run other than C-bill bonus and paintjob/name.

[Bud Crue]

Vindicated, on 30 June 2021 - 10:47 AM, said:

The quirk the DWF needs most is to give some non-prime CT the armor quirk of the prime. Lots of people have basic UV without the prime CT. People running the 8AC2 UV without prime CT are technically suboptimal. This should be addressed via the same CT quirk or possibly some other buff that makes the UV CT desirable to run other than C-bill bonus and paintjob/name.

Sounds good to me, but speaking only for myself, the UV may be suboptimal, but it works fine for me, as is, the majority of the time.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Khobai, on 30 June 2021 - 07:16 AM, said:

one screenshot doesnt prove anything. for every screenshot you post there are probably hundreds of examples of players dying in direwolves with less than 200 match score because they couldnt keep up with their teams.

Their problem for playing the mech wrong. I personally have almost 1k average damage on the chassis because for each 400 damage game I die to nascar I'm getting 1.5k damage game where enemy can do nothing against how much firepower this mech carries.

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 30 June 2021 - 11:15 AM.

[FinnMcKool]

in quirk play you don't get a lot of choices, of who your team mates are, but you still need them or your just as bad as you say they are (just playing for yourself)

I play a kitfox sometimes and its build is only to support those slow but powerful mechs , and I don't get any rewards form the game for it, ................ BUT its fun

I play a team game because its fun, its fun to win

[Leone]

Khobai, on 30 June 2021 - 07:16 AM, said:

its time to increase the max speed of the slowest mechs in the game. because we both know it doesnt promote good gameplay habits in quickplay to have such a huge speed disparity between mechs. It benefits everyone in quickplay to have all mechs going closer to the same speed.

and 4kph is not a big ask. its entirely reasonable. please present my suggestion to cauldron since you always claim cauldron listens.

Okay, but the the Daishi should be put on the back burner for this as there're slower mechs that need more love. The entire urbanmech list often goes 32 kph, which I would point out is far slower than the Direwolf. Also, I've shadowhawks, hunchbacks and... A cataphract I believe that all go 48kph or a under. We should buff those mechs first, since they don't even have the durability of a direwolf. By that logic at least.

And that's just the ones I remember offa the top of my head. After using the direwolf and realizing that their slow speed keeps me from outrunning the pack in quickplay, I ended up under-engineing alotta my mechs for quickplay to keep me from engaging alone.

Wait.. in that case, wouldn't a speed increase nerf my mechs as I'd then be engaging sooner without my team as backup? I see what you're doing here, and I disapprove.

I've changed my stance, mech speeds are fine as is.

~Leone.