31 replies to this topic

[JigSaw73]

I don't know where to be heard, but I've been playing a lot again recently. I think the game has a huge "tactical shaped hole" in the way it launches. It should be:

1. Get on a Team in a LOBBY.

2. See the MAP (Vote? ...why is there a vote - illusion of choice?).

3. Select your MECH loadout (specific Mech, Loadout, and Camo/Colors).

4. LAUNCH

Please and thank you.

[1453 R]

Do you want to see twenty-four completely and perfectly identical 'Mechs in every last single game of MWO you ever play again for the entire foreseeable future?

Because this is how you get that precise situation.

No. Build your 'Mech, click "Go", and fight where the game puts you.

[ScrapIron Prime]

JigSaw73, on 18 August 2021 - 07:29 AM, said:

I don't know where to be heard, but I've been playing a lot again recently. I think the game has a huge "tactical shaped hole" in the way it launches. It should be:

1. Get on a Team in a LOBBY.

2. See the MAP (Vote? ...why is there a vote - illusion of choice?).

3. Select your MECH loadout (specific Mech, Loadout, and Camo/Colors).

4. LAUNCH

Please and thank you.

You have more or less described how Faction Play works. Set up your drop deck, get on a team, launch. There's not a lot of folks playing Faction right now, so there may be some wait time, but give it a shot and see what you think.

[John Bronco]

Go ahead and enjoy yourself some FP.

But most people don't play it because nascar opportunities are non-existent.

[JediPanther]

More like FP is all about who has the most meta or who is better at the guass erppc trades. At least in qp you can have some fun with a lot less meta.

[GoodTry]

They are not going to make these kinds of changes at this stage in the game.

But it would be nice if you could select TWO mechs before hitting "Quick Play," and then choose one of the two before the map drops. That way you could avoid disasterous combinations, like SRM mechs on Alpine. As is, I tend to save up my map votes just in case I see a really bad map/mech combo coming...

[crazytimes]

John Bronco, on 18 August 2021 - 08:20 AM, said:

Go ahead and enjoy yourself some FP.

But most people don't play it because nascar opportunities are non-existent.

Like almost the entire population of the game, I also don't play FP. I have played a few times. By played I mean "spent almost my entire weekly gaming time waiting for 24 people in the right distribution of teams, then finally got a match".

They went a bit like this.
- First match my team was all skilled mechs, the enemy were mostly running trial mechs. We just farmed damage without any actual risk. Not particularly fun, it was just seal clubbing, but low reward.
- Second and third I was grouped with someone who knew what they were doing. Played two matches. They were a bit more trade oriented than QP, overall fun.
- Fourth match my team was mixed, the enemy team had about an 8 man group running LRMs and a couple of NARCers. 48-3. Sort of like fun, but different.

Overall, the time spent waiting was many times what was spent actually playing. The huge variation in team quality, and exposure of trial mechs to potential 12 man pre-mades, is not conducive to attractive fun to most people. It's like Solaris. Tiny niche crowd, and no amount of insulting people in the forums is going to make people want to play it more.

[Monkey Lover]

John Bronco, on 18 August 2021 - 08:20 AM, said:

Go ahead and enjoy yourself some FP.

But most people don't play it because nascar opportunities are non-existent.

I would take nascar over having to push a choke point for no reason other than the game told me it's my turn to do it.

[Vamboozle]

JigSaw73, on 18 August 2021 - 07:29 AM, said:

I don't know where to be heard, but I've been playing a lot again recently. I think the game has a huge "tactical shaped hole" in the way it launches. It should be:

1. Get on a Team in a LOBBY.

2. See the MAP (Vote? ...why is there a vote - illusion of choice?).

3. Select your MECH loadout (specific Mech, Loadout, and Camo/Colors).

4. LAUNCH

Please and thank you.

But where’s the fun in that?

Yes sometimes I get frustrated when I get Solaris City in an LRM boat or Terra Therma in a hot running laser boat but then the challenge is dealing with it.

My main problem with QP is finding myself fighting over the same couple of squares every time…..but that’s a minor annoyance

[The Basilisk]

John Bronco, on 18 August 2021 - 08:20 AM, said:

Go ahead and enjoy yourself some FP.

But most people don't play it because nascar opportunities are non-existent.

no most ppl do not play it because they get ganked by spawncamping tryhard minmax exploiters hanging around slobbering in FP to get of on how noobish they think other players are.

[justcallme A S H]

The Basilisk, on 20 August 2021 - 02:58 AM, said:

exploiters

ROFL

[justcallme A S H]

JigSaw73, on 18 August 2021 - 07:29 AM, said:

3. Select your MECH loadout (specific Mech, Loadout, and Camo/Colors).

Then you would see real tactics.

Every large map would be a ERL/ERPPC camp-fest for 15mins. Do people really want that type of game?

Any anyone that is learning the game, still buying mechs, trying to skill mechs is massively disadvantaged.



Hot tip - Answer: Do not want.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 20 August 2021 - 03:17 AM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

John Bronco, on 18 August 2021 - 08:20 AM, said:

Go ahead and enjoy yourself some FP.

But most people don't play it because nascar opportunities are non-existent.

Main reason why I don't play FP as much anymore is because it's not easy to dedicate 30+ minutes in a single match. As much as I like FP I can see why most folks would choose QP over FP due to time limit constraints. At least with QP if you get a garbage team you can end the match quicker and move forward to the next match instead of getting killed in spawn when choosing a new mech.

[JigSaw73]

So, all these comments that basically say the game is unplayable if you know what map is coming BEFORE you select your Mech...

All the other video games (some wildly successful) that allow you to pick your character/weapons/skins BEFORE you drop into the map are unplayable? I think a lot of players and game developers out there would disagree.

God forbid other limitations get put into the game to balance it, right? 8v8 w/ only (2) Mechs from each class allowed... Tonnage limits based on map... Clan v IS game modes... IS v IS game modes... 8v8 w/ only (1) Assault and (1) Light allowed per team... whatever else smarter people than me can figure out...

Or maybe players would get TACTICAL and experiment w/ builds that counter the map Meta, instead of everyone launching in a 4xPPC build on every cold map. It might get fun being tactical...maybe.

I played MW4 for many years, online multiplayer, and it wasn't a game-crippling issue to know what map you had before you selected your Mech.

[justcallme A S H]

You have failed to address a single thing I raised in my post.

Well done.

[John Bronco]

It's not "unplayable" but you'd end up with the same static map meta that you see in FP, which heavily favors long range play, which based on the amount of crying I see in QP when a team has 1-2 "snipers" is not going to go over well.

You're simply trading one problem for another much bigger problem.

Edited by John Bronco, 20 August 2021 - 06:57 AM.

[1453 R]

All right. Let's do this.

JigSaw73, on 20 August 2021 - 06:03 AM, said:

So, all these comments that basically say the game is unplayable if you know what map is coming BEFORE you select your Mech...

All the other video games (some wildly successful) that allow you to pick your character/weapons/skins BEFORE you drop into the map are unplayable? I think a lot of players and game developers out there would disagree.

Name one. name one such game where you can select a character/loadout prior to dropping and are then locked into that loadout throughout the map. Name some games. Give some concrete examples to debate, don't just say "well they exist! DX" and expect people to suddenly agree with you.

JigSaw73, on 20 August 2021 - 06:03 AM, said:

God forbid other limitations get put into the game to balance it, right? 8v8 w/ only (2) Mechs from each class allowed... Tonnage limits based on map... Clan v IS game modes... IS v IS game modes... 8v8 w/ only (1) Assault and (1) Light allowed per team... whatever else smarter people than me can figure out...

Not one single stitch of these examples has any chance whatsoever of fixing your issue. It doesn't matter which weight class you're forced to play - if you know the exact scenario in front of you, you'll bring whatever the default standard best thing for it is. That Best Thing will just be on mediums - and also you'll be seeing a lot of player anger and aggression because whoever locks in their assault 'Mech first gets to play what they want, and everyone else gets to suck one. Naw. And the usual "just take the Clans away and everything is balanced FOREVER!" ******** doesn't even make sense in this argument.

There would have to be smarter people on it indeed, because not one single suggestion you make would impact the Default Standard Loadout for a given map/mode in the absolute slightest.

JigSaw73, on 20 August 2021 - 06:03 AM, said:

Or maybe players would get TACTICAL and experiment w/ builds that counter the map Meta, instead of everyone launching in a 4xPPC build on every cold map. It might get fun being tactical...maybe.

Please. How do you out-clever a wall of Goose/PPC snipers in Alpine? A murderball of high-DPS brawlers in Solaris? Scads of ERLL vomit in Frozen F@#$ing City? There's no clever-stratageming your way around an entire team of people all playing the same-*** build, which means they all stick together and do mostly the same thing. No single solo player - and remember, that's all anyone cares about, ne? - is gonna be able to out-meta the meta with some weirdboi concoction, any more than they did in Faction Play. Naw. 'The Meta' is what it is because it's the best way to win games. That's why they call it the meta.

The game is at its best when the meta is fuzzy and there's room for multiple different builds to find their fight and go on a tear. Uncertain map/mode drops is a big part of how that fuzziness is maintained. The more variables you remove, the more certainty you add to each drop, the more things players know before they click 'Go', the worse the game gets for typical players.

JigSaw73, on 20 August 2021 - 06:03 AM, said:

I played MW4 for many years, online multiplayer, and it wasn't a game-crippling issue to know what map you had before you selected your Mech.

MW4's multiplayer was also a side-thing also-ran that the developers didn't really care about, that a very small number of people did intermittently on much different maps.

What you want is "I wanna know EXACTLY what range I'll be fighting at, and how hot the map is, so I can bring the perfect armament for that map!" What makes you think the rest of the world won't do exactly the same thing, and thus turn every single game of MWO into a samey snorefest? To say nothing of A S H's point that new players without a stupendous bloated collection of 'Mechs tuned for every possible map/mode are put at a tremendous disadvantage. New players in this game already take it in the hind end harder than virtually any other multiplayer game in existence - why make it even harder on them?

To get what you want, every single map in MWO would have to be ripped out and replaced with maps designed such that there is no 'best' way to play them. No sniper-friendly maps like Alpine, no brawler-friendly maps like Solaris, no maps with a bias. You'd also likely have to inject mutators or modifiers into the system to alter the map in play, something like Severe Storm or Electromagnetic Interference - things that change the map up, and which can alter the equation and make it fuzzier. It would require more effort on Piranha's part than they have ever put into maps by severalfold, and it'd result in far fewer maps to play on overall because each one is such a huge burden to make.

Does that sound like more fun to you, Jig? Legit curious - if MWO was played on only four maps, or hell - only one map, EVER - would that make it a better game?

[Verilligo]

JigSaw73, on 20 August 2021 - 06:03 AM, said:

I played MW4 for many years, online multiplayer, and it wasn't a game-crippling issue to know what map you had before you selected your Mech.

As someone that also spent an obscene amount of time playing MW4 online, this is a damned lie and you should know better for saying it. You INSTANTLY saw more Black Knights and Nova Cats when a cold map was picked than when Dust Bowl was chosen. Urban map? Say hello to LBX Madcat Mark IIs. The ILLUSION of it not being game-crippling was because most MW4 servers allowed respawns. Balance between weight classes was done by lighter mechs earning more points than heavier mechs for damage and kills. You cannot simply transplant MW4 online into MWO, there are fundamental design decisions that have been made that are incompatible with how things were done in that game.

[PocketYoda]

JigSaw73, on 18 August 2021 - 07:29 AM, said:

I don't know where to be heard, but I've been playing a lot again recently. I think the game has a huge "tactical shaped hole" in the way it launches. It should be:

1. Get on a Team in a LOBBY.

2. See the MAP (Vote? ...why is there a vote - illusion of choice?).

3. Select your MECH loadout (specific Mech, Loadout, and Camo/Colors).

4. LAUNCH

Please and thank you.

Totally agree that is how MWO should operate but well you have those other players that disagree. Voice should have worked in Map chat and selecting mechs as well.. Ah well the next mech game i suppose..

JigSaw73, on 20 August 2021 - 06:03 AM, said:

So, all these comments that basically say the game is unplayable if you know what map is coming BEFORE you select your Mech...

All the other video games (some wildly successful) that allow you to pick your character/weapons/skins BEFORE you drop into the map are unplayable? I think a lot of players and game developers out there would disagree.

God forbid other limitations get put into the game to balance it, right? 8v8 w/ only (2) Mechs from each class allowed... Tonnage limits based on map... Clan v IS game modes... IS v IS game modes... 8v8 w/ only (1) Assault and (1) Light allowed per team... whatever else smarter people than me can figure out...

Or maybe players would get TACTICAL and experiment w/ builds that counter the map Meta, instead of everyone launching in a 4xPPC build on every cold map. It might get fun being tactical...maybe.

I played MW4 for many years, online multiplayer, and it wasn't a game-crippling issue to know what map you had before you selected your Mech.

You are blowing into the wind friend.. The forums are over run by people who like the broken design of MWO because they "exploit" the broken group mechanics and matchmaker daily to their advantage they don't like that changed and PGI wont be bothered changing anything that big at this late point in its life..

You either play MWO in its broken state or move on.

Edited by MechaGnome, 20 August 2021 - 06:11 PM.

[Xorkrath]

I've wanted something similar for this game because I feel that the system as it currently stands is backwards from what it should have been. Even prior mechwarrior games (to the best of my recollection) allowed you to see the circumstances of the game before choosing your mech and heading in.

I think the problem is that the game, down to it's very core, was programmed in a way to commit players to a mech before a match, and there's no way to fix that without rebuilding the game entirely. And that is probably not something that can be done within a reasonable amount of time and would cost a large fortune.

But yes, the current system is wrong and should be changed the next time a Mechwarrior game launches.

What I'd like to see personally, is something that makes for better multiplayer as well as being a nod to the lore. You should be able to launch into quickplay via a bid for tonnage, within a small range. Let's say one bracket is 45-50 tons. Then maps and mode are selected, and you have the opportunity to select whatever mechs you own within that tonnage bracket to launch into the map.

That would allow for a much better player experience all-around and lead to higher player satisfaction. Giving players more control over their gameplay is always the correct choice - I cite the current map and mode selection as an example of just such a thing that is a great idea to give players better control over their experience.