26 replies to this topic

[Valdarion Silarius]

pattonesque, on 21 August 2021 - 10:17 AM, said:

caustic is next on the list I believe

Yeah I just got to that in the video. Thank goodness.

Also, I find it interesting that Phil keeps pushing his ideas for quirk removal. As much as I like listening to his input on things I have to hard disagree with him there. While I do think mechs shouldn't have an over reliance on quirks, it would completely negate mechs that rely on those quirks to have any unique identity.

[FupDup]

Arnold The Governator, on 21 August 2021 - 11:03 AM, said:

Also, I find it interesting that Phil keeps pushing his ideas for quirk removal. As much as I like listening to his input on things I have to hard disagree with him there. While I do think mechs shouldn't have an over reliance on quirks, it would completely negate mechs that rely on those quirks to have any unique identity.

The thing about the anti-quirk crowd is that they never propose an alternative way to make the bad mechs usable without quirks. Removing quirks from a bad mech doesn't make it less quirk reliant, it just makes it useless.

Quirks are a bit sloppy and can feel hamfisted at times, but they are completely necessary as a counterbalance to the inherent inequalities baked into Battletech.

[TercieI]

FupDup, on 21 August 2021 - 12:16 PM, said:

The thing about the anti-quirk crowd is that they never propose an alternative way to make the bad mechs usable without quirks. Removing quirks from a bad mech doesn't make it less quirk reliant, it just makes it useless.

Quirks are a bit sloppy and can feel hamfisted at times, but they are completely necessary as a counterbalance to the inherent inequalities baked into Battletech.

Exactly. The goal should be to have all variants be workable on a similar level. It's impossible, of course, but it should be the goal. Quirks are pretty much the only option in a world where things like the JR7-K (literally the -D less a hardpoint) exist. I would love to see quirks be more creative, more varied and more variant specific, but abandoning them wholly is nuts and consigns 80-90% of variants to being sub-optimal.

I think most of the anti-quirk folks like to trot out "don't pigeonhole mechs!" but that's silly too IMO. With over 600 variants, they just can't all be useful without some pigeonholing.

[FupDup]

TercieI, on 21 August 2021 - 12:27 PM, said:

Exactly. The goal should be to have all variants be workable on a similar level. It's impossible, of course, but it should be the goal. Quirks are pretty much the only option in a world where things like the JR7-K (literally the -D less a hardpoint) exist. I would love to see quirks be more creative, more varied and more variant specific, but abandoning them wholly is nuts and consigns 80-90% of variants to being sub-optimal.

I think most of the anti-quirk folks like to trot out "don't pigeonhole mechs!" but that's silly too IMO. With over 600 variants, they just can't all be useful without some pigeonholing.

The pigeonholing thing can also be solved with fewer weapon-specific quirks and more generic ones, which we saw some more of in the August patch notes.

[TercieI]

FupDup, on 21 August 2021 - 12:31 PM, said:

The pigeonholing thing can also be solved with fewer weapon-specific quirks and more generic ones, which we saw some more of in the August patch notes.

And that's fine. I don't even see it as a problem. For my money, the game has never been as fun as it was in the second and third passes of the original quirkening. That was *fun*.

[FupDup]

TercieI, on 21 August 2021 - 12:40 PM, said:

And that's fine. I don't even see it as a problem. For my money, the game has never been as fun as it was in the second and third passes of the original quirkening. That was *fun*.

I also preferred the original version but I can understand why people didn't like super-specific weapon quirks. I'd rather have family quirks instead of going completely generic though, i.e. pulse laser range instead of laser range. That lets people try different builds while still giving the mech a somewhat specific role.

Omnis can keep fully generic quirks because it helps emphasize their intended flexibility advantage over Battlemechs.

Edited by FupDup, 21 August 2021 - 12:51 PM.

[TercieI]

FupDup, on 21 August 2021 - 12:45 PM, said:

I also preferred the original version but I can understand why people didn't like super-specific weapon quirks. I'd rather have family quirks instead of going completely generic though, i.e. pulse laser range instead of laser range. That lets people try different builds while still giving the mech a somewhat specific role.

In many cases, I can see that. But for the really garbage variants, I'm not sure it's enough.

And I want my uber quirked 4MPL JR7-K back!

Edited by TercieI, 21 August 2021 - 12:53 PM.