10 replies to this topic

[ShiverMeRivets]

The effect of this quirk does not show on the weapons tool tip. Does it apply to all MGs (light/regular/heavy), or just the regular one?
To be more specific, from the notes of the recent patch:
PXH-3S:

• Increased MG Rof to 50% (from 25%)

(The -1 and -1B variants also get this).</p>

[ThreeStooges]

Hard to tell unless you have a mech with the mg rof with skill for velocity and quirks for velocity that you can go into testing grounds and record to see if there is any difference. Mg rof seems to be the default gun quirk on a lot of mechs with any bal slot which makes for funny reading when you browser the in-game store to see what base quirks a mech has.

[LordNothing]

i want to say it does, but ive been wrong before.

[dario03]

ShiverMeRivets, on 20 October 2021 - 11:54 AM, said:

The effect of this quirk does not show on the weapons tool tip. Does it apply to all MGs (light/regular/heavy), or just the regular one?
To be more specific, from the notes of the recent patch:
PXH-3S:

• Increased MG Rof to 50% (from 25%)

(The -1 and -1B variants also get this).</p>

Its for all of them.

[Curccu]

ThreeStooges, on 20 October 2021 - 04:54 PM, said:

Hard to tell unless you have a mech with the mg rof with skill for velocity and quirks for velocity that you can go into testing grounds and record to see if there is any difference.

Velocity what why? MG is hitscan weapon.

[caravann]

Curccu, on 20 October 2021 - 08:53 PM, said:

Velocity what why? MG is hitscan weapon.

It is hits scan but the velocity increase the damage.

I do not think that the quirk work for anything else than what it says,

But the state is clear. It doesn't change velocity.

Faster Rate of fire for machine guns is just how many times it checked for a critical hit.

Every time you see the paperdoll being struck is what the rate of fire is doing.

Not if the actual damage is any better.

[Curccu]

caravann, on 21 October 2021 - 04:12 AM, said:

It is hits scan but the velocity increase the damage.

I do not think that the quirk work for anything else than what it says,

But the state is clear. It doesn't change velocity.

Faster Rate of fire for machine guns is just how many times it checked for a critical hit.

Every time you see the paperdoll being struck is what the rate of fire is doing.

Not if the actual damage is any better.

!st time I have heard that velocity would increase damage of those... must have missed some patch notes.
As I understand it and mech DB backs it up:
fle-fa mech without extra ROF or Velocity 1 DPS
bsw-p2 mech with extra 20% ROF, no Velocity 1.2 DPS
cn9-ylw mech without extra ROF, 10% extra velocity 1.0 DPS
At least mech DB doesn't give any extra damage from Velocity
Quirk works as extra shots --> extra shots = more damage
normally MG shoots 10 bullets in second which results as 1 DPS for each machine gun.
OPs mech have increased ROF by 50% and it now shoots 15 bullets in second which results as 1.5 DPS for each MG

And yes as my understanding each bullet has chance to do crit so more damage from there

[Horseman]

50% ROF basically makes the standard MG into a HMG at half tonnage.

[LordNothing]

these quirks are given to smaller mechs with low ballistic hardpoint counts in order to make mgs more viable an option. you can either give the smaller mechs more hardpoints, or rof quirks to make mgs usable as a primary weapon or secondary weapon. problem is none of this works on larger mechs. there are only about 8 is mechs in the game that can carry 6 guns, this includes the flea-19, the only 8 ballistic slot is mech in the game.

the arrow and jm6-dd are the only med and heavy option respectively. the arrow provides a respectable hmg boat, its 3 energy hardpoints can give it a bit more firepower. if the engine cap wasn't way down at 235 this would make a good light hunter with 3spls and 6hmgs, but as it stands its too slow for the job. its bigger brother the jm6-dd can at least carry a pair of snubs or a pair of lpls to make up for the low dps of mg/lmg and the anemic range of hmgs. neither one is a very effective build. as in most cases you will be brawling with a low alpha.

the assaults get interesting, there are four that can boat 6mgs. 2 of them offer 4 energy hardpoints which turn the mgs into a backup weapon to run while overheating. which can be ll or ppc family weapons. the anh-2a doesnt seem to work at all as 2 of the hardpoints are trapped in the ct. a snub and a couple hppcs are the best i could do. its kind of a bracket build because of the min range on the hppc. this thing doesnt even make a 40 point alpha. the cor-5t has the exact same problem.

the mauler mx90 gets interesting though, as you can slap a couple mrm40s on it. problem with mrms is they spray damage everywhere, eventually you need precision for the coup de grace, in this case it pays to use lmgs for the extended range to better synergize with the mrms, so spray and crit becomes an option. my favorate is the kgc-000, which can fit 6 hmgs, 2 mrm30s and a pair of snub ppcs. this was always one of my favorite solaris brawlers, alpha till you cant and then chew up the rest with the hmgs. it doesnt do so well in qp however. i see people use it from time to time. its just my favorite king crab build, on a mech thats known for its ability to get shot at a lot.

at this point i realize that this post has gotten out of hand and is too long to read. i was going to try and sell mg arrays, so big mechs with small numbers of hardpoints can cluster mgs. but meh, i realize there are options now.

[CrimsonPhantom6sg062]

caravann, on 21 October 2021 - 04:12 AM, said:

It is hits scan but the velocity increase the damage.

Wrong. Velocity does nothing to MGs. MGs used to be projectiles in the beta versions, but this ran into server load problems, so it became a hitscan cone spread that we see today.

Horseman, on 21 October 2021 - 12:00 PM, said:

50% ROF basically makes the standard MG into a HMG at half tonnage.

Wrong again. ROF quirks increase the damage rate of your MGs, without increasing the damage of each bullet:

Consider this: 1860 LMG bullets are required to core the front of a stock Atlas, while about 570 more bullets will destroy it.

ROF does not decrease the number of bullets required to destroy the Atlas, it just increases the rate at which all the bullets hit the Atlas. On the other hand, 1300 MG bullets will core the Atlas. So the result is similar when using 50% ROF quirk on LMGs at point blank (when considering armour), but it is achieved in a different manner.

This is significant. This means you need to stock up on more ammo as your ROF increases (because you will probably miss with more bullets), so the tonnage advantage is not nearly as great. Furthermore, since the game calculates crits per bullet, 50% ROF quirk on the standard MG does not make it into a HMG, it is actually even better. It makes it into a higher crit chance, higher accuracy HMG. This has strong implications in the MechLab.

If you do not believe me, check with any MG using: Fafnir-6U, Flea-FA, Locust-1V.


Edited: Typos.

Edited by CrimsonPhantom6sg062, 21 October 2021 - 04:59 PM.

[LordNothing]

that is assuming the game isnt modulating damage to maintain a constant tick rate, or merging ray casts on bullets fired in the same time slice. none of this is relevant to gameplay though. just tricks to speed up hit detection and reduce transmission bandwidth requirements.