I have stopped playing MWO, because they destroyed Faction play with Siege only majority of the time.
I miss playing and would like to know if MW5 is any better?
Are there s lot of people who play online?
1
Mw5 Worth Buying
Started by MountainRat, Oct 23 2021 06:05 AM
15 replies to this topic
#2
-
-
- The Privateer
- 3,242 posts
Member
Posted 23 October 2021 - 06:13 AM
MW5 is a solo game. You can play coop with other people but only the hosts progress is tracked.
There is no multiplayer in the sense of MWO because there is MWO.
And if its any good solo...well depends on who you ask. Some like it, others don't. I play it every now and then. With the latest DLC and patches it has become better.
There is no multiplayer in the sense of MWO because there is MWO.
And if its any good solo...well depends on who you ask. Some like it, others don't. I play it every now and then. With the latest DLC and patches it has become better.
Edited by Nesutizale, 23 October 2021 - 06:14 AM.
#3
-
-
- Ace Of Spades
- 17,487 posts
Member
Posted 23 October 2021 - 05:47 PM
yes and no. dont expect a masterpiece and you will be fine. get it on sale. also there is a vr mod, no vr in mwo last i checked. surprised a pvp mod has not been attempted yet.
Edited by LordNothing, 23 October 2021 - 05:53 PM.
#4
-
-
- 6,393 posts
Member
Posted 23 October 2021 - 09:49 PM
MW5 is also out for XBox and Playstation with crossplay option for Coop-gameplay.
If PvP is the focus of your gameplay MW5 does not offer that.
MW5 is managing your Unit, take care of the finanicals, hire Pilots, salvage Mechs and equipment, try to get the best out of them (Pilots and Mechs) and you can either do that in Campaign or Career mode with each having the Coop option.
I see some Twitchstreams allways play in Coop having a good time.
And the ability to mod the game can not be overstated as this can add stuff from deeper gameplay mechanics, to better AI, to Pilot fluff, to whole new Biomes and Sound/GFX Mods.
So, especially if the game is on a sale, i would allways recommend it if PvE and Coop gameplay is something you like.
If PvP is a must there is only Mechwarrior Living Legends that a very few players still play.
If PvP is the focus of your gameplay MW5 does not offer that.
MW5 is managing your Unit, take care of the finanicals, hire Pilots, salvage Mechs and equipment, try to get the best out of them (Pilots and Mechs) and you can either do that in Campaign or Career mode with each having the Coop option.
I see some Twitchstreams allways play in Coop having a good time.
And the ability to mod the game can not be overstated as this can add stuff from deeper gameplay mechanics, to better AI, to Pilot fluff, to whole new Biomes and Sound/GFX Mods.
So, especially if the game is on a sale, i would allways recommend it if PvE and Coop gameplay is something you like.
If PvP is a must there is only Mechwarrior Living Legends that a very few players still play.
Edited by Thorqemada, 23 October 2021 - 09:49 PM.
#5
-
-
- Nova Captain
- 8,104 posts
Member
- LocationFrom a distance in an Urbie with a HAG, delivering righteous fury to heretics.
Posted 24 October 2021 - 02:06 AM
Honestly, yes and no. It's just the technical advancement over something like MechWarrior 4, but it comes short at MANY aspects versus others like the story. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, until they actually played older titles like MechWarrior 4.
Mods is where it is at though, MercTech if you're hardcore BattleTech lore-head, but if you're just coming from MWO, Yet Another Mech-Lab, previously hosted by MW5 Reloaded, would be neat as well.
Don't play vanilla, it sucks.
Mods is where it is at though, MercTech if you're hardcore BattleTech lore-head, but if you're just coming from MWO, Yet Another Mech-Lab, previously hosted by MW5 Reloaded, would be neat as well.
Don't play vanilla, it sucks.
#6
-
-
- The Privateer
- 3,242 posts
Member
Posted 24 October 2021 - 04:15 AM
LordNothing, on 23 October 2021 - 05:47 PM, said:
yes and no. dont expect a masterpiece and you will be fine. get it on sale. also there is a vr mod, no vr in mwo last i checked. surprised a pvp mod has not been attempted yet.
The reason I heard is that the underlying tech of MW5 is different from MWO in how shots are handled.
Here is what I understood:
MWO uses a technic that is optimized for multiplayer in that shots are kinda instant hits with a line drawn from you to the target and the computer predicts if you would hit or not.
With lag that can result in shots missing that should hit or shots that should miss to hit BUT its the most effective way of doing it for multiplayer games as the information can be passed on to all players involved in the fight very fast and easly.
That is why 90% of multiplayer games to it like this.
MW5 on the other hand has an actual trajectoy based calculation for everything, except for lazers because lazers
The calculation is more accurate but also costs more to do in the term of PC performance. That is totaly fine for a singleplayer game or with very few players in case of coop and NPCs don't complain about shots not beeing accurate.
When we would do all the calculations for 24 people in a multiplayer game like MWO the amount of data that has to be transfered at the same time becomes ridiculous high. Remeber that a mech, most of the time, fires more then a single weapon and with 24 players ... well lets say it dosn't work.
I only know of one multiplayer game that didn't do it and that was Supreme Commander and that melted PC regulary.
I remember battles with a friend in a LAN, not internet LAN and with large armies the game basicly became a slow motion show where you could get a coffee in between.
So that is, in a nutshell, why MW5 dosn't and most likely, will never have a multiplayer component because it would mean that you have to rewrite the entire code for target-hit calculations and partial animation, because MWOs animation that you see is an approximation of what actualy happens while MW5 is the actual thing.
That is for example why you see shot hit but no damage is taken in MWO AKA its fake but works well enough most of the time
#7
-
-
- The Privateer
- 3,242 posts
Member
Posted 24 October 2021 - 04:28 AM
The6thMessenger, on 24 October 2021 - 02:06 AM, said:
Honestly, yes and no. It's just the technical advancement over something like MechWarrior 4, but it comes short at MANY aspects versus others like the story. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, until they actually played older titles like MechWarrior 4.
Mods is where it is at though, MercTech if you're hardcore BattleTech lore-head, but if you're just coming from MWO, Yet Another Mech-Lab, previously hosted by MW5 Reloaded, would be neat as well.
Don't play vanilla, it sucks.
Mods is where it is at though, MercTech if you're hardcore BattleTech lore-head, but if you're just coming from MWO, Yet Another Mech-Lab, previously hosted by MW5 Reloaded, would be neat as well.
Don't play vanilla, it sucks.
The only mod I am using is "No tonnage" mod to remove the drop limit also that has an interesting side effect that if you drop with to much tonnage the amount of tanks and copters can skyrocket. At least I don't remember that many in some missions.
Still use it because sometimes I am just 5t over the limit and it was annoying to drop a complete mech because I don't have a spare on that just fits right in the early missions.
As for the mechlabs. I have to take a look at the MercTech thing. Frankly I think the entire process should have been done differently.
I have to say that I am not a fan of the "modifiy everything" approach that MWO has. To me it results in to many mechs beeing to similar.
Anyway my approach would have been that how much you can modify a mech would depend on where you are, skill of your tech-crew and chassis.
In your dropship you can do repairs and some field modifications that allow to downgrade stuff but not upgrade. With a very skilled crew you get the ability to maybe to some rigged stuff with more freedom but it also has the potential to have negative quirks. Like yes you can exchange the AC10 with an AC20 but that thing might have problems with reloading or can carry less ammo per shot.
Then you have your industrial zones where you can do much more, given time and money but it would still be limited to "a balistic weapon can only be replaced with a balistic weapon".
When you have an elite repair team, well than can go more wild and exchange the ballistic slot for something else...given time and money beeing the main problem.
This is just a very rough idea but I would have made some very strict limitations that open up the more money, time, better crew, hell maybe even standing with some bigger companies like Defiance Industries you have.
Beeing able to customize stuff should come at a prize for getting THE perfect mech for you. Basicly allowing you to create your own hero mech as the highest game goal.
Scrap together the best equipment, best techs and get some favors from some industrial giant or one of the greate Houses.
Also Dropship costumisation...why isn't THAT a thing....and getting bigger ones.
Ah so much potential, so little stuff done with it.
#8
-
-
- 6,393 posts
Member
Posted 24 October 2021 - 09:32 AM
Nesutizale, on 24 October 2021 - 04:15 AM, said:
The reason I heard is that the underlying tech of MW5 is different from MWO in how shots are handled.
Here is what I understood:
MWO uses a technic that is optimized for multiplayer in that shots are kinda instant hits with a line drawn from you to the target and the computer predicts if you would hit or not.
With lag that can result in shots missing that should hit or shots that should miss to hit BUT its the most effective way of doing it for multiplayer games as the information can be passed on to all players involved in the fight very fast and easly.
That is why 90% of multiplayer games to it like this.
MW5 on the other hand has an actual trajectoy based calculation for everything, except for lazers because lazers
The calculation is more accurate but also costs more to do in the term of PC performance. That is totaly fine for a singleplayer game or with very few players in case of coop and NPCs don't complain about shots not beeing accurate.
When we would do all the calculations for 24 people in a multiplayer game like MWO the amount of data that has to be transfered at the same time becomes ridiculous high. Remeber that a mech, most of the time, fires more then a single weapon and with 24 players ... well lets say it dosn't work.
I only know of one multiplayer game that didn't do it and that was Supreme Commander and that melted PC regulary.
I remember battles with a friend in a LAN, not internet LAN and with large armies the game basicly became a slow motion show where you could get a coffee in between.
So that is, in a nutshell, why MW5 dosn't and most likely, will never have a multiplayer component because it would mean that you have to rewrite the entire code for target-hit calculations and partial animation, because MWOs animation that you see is an approximation of what actualy happens while MW5 is the actual thing.
That is for example why you see shot hit but no damage is taken in MWO AKA its fake but works well enough most of the time
Here is what I understood:
MWO uses a technic that is optimized for multiplayer in that shots are kinda instant hits with a line drawn from you to the target and the computer predicts if you would hit or not.
With lag that can result in shots missing that should hit or shots that should miss to hit BUT its the most effective way of doing it for multiplayer games as the information can be passed on to all players involved in the fight very fast and easly.
That is why 90% of multiplayer games to it like this.
MW5 on the other hand has an actual trajectoy based calculation for everything, except for lazers because lazers
The calculation is more accurate but also costs more to do in the term of PC performance. That is totaly fine for a singleplayer game or with very few players in case of coop and NPCs don't complain about shots not beeing accurate.
When we would do all the calculations for 24 people in a multiplayer game like MWO the amount of data that has to be transfered at the same time becomes ridiculous high. Remeber that a mech, most of the time, fires more then a single weapon and with 24 players ... well lets say it dosn't work.
I only know of one multiplayer game that didn't do it and that was Supreme Commander and that melted PC regulary.
I remember battles with a friend in a LAN, not internet LAN and with large armies the game basicly became a slow motion show where you could get a coffee in between.
So that is, in a nutshell, why MW5 dosn't and most likely, will never have a multiplayer component because it would mean that you have to rewrite the entire code for target-hit calculations and partial animation, because MWOs animation that you see is an approximation of what actualy happens while MW5 is the actual thing.
That is for example why you see shot hit but no damage is taken in MWO AKA its fake but works well enough most of the time
Dont underestimate MWO - the only Weapons that are Hitscan like you described are Lasers and MGs.
They were adressed in the Phase 1 Host State Rewind update for MWO bcs it was obvioulsy the easiest to do.
Projectile Weapons like ACs were updated in Phase 2
All others (Missiles) in Phase 3 (and i think lock on weapons are excluded from HSR bcs no need)
Info about that is almost non existent at this time - PGIs Neema Teymory was the "NetCode Slayer" who worked on this.
MW5 does some other things with weapons MWO does not do like Missiles becoming ballistic flight objects after fuel exhaustion still able to do damage on impact etc.
Edited by Thorqemada, 24 October 2021 - 09:33 AM.
#9
-
-
- Ace Of Spades
- 17,487 posts
Member
Posted 24 October 2021 - 01:05 PM
the main difference between mwo and mw5 is that the former uses a server authoratative client-server and the latter is peer to peer. server authoritative is a good way to stop most cheating as the server gets to qualify everything that happens on the client side. in peer to peer you actually leave this qualification up to the peers themselves.
in either case when an event occurs, say you fire a projectile weapon, you effectively broadcast the event to the clients. basic information like origin of the projectile (world vector), its orientation (quaternion), and a time stamp (this is just a long int and is usually in miliseconds since the clients syncrhonized their timing at the beginning of the match), and maybe some information about the projectile, like what weapon its using (usually passed as a reference to save space). all clients can simulate the projectile and see what it hits. physics is usually deterministic, and game physics can be engineered to be so and timestamps and starting conditions are all you need.
now if the majority of clients all agree that a particular outcome occurred then you can qualify the event. so if one of the peers has been hacked to lie about what happened, they will be majority overridden. multiple events are stacked into a packet that is sent to all clients, possibly with the last packet's qualification data from previous events tacked on.
and dont get hung up on the data. things like raycasts also do things this way, except they can be immediately qualified rather than have to wait for physics simulation to complete. a raycast sends a different data structure: position vector, direction vector (you dont need a quaternion for a raycast), timestamp and reference. the position of the mech is more ticky as you have things like animation states, torso rotation, etc to deal with. this is why hsr was such a big deal. there is no reason you cant do that in peer to peer, its just rewinding the clock to when an event occured and interpolating the state the mech was in at the time, to see where exactly something hit. object collisions are also events though can be considered qualification data, references to what hit what and when.
so pvp on a peer to peer multiplayer system can work. it just requires someone to put in the dev time. games a lot older than this have pulled it off. ever lanparty og doom? that uses some weird serverless peer to peer.
from a modder's standpoint its a matter of can you mod that in. id say no as you dont have code level access to the game, and this is stuff that needs to be fast. the other side of it is its probibly already a feature of ue4. il let those more versed in mw5 modding figure it out, i only can speak from experiences ive had with netcode. pgi stands a better chance, as far as i know they still have programmers with experience in the game. something mwo has not had for a very long time.
in either case when an event occurs, say you fire a projectile weapon, you effectively broadcast the event to the clients. basic information like origin of the projectile (world vector), its orientation (quaternion), and a time stamp (this is just a long int and is usually in miliseconds since the clients syncrhonized their timing at the beginning of the match), and maybe some information about the projectile, like what weapon its using (usually passed as a reference to save space). all clients can simulate the projectile and see what it hits. physics is usually deterministic, and game physics can be engineered to be so and timestamps and starting conditions are all you need.
now if the majority of clients all agree that a particular outcome occurred then you can qualify the event. so if one of the peers has been hacked to lie about what happened, they will be majority overridden. multiple events are stacked into a packet that is sent to all clients, possibly with the last packet's qualification data from previous events tacked on.
and dont get hung up on the data. things like raycasts also do things this way, except they can be immediately qualified rather than have to wait for physics simulation to complete. a raycast sends a different data structure: position vector, direction vector (you dont need a quaternion for a raycast), timestamp and reference. the position of the mech is more ticky as you have things like animation states, torso rotation, etc to deal with. this is why hsr was such a big deal. there is no reason you cant do that in peer to peer, its just rewinding the clock to when an event occured and interpolating the state the mech was in at the time, to see where exactly something hit. object collisions are also events though can be considered qualification data, references to what hit what and when.
so pvp on a peer to peer multiplayer system can work. it just requires someone to put in the dev time. games a lot older than this have pulled it off. ever lanparty og doom? that uses some weird serverless peer to peer.
from a modder's standpoint its a matter of can you mod that in. id say no as you dont have code level access to the game, and this is stuff that needs to be fast. the other side of it is its probibly already a feature of ue4. il let those more versed in mw5 modding figure it out, i only can speak from experiences ive had with netcode. pgi stands a better chance, as far as i know they still have programmers with experience in the game. something mwo has not had for a very long time.
Edited by LordNothing, 24 October 2021 - 01:42 PM.
#10
-
-
- The Jaws
- 1,775 posts
Member
- LocationNE USA
Posted 25 October 2021 - 02:34 AM
Just adding my experience. I’m the same, completely giving up on MWO. Stopped in April, and looks like I will never be coming back. MW5 has been really fun for me, but using a number of mods and Heroes DLC. Vanilla is missing so much.
if you want more opinions, check out the MW5 Reddit. It is significantly more active than this forum.
if you want more opinions, check out the MW5 Reddit. It is significantly more active than this forum.
#11
-
-
- Nova Captain
- 8,104 posts
Member
- LocationFrom a distance in an Urbie with a HAG, delivering righteous fury to heretics.
Posted 25 October 2021 - 02:52 AM
Nesutizale, on 24 October 2021 - 04:28 AM, said:
Ah so much potential, so little stuff done with it.
Yeah, duh.
What I was hoping was basically a first-persion version of HBS Battletech. Well, what we got ain't it.
#12
-
-
- The Stryker
- 138 posts
Member
Posted 01 November 2021 - 09:54 AM
MountainRat, on 23 October 2021 - 06:05 AM, said:
I have stopped playing MWO, because they destroyed Faction play with Siege only majority of the time.
I miss playing and would like to know if MW5 is any better?
Are there s lot of people who play online?
I miss playing and would like to know if MW5 is any better?
Are there s lot of people who play online?
Mechwarrior 5 is a solo thing with coop (where players take the place of your AI lancemates)
The giant stompy robot fighting, the actual combat, is fantastic, most everything else is shallow, unpolished, or repetitive after awhile. The base game is "fine", DLCs bring it up to between "Good and Great", mods can make it AMAZING
One of the first thinks you might notice is the mechlab is not as expansive as MWO. this is done for a reason, but i assume you don't like it anyway, so you can use Yet Another Mech Lab to get MWO's mechlab + hardpoints
The6thMessenger, on 25 October 2021 - 02:52 AM, said:
Yeah, duh.
What I was hoping was basically a first-persion version of HBS Battletech. Well, what we got ain't it.
I have always said that if MW5 was just HBS BT except the on-the-ground gameplay is first person shooter instead of turn based it'd be a much better game.
Edited by Andrewlik, 01 November 2021 - 09:52 AM.
#13
-
-
- The Privateer
- 3,242 posts
Member
Posted 01 November 2021 - 01:53 PM
Andrewlik, on 01 November 2021 - 09:54 AM, said:
I have always said that if MW5 was just HBS BT except the on-the-ground gameplay is first person shooter instead of turn based it'd be a much better game.
I don't agree. I didn't find the story of HBS BT that much better. There was some more crew interaction but MW5 is the one I am still playing while uninstalled HBS BT as soon as I was done.
Also I have to say that I play MW5 rarely. Mostly when I don't want to play MWO but need my dose of stompy mechs ^_°
#14
-
-
- 6,393 posts
Member
Posted 02 November 2021 - 08:39 AM
MW5 or HBS-BT = Mods make or break the game.
If you find Mods you like you have a longe time to go.
HBS-BT its BEX - the Battletech 3025 extnded commanders edition
(sadly no more on Nexus but the discord has some download links)
MW5 its all the Mods but especially Merctech (got recently updated on Nexus).
Since i moved to Win11 i have reinstalled some games including BT and DAO, Outcast etc. and searched the mods for them to install and make run and started a new BT Campaing recently.
(I am mildly amused about this fetish with nobility in that HBS game but maybe that is an american thing i as european cant understand bcs nobility means nothing to me.)
In MW5 Pilot Overhaul is not Merctech compatible and i hope the Author will maintain the mod so it becomes working again.
I dont want to start a new Campaing (bcs i usually play campaing and not career) and then need to restart anything soon after bcs currently the mod updates come in quite frequently.
But without mods i would not take a look at the games anymore (and i think the base games with dlcs are good) - its all about the mods!
PS; (With the caveat that i need to stop the campaign play at some point in the campaign b4 the end bcs i will never touch games again when i have played them "through".
Like Cyberpunk where i played to one end, then played to one of the earlier quests (the delamain car ai quest that was the one that was broken for me in the first run) and have not touched it since and never will again unless a massive content overhaul FF14 style is made.)
If you find Mods you like you have a longe time to go.
HBS-BT its BEX - the Battletech 3025 extnded commanders edition
(sadly no more on Nexus but the discord has some download links)
MW5 its all the Mods but especially Merctech (got recently updated on Nexus).
Since i moved to Win11 i have reinstalled some games including BT and DAO, Outcast etc. and searched the mods for them to install and make run and started a new BT Campaing recently.
(I am mildly amused about this fetish with nobility in that HBS game but maybe that is an american thing i as european cant understand bcs nobility means nothing to me.)
In MW5 Pilot Overhaul is not Merctech compatible and i hope the Author will maintain the mod so it becomes working again.
I dont want to start a new Campaing (bcs i usually play campaing and not career) and then need to restart anything soon after bcs currently the mod updates come in quite frequently.
But without mods i would not take a look at the games anymore (and i think the base games with dlcs are good) - its all about the mods!
PS; (With the caveat that i need to stop the campaign play at some point in the campaign b4 the end bcs i will never touch games again when i have played them "through".
Like Cyberpunk where i played to one end, then played to one of the earlier quests (the delamain car ai quest that was the one that was broken for me in the first run) and have not touched it since and never will again unless a massive content overhaul FF14 style is made.)
Edited by Thorqemada, 02 November 2021 - 08:41 AM.
#15
-
-
- The Ardent
- 1,595 posts
Member
Posted 27 November 2021 - 06:33 AM
I'm considering buying vanilla MW5 while it's on sale. My main concern is that with the latest patch that I won't be able to run some of the most popular mods like MercTech due to version compatibility issues, and it seems that at least that mod's programmer isn't enthusiastic about keeping up with MW5's patch deployment. Is MW5 still worth it if the cool existing mods are going to have issues with the game moving forward?
The main things I've found appealing about existing mods are ammo switching during combat and changing autocannon firing rates. Some of the damage mods, like engine, gyro, and leg actuator hits are especially appealing to me.
The main things I've found appealing about existing mods are ammo switching during combat and changing autocannon firing rates. Some of the damage mods, like engine, gyro, and leg actuator hits are especially appealing to me.
#16
-
-
- 6,393 posts
Member
Posted 28 November 2021 - 03:06 AM
Merctech has already been updated and some mods dont need updates...
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
