18 replies to this topic

[Deplorable Deployable]

Why if I'm a light, and I cap bases or protect assaults with my ECM. 100% I get a down rating, even though strategically we win when I do this? So if I want to lose the game, I just go and kill things and get pilot ranking but I lose the game... so I get down or even. It makes absolutely no freaking sense for a light to be judged solely on damage. Strategic play should be rewarded. It's a very dumb system. I can't believe how dumb it is. my second grade daughter can come up with a better scoring system. Wining the game should be 80%+ of the points.. damage is important but secondary to objectives. This is not rocket science. Please remediate scoring system so that it makes sense to try and win games. Otherwise, people will stop playing.

Deplorable Deployable.

[Deplorable Deployable]

Also- many times the winning is not due to anyone's superior play. The premade might have a group caller and they are focus firing. Well, that's like lazyboy channel surfing. When people aren't on coms, and it's just a PUG. Communication is not great. Lots of chaos. Very little focus firing. So, the game should just give less rewards for multiple foes on one target.. like shooting fish in a barrel... not hard.. It's just math, I'm sure there is someone at Microsoft that can figure out better scoring rules for pilot rankings. D.D.

[martian]

Greetings!

Deplorable Deployable, on 11 November 2021 - 07:23 AM, said:

Why if I'm a light, and I cap bases ...

You do not have to cap every single base in Conquest personally. All you have to do is to make sure that your team does not lose on caps. Of course, if it happens that you are just next to some base, you can spend a few moments there - that's okay.

However, it is a bad idea to spend the game running from one remote corner of the maps to the other base in the opposite corner of the map.

Deplorable Deployable, on 11 November 2021 - 07:23 AM, said:

... or protect assaults with my ECM.

To be honest, your Assaults do not need it that much. Sure, there are some slow light 'Mechs that can be used for such task and sometimes the situation requires it, but other than that ...

What is the point of deploying in a light 'Mech that can run 130 km/h and jump, if you are going to spend the game escorting 50 km/h Atlas?

Deplorable Deployable, on 11 November 2021 - 07:23 AM, said:

100% I get a down rating, even though strategically we win when I do this?

Well, you rarely win purely on cap. Your mistake is that you did not add enough kills, damage and other activities on top of your "time-on-cap" points.

Deplorable Deployable, on 11 November 2021 - 07:23 AM, said:

So if I want to lose the game, I just go and kill things and get pilot ranking but I lose the game... so I get down or even.

No, if you want to lose the game, you spend the game running between various bases without even scratching enemy 'Mechs.

The best way how you can help your team is if you kill enemy 'Mechs. Dead enemy 'Mechs can not kill your team mates, dead enemy 'Mechs can not drop artillery strike on your team, dead enemy 'Mechs can not spot for LRMs ... and dead enemy 'Mechs can not cap your team's bases.

Essentially, every dead enemy 'Mech makes it more difficult for the enemy team to win on cap (and on kills too, of course).

Deplorable Deployable, on 11 November 2021 - 07:23 AM, said:

It makes absolutely no freaking sense for a light to be judged solely on damage.

Whether you like it or not, damage is a half of your Match Score. 500 damage means 250 points as the basis of your MS. And even light 'Mechs can do a lot of damage.

Deplorable Deployable, on 11 November 2021 - 07:23 AM, said:

Strategic play should be rewarded. It's a very dumb system. I can't believe how dumb it is. my second grade daughter can come up with a better scoring system. Wining the game should be 80%+ of the points.. damage is important but secondary to objectives. This is not rocket science. Please remediate scoring system so that it makes sense to try and win games. Otherwise, people will stop playing.

If your team dies because your 'Mech (or other friendly 'Mechs) was absent from the battle, and then the enemy team recaptures all lost bases and kills you as the last surviving friendly 'Mech ... Well, who did fail strategically here? I would describe it as a case of "bad priorities".

Deplorable Deployable, on 11 November 2021 - 07:30 AM, said:

Also- many times the winning is not due to anyone's superior play. The premade might have a group caller and they are focus firing. Well, that's like lazyboy channel surfing. When people aren't on coms, and it's just a PUG. Communication is not great. Lots of chaos. Very little focus firing. So, the game should just give less rewards for multiple foes on one target.. like shooting fish in a barrel... not hard.. It's just math, I'm sure there is someone at Microsoft that can figure out better scoring rules for pilot rankings. D.D.

In this I agree with you. I do not like premades on Quick play either.

[justcallme A S H]

Deplorable Deployable, on 11 November 2021 - 07:23 AM, said:

Why if I'm a light, and I cap bases or protect assaults with my ECM. 100% I get a down rating, even though strategically we win when I do this?

Please remediate scoring system so that it makes sense to try and win games.

Well I doubt that it results in a win more often than it would if you shot your weapons.

MWO is a FPS. S stands for Shooter. The aim is to Shoot.

The game modes of Assault/Conquest are there as a secondary breaker/layer. They are not the absolute prime objective.


You can play supporting roles and score very well. Just ensure you do the Shooting part of the FPS. Shooting means a much higher change of winning games as is the main objective of the game.

Deplorable Deployable, on 11 November 2021 - 07:30 AM, said:

Also- many times the winning is not due to anyone's superior play. The premade might have a group caller and they are focus firing. Well, that's like lazyboy channel surfing. When people aren't on coms, and it's just a PUG. Communication is not great. Lots of chaos. Very little focus firing. So, the game should just give less rewards for multiple foes on one target.. like shooting fish in a barrel... not hard.. It's just math, I'm sure there is someone at Microsoft that can figure out better scoring rules for pilot rankings. D.D.

Focusing fire is actually smart, not stupid. You have it completely backwards.

Focus firing is rewarded by wins being more likely to be attained by using comms. It is therefore rewarding people for smart and strategic gameplay.

Groups do not impact the queue to the level people claim. If you look at casual/mid tier people that constantly group (now it is an option) vs their stats prior to the change - their overall averages remain unchanged. This strongly suggests that said grouping and its impact is negligeble, which it is as I and a number have others have seen in-game,

[ScrapIron Prime]

As ASH has stated, the smart money is on [mostly] ignoring the objective and just shooting things. A number of us, myself included, have brought up the idea of changing the objectives as stated or adjusting match score so that winning by the objective does not penalize you, but the conversation has little interest and no traction. So soldier on!

But to your point of losing player rank by assisting the larger mechs... that's great teamwork and it DOES get you bonus points. (Protected Medium, for example, happens every few seconds so you can rack up a dozen or more each match.) And shooting down missiles with AMS is free bonus points too. But the bonus points you get are not nearly as much as the points you're missing out on by causing damage. If you're going to play the "assistant mech" role, then make sure you have the weaponry to reach out and sting the targets of the heavy/assault mechs you're guarding.

Like this Cicada 3M, for example, it provides ECM and AMS to nearby allies but also packs 2 large lasers and 2 medium lasers so it can pick at the assault mech's targets and also help drive off piranhas and fleas that try to get in your big buddy's shorts.

https://mwo.nav-alph...7ef365c5_CDA-3M

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 12 November 2021 - 06:27 AM.

[Cold Soul]

justcallme A S H, on 11 November 2021 - 10:18 PM, said:

Well I doubt that it results in a win more often than it would if you shot your weapons.

MWO is a FPS. S stands for Shooter. The aim is to Shoot.

The game modes of Assault/Conquest are there as a secondary breaker/layer. They are not the absolute prime objective.


You can play supporting roles and score very well. Just ensure you do the Shooting part of the FPS. Shooting means a much higher change of winning games as is the main objective of the game

MechWarrior Online™ Solaris 7 is a tactical, 'Mech-based online shooter set in the vast BattleTech Universe.Well it claims to be a tactical online shooter and as for objectives being secondary that is surely up to the player or ones unit to define this.

[martian]

Cold Soul, on 19 November 2021 - 11:42 PM, said:

MechWarrior Online™ Solaris 7 is a tactical, 'Mech-based online shooter set in the vast BattleTech Universe.Well it claims to be a tactical online shooter and as for objectives being secondary that is surely up to the player or ones unit to define this.

Surely it is.

Just do not complain if the opposing team goes with the "kill them all and cap the objective at our leisure afterwards" strategy and actually wins the game.

[Cold Soul]

martian, on 19 November 2021 - 11:58 PM, said:

Surely it is.

Just do not complain if the opposing team goes with the "kill them all and cap the objective at our leisure afterwards" strategy and actually wins the game.

Well have been on both sides in too many teams to count, sometimes they fail to kill em all or do and they can't out cap, sometimes they win. Must add that tiny maps usually don't favour a capping team, unless the others don't cap at all.

[martian]

Cold Soul, on 20 November 2021 - 02:27 AM, said:

Well have been on both sides in too many teams to count, sometimes they fail to kill em all or do and they can't out cap, sometimes they win. Must add that tiny maps usually don't favour a capping team, unless the others don't cap at all.

In my experience the number of games won thanks the strategy that I described above is much higher than the number of games won thanks concentrating purely on capping/destroying the objective(s).

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

Whether you like it or not, damage is a half of your Match Score. 500 damage means 250 points as the basis of your MS. And even light 'Mechs can do a lot of damage.

Correction on the first piece and only slight correction on the percentage. Damage conversion is closer to 45% of its points to Matchscore points. Your 50% is close enough though with use of your example, it simply make up most of the player's overall Matchscore for that game or be a low percentage of the Matchscore.

OP, depending on the players actions/inactions/team damage, percentage of a matchscore generated from a player's damage will vary. Imagine what your matchscore could be if you were to add 200 pts of damage to it? Just remember, you are being rated against the 23 players.

Paul Inouye, on 08 June 2020 - 02:52 PM, said:

As Russ mentioned, I'm going to provide a list of all events that currently trigger and apply value to Match Score.

Each of these triggers has a value assigned to it. The values are essentially the weighting of the variable in the overall sum of all actions listed. At the end, the number is multiplied by a decimal multiplier that reduces the overall sum to a number that is manageable.

win - Base value for winning.
loss - Base value for losing.
teamkills - Loss for team killing.
spottingassist - Gain for spotting an enemy and that enemy takes damage. (Press R)
componentdestroyed - Gain for destroying a component on an enemy.
death - Loss for dying.
capturewin - Bonus gain for winning by capture.
captureassist - Gain for helping others capture a capture point by being in the capture radius.
suicide - Loss for suiciding.
saviorkill - Gain for helping a teammate under fire and you get the kill shot on his highest damaging opponent.
defensivekill - Gain for helping a teammate under fire and you get the kill shot on an opponent damaging them.
uavkill - Gain for any kills happening under a UAV you deployed.
uavlockeddmg - Gain for any damage done to a target that is under your UAV.
uavdetection - Gain for any new enemy detected by your UAV.
counterECM - Gain for countering enemy ECM.
counterECMLockedDmg - Gain for damage done to enemies under your counter ECM.
turretkill - Gain for killing a turret.
killblow - Gain for getting the killing blow on your enemy.
killassist - Gain for damage done to enemies upon kill but you didn't explicitly get the kill shot.
teamdmg - Loss for team damage done.
damagedone - Gain for damage done to enemies.
killmostdmg - Gain for getting the kill shot and you did the most damage to your enemy.
solokill - Gain for killing an enemy without the assistance of your teammates.
scouting - Gain for targeting enemies without damage being done.
flanking - Gain for being out of LoS to your enemy and behind enemy line.
capture - Gain for capturing a capture zone.
capturepulse - Gain for time you are capturing in a capture zone.
firstcapture - Gain for capturing the first capture zone in a match.
brawling - Gain for being in combat agaist multiple opponents.
tagdmg - Gain for any damage done to an enemy you have tagged.
tagkill - Gain for any kill done to an enemy you have tagged.
narckill - Gain for any kill done to an enemy you have narced.
hitandrun - Gain for attacking an enemy and escaping their LoS for an amount of time.
tagstealth - Gain for tagging an enemy behind enemies and not being targeted by them.
lanceformation - Gain for time spent near lancemates.
protectmedium - Gain for killing an enemy who is attacking a medium class teammate.
protectlight - Gain for killing an enemy who is attacking a light class teammate.
protectproximity - Gain for killing an enemy who is near any teammate.
powercell_pickup - Gain for picking up a power cell.
powercell_dropoff - Gain for dropping off a power cell.
incrusion_destruction - Gain for destroying objective objects in Incursion.
kill_powercell_carrier - Gain for killing a power cell carrier.
ams_missile_destroyed - Gain for missiles destroyed by your AMS system.
 
matchscore_scale - A multiplier used to reduce the sum of all match score activity to keep numbers reasonable.

snip

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 20 November 2021 - 06:03 AM.

[martian]

Tarl Cabot, on 20 November 2021 - 06:01 AM, said:

Correction on the first piece and only slight correction on the percentage. Damage conversion is closer to 45% of its points to Matchscore points. Your 50% is close enough though with use of your example, it simply make up most of the player's overall Matchscore for that game or be a low percentage of the Matchscore.

OP, depending on the players actions/inactions/team damage, percentage of a matchscore generated from a player's damage will vary. Imagine what your matchscore could be if you were to add 200 pts of damage to it? Just remember, you are being rated against the 23 players.

Many players think that they can accompany a friendly Assault 'Mech, fire a few times in the general direction of the enemy and maybe stand a few seconds still in a blinking square far from the action.

Sure, they can do all that ... but they should not expect to see the "green arrow".

[Tarl Cabot]

martian, on 20 November 2021 - 06:39 AM, said:

Many players think that they can accompany a friendly Assault 'Mech, fire a few times in the general direction of the enemy and maybe stand a few seconds still in a blinking square far from the action.

Sure, they can do all that ... but they should not expect to see the "green arrow".

True that, but looking at his history, he does not primarily pilot lights either.. what is he doing while using a medium, heavy or an assault? Capping, just slower getting from one point to the next ?

His previous history had him at a 0.61 W/L ratio but for Nov he is sitting at 1.55 W/L ratio (dropping as part of a group may be? ). And his historic seasons MS is sitting at 157 MS vs November's 210 MS.. November would likely be higher if he hadnt been piloting any assaults.

So he is doing something different, which is contributing to higher MS and winning more often than not.

[martian]

Tarl Cabot, on 20 November 2021 - 07:54 AM, said:

True that, but looking at his history, he does not primarily pilot lights either.. what is he doing while using a medium, heavy or an assault? Capping, just slower getting from one point to the next ?

His previous history had him at a 0.61 W/L ratio but for Nov he is sitting at 1.55 W/L ratio (dropping as part of a group may be? ). And his historic seasons MS is sitting at 157 MS vs November's 210 MS.. November would likely be higher if he hadnt been piloting any assaults.

So he is doing something different, which is contributing to higher MS and winning more often than not.

There are many medium 'Mechs that can be used to cap AND fight: Assassin, Vulcan, Cicada, Dragonfly, Fenris, etc.

Even when piloting Loki, Thor, Grasshopper or Vulture one can cap, if it is reasonably possible.

[Tarl Cabot]

martian, on 20 November 2021 - 08:06 AM, said:

There are many medium 'Mechs that can be used to cap AND fight: Assassin, Vulcan, Cicada, Dragonfly, Fenris, etc.

Even when piloting Loki, Thor, Grasshopper or Vulture one can cap, if it is reasonably possible.

Hai, but since there has not been a change to how Matchscore is calculated, he is doing something different that he had not doing in the previous , even last month. Then it was a year ago last month when he played at least 10+ games to be registered on the leadership boards.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 20 November 2021 - 09:46 AM.

[martian]

Tarl Cabot, on 20 November 2021 - 09:45 AM, said:

Hai, but since there has not been a change to how Matchscore is calculated, he is doing something different that he had not doing in the previous , even last month. Then it was a year ago last month when he played at least 10+ games to be registered on the leadership boards.

Maybe he shoots more.

[Arc Fabersen]

Just my two cents, I'm definitely seeing OP's point about objectives, albeit not so much about the rest. It's far too easy to lose skill rating by going for a quick win in the game modes Assault or Incursion with a few faster mechs. Twice in the past week or so (and at least one other time I recall in the last month) I've shot at every enemy I saw on the way to their base then proceeded to take the objective with a couple of teammates. Every time I've lost skill rating despite never wasting a second, using a fast mech with decent range, keeping my head on a swivel and being among the few players to contribute to the objective. I imagine the sluggish assault mechs in that one match of Assault mode (can't say I love the ambiguity there on mech class and game mode sharing a name) about a month ago - who had only just reached the fight by the time we'd capped the enemy base - were plenty sore about their red arrow at the end as well.

Assault and Incursion (not Conquest because there's no way to speedrun the objective and you'll always have opportunities to fight even if you're a speedy little mech focusing on caps) could really use one of the following:

• A rebalance of the skill rating system or...
  
• Some kind of exemption from skill loss for slow/assault mechs (who probably didn't vote for that game mode and could barely reach the fight before the match ended) and fast objective-takers (who won the game for their team but may have missed out on the big fight) in unusual Assault/Incursion matches where the objective gets demolished in under, I dunno, say 2 or 3 minutes

Our team was ages from our base in my latest Assault match and I was among the 3 speedier mechs who counter-capped the enemy base and won after a fast enemy light initiated a cap on us. The enemy team was also ages away from their own base so we didn't get much of a fight, just a little long-range trading before the cap finished. We probably would have spent more of the match fighting if we hadn't been forced to either rush to defend our base (I suspect this would have lost us the match) or counter-cap (we were close enough after some early rotation and it worked out nicely).

[justcallme A S H]

Cold Soul, on 19 November 2021 - 11:42 PM, said:

MechWarrior Online™ Solaris 7 is a tactical, 'Mech-based online shooter set in the vast BattleTech Universe.Well it claims to be a tactical online shooter and as for objectives being secondary that is surely up to the player or ones unit to define this.

And the most tactical way to play - kill the enemies as fast as possible. Most players understand it is the most tactically intelligent choice.


Out of every 100 games I can count on one hand how many are secondary objective based wins.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 21 November 2021 - 04:04 AM.

[the orc]

You can get match score for lots of things, but you can't bring 5 UAVs and 5 Artillery Strikes either, nor can you scout, flank, protect whatever, capture, savior kill, etc. all at the same time. At the end there is a pretty obvious correlation between damage, surviving time and match score. - And with all these super heavy drops you have nowadays, even if your side wins and you did a decent game in your light, you experience very ofter that you still get a negative rating. Basically because those enemy assaults with their 85+ damage alphas just outdamage your light with an 25 alpha easily. - I had matches in a light where 400 point match score was not good enough for an even rating. That sucks.

Other times you run right into some "stealth" assault, that blasts you away with his first alpha und you find that even that DC got more match score than you, just because it lived three minutes longer. That's ridiculous.

You can say: Yeah. Damage and surviving is what counts. - But... It promotes passive gameplay with big mechs on long range (stay away, so that you don't get shot too much; let your team die, so that you can get another shot out before you are getting killed),...

Putting damage done somehow into relation of your tonnage or alpha strike wouldn't be too bad of an idea, I think.

[Generic Internetter]

Deplorable Deployable, on 11 November 2021 - 07:23 AM, said:

Why if I'm a light, and I cap bases or protect assaults with my ECM. 100% I get a down rating, even though strategically we win when I do this? So if I want to lose the game, I just go and kill things and get pilot ranking but I lose the game... so I get down or even. It makes absolutely no freaking sense for a light to be judged solely on damage. Strategic play should be rewarded. It's a very dumb system. I can't believe how dumb it is. my second grade daughter can come up with a better scoring system. Wining the game should be 80%+ of the points.. damage is important but secondary to objectives. This is not rocket science. Please remediate scoring system so that it makes sense to try and win games. Otherwise, people will stop playing.

Deplorable Deployable.

Everything you said makes sense, but it incorrectly assumes people want to climb the rankings.

The opposite is generally true. People actually seek to fall in ranking to drop to lower tiers, and in some extreme cases they create new smurf accounts just to play at lower ranks.

But technically everything you said is true on paper.