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This Made Me Smile Sadly


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#21 Nesutizale

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 02:22 PM

View PostDauntless Blint, on 06 November 2021 - 12:20 PM, said:

I'd rather have cross tech only available from salvage all the art assets are already made. Your proposed weapon system bloats weapons that could be tweaked with specific Mech tech tree's, tech gadgets(like original MWO skills now removed) or Pilot skills.

To see if we are on the same page here. If I understand your right you would propose that, for example, an AC10 on a Centurion could have an tech unlock that changes its firing behavior from slug to burst fire?
Would that be something every mech can do or just specific mechs could have this specific quirks unlocked?
So Centurion AC10 has slug -> burst fire unlock but the Wolverine AC10 has burst -> higher range unlock. ?

Quote

Cross tech balances both factions eliminating bias and brings the maximum variety whilst also making salvage real treasure as apposed to generic junk as it's the only way to acquire it. I'd argue it's less min maxing.


No. Crosstech makes one faction obsolete as everyone will just run the meta or similar. Everything else would simply fade away.
Why should I take a IS Medium Laser over the Clan ER-M? Same weight, more damage, higher range, etc.
What about IS LRM over Clan LRM? One weights less, takes less slots and has no min range. It just outclasses the IS version in basicly every way.

I would give something if the Cauldron could tip the "balance" to be more asymetric. IS for duration, Clans hard hitting but no standing power.

#22 MrTBSC

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Posted 06 November 2021 - 11:01 PM

View PostNesutizale, on 06 November 2021 - 02:22 PM, said:



Why should I take a IS Medium Laser over the Clan ER-M? Same weight, more damage, higher range, etc.
What about IS LRM over Clan LRM? One weights less, takes less slots and has no min range. It just outclasses the IS version in basicly every way.


you realise IS and Clan have both their ER laser variants?

there is a clear advantage (regarding MWO at least) in taking IS standart over IS or CLAN ER ... it´s colder and has better dps for the shorter range ..
even in MW4 (were weaponballance is non existend) i had many times thought to take standart Lasers over ER ...

as for IS vs Clan LRMs: it´s true that clan have a severe tonnage advantage but imo there is a advantage of IS LRM groupswarms over Clan streaming missiles vs AMS ...
also what CLAN has in efficiency IS has in variety ...

#23 Dauntless Blint

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Posted 10 November 2021 - 05:33 AM

View PostNesutizale, on 06 November 2021 - 02:22 PM, said:

To see if we are on the same page here. If I understand your right you would propose that, for example, an AC10 on a Centurion could have an tech unlock that changes its firing behavior from slug to burst fire?
Would that be something every mech can do or just specific mechs could have this specific quirks unlocked?
So Centurion AC10 has slug -> burst fire unlock but the Wolverine AC10 has burst -> higher range unlock. ?



No. Crosstech makes one faction obsolete as everyone will just run the meta or similar. Everything else would simply fade away.
Why should I take a IS Medium Laser over the Clan ER-M? Same weight, more damage, higher range, etc.
What about IS LRM over Clan LRM? One weights less, takes less slots and has no min range. It just outclasses the IS version in basicly every way.

I would give something if the Cauldron could tip the "balance" to be more asymetric. IS for duration, Clans hard hitting but no standing power.


False
Bulk hardpoint Clan mechs would benefit form the the IS faster firing close range brawling lasers whilst the low hardpoint IS mech's would Benefit from heavy medium and large lasers that could help fill the alpha disparity and boost some of the IS XLE Lite mechs.
Like wise Clan LRM's can stream fire suppressing and blinding target's but they don't have the alpha available that deals with targets moving through a timing window back to cover. It totally depends on the individual chassis it would help squeeze more performance out of the under performing chassis.

Like wise Clan could enjoy some Heavy Gauss and IS could enjoy some ATM's... what ever it would reinvigorate the game somewhat anyway and as it's only available from battle field loot it's not like you can go and put it on everything and give a reason to play and a little dopamine hit for collecting treasure.

No up grade path, just pure salvaged treasure with a cross tech stamp on it so it can't be obtained from the shop in any way. Maybe it could drop from loot box's as the only other alternative source because right now loot box's mean nearly nothing, especially to a long time player. A cross tech weapon could be a treasure.

They can't go fully asymmetric unless they introduce % based damage mitigation in the armor profiles which is exponentially better than a straight health pool for the survival architype which would otherwise always be inferior to the natively exponentially better damage architype as asymmetrical opposition.

They reeled in Clans because they had the vast majority of the mobility, range, firepower and XL survivability and easier to use weapons better heat efficiency, lighter weapons, more damage.
IS had: more hit points. IS are supposed to be more numerous but not in this game. Anyway they've found balance.

It would kill the bias arguments of any weapon as you would have access to it. Think somethings OP try it and see
Edit: Was just thinking, you could actually remove engine desync too because the Clan mobility disparity would be able to be addressed with cross tech engines. AND it could be it's own category game mode if it still seems too dicey to take a punt on, restricted from the standard engine desync and QP game modes currently.

Edited by Dauntless Blint, 10 November 2021 - 05:42 AM.


#24 Nesutizale

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Posted 10 November 2021 - 05:50 AM

And that is the primary example why I say no to mix tech. You instantly start to min/max. This isn't about balance, its min/maxing to the extreme.
There should be differances in Clan and IS and each side haveing stuff that is better and worse. That is the entire point of haveing it.
With the mixtech you are completly eliminating entire branches of weapons. Stop it.

Asymetry isn't about balanceing things out by making everything act the same. Its about creating differances that balance each other out.
As you said yourself. IS has the "brawling laser" while Clans have the "heavy stuff" laser. Its catering to different playstyles.

Stop makeing everything the same. The mechlab is terrible enough in doing that. Most mechs are just other skins because you have full costumization.

#25 Dauntless Blint

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Posted 10 November 2021 - 07:54 PM

View PostNesutizale, on 10 November 2021 - 05:50 AM, said:

And that is the primary example why I say no to mix tech. You instantly start to min/max. This isn't about balance, its min/maxing to the extreme.
There should be differances in Clan and IS and each side haveing stuff that is better and worse. That is the entire point of haveing it.
With the mixtech you are completly eliminating entire branches of weapons. Stop it.

Asymetry isn't about balanceing things out by making everything act the same. Its about creating differances that balance each other out.
As you said yourself. IS has the "brawling laser" while Clans have the "heavy stuff" laser. Its catering to different playstyles.

Stop makeing everything the same. The mechlab is terrible enough in doing that. Most mechs are just other skins because you have full costumization.


You do realize Min/Maxing is the epitome of asymmetrical balance right?

...And that it would make mechs with limited hard points have more diverse builds, likewise mechs with more hard points have different combo options.

And it would be limited to the trickle feed of loot box's and battle salvage. Why do you think it would wipe out weapon choices? the game is more balanced then you might comprehend on the surface of it at first glance.
If it's too scary or disruptive of an idea it could have it's own que and see what the players do with it considering MWO 2.0 as this game is dead excluding the cult following.

Go play MW5 if you dislike customization, the game is poorer for it's lean into less customization choices.

Edited by Dauntless Blint, 10 November 2021 - 08:00 PM.


#26 Nesutizale

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Posted 11 November 2021 - 01:22 AM

Where is the asymetry and diversity in builds if I can have a IS mech with 5 IS Medium lasers and a Clan mech with 5 IS Medium lasers?
Its just you change the skin and min/max with best of both worlds.

Where is the differance in haveing, don't know, an Atlas with 4 ERM and any other 100t mech with 4 ERM? It reduces mechs to skins, stripping every individuality of the design.

Yes there are differances in hardpoint positions but that means only that those chassis with hardpoints you don't like get dropped while those with prefarable hardpoints stay.
Same would happen when you start mixing the tech. You select the skin with the best hardpoints and put in the best weapon of each faction.

Everything becomes the same.

And yes I enjoy MW5 exactly for not haveing the extreme Mechlab options. Its so refreshing to know what you face just by looking at the mech.
I like haveing to think about what is the best I can do with the limited resources. Currently I am driving a Shadow Hawk 2D. Not because its a good mech but its the best I have and I made it work. That is deeply satisfing to me.

Edited by Nesutizale, 11 November 2021 - 01:29 AM.






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