36 replies to this topic

[martian]

1312SHR1312, on 07 November 2021 - 03:00 AM, said:

a pack of 6 ssrm x4 still gives you the better lolz on pesty lights

Well, yes and no. Such loadout is good against light 'Mechs, not so much against heavier 'Mechs.

Once you learn how to lead target when using SRMs, you will find out that SRMs (with Artemis IV FCS, if needed) are better solution overall, because they are effective against both light 'Mechs ... and against medium, heavy and Assault 'Mechs too.

And let us not forget the relative abundance of ECM 'Mechs on the current MWO battlefield that complicates the use of Streak SRMs even further..

[justcallme A S H]

LordNothing, on 06 November 2021 - 05:08 AM, said:

i wonder how pgi/the cauldron/the playerbase would feel about updating the game wiki with new and up to date information. frankly the whole thing is a stub in dire want of up to date and useful information. as far as i can tell nobody but pgi has write access to the thing, changing this would be good for the game and npe.

i think the best bet would be to open it up to everyone and give all the cauldron members moderator status.

Cauldron have asked, a few times.

There is a community one being made I believe as part of K2B's MWO Nav/Mechlab 2.0 website. There is already people working on it all, I was asked to help but I simply don't have the time currently

[ScrapIron Prime]

martian, on 07 November 2021 - 11:14 AM, said:

And let us not forget the relative abundance of ECM 'Mechs on the current MWO battlefield that complicates the use of Streak SRMs even further..

This. At the limit of an SSRM’s range, an ECM shielded target cannot be locked up without an assist from a UAV or PPC hit. Up close and personal you can get a lock as non-stealth ECM won’t prevent a lock under [120m?], but a fast moving mech at that range is difficult to lock. And a stealth mech always needs said assist to lock at all.

I’ve dropped to using SRM4’s instead. Simpler, lighter, tight spread, no need to shoot with PPC first.

[martian]

ScrapIron Prime, on 07 November 2021 - 08:00 PM, said:

This. At the limit of an SSRM’s range, an ECM shielded target cannot be locked up without an assist from a UAV or PPC hit. Up close and personal you can get a lock as non-stealth ECM won’t prevent a lock under [120m?], but a fast moving mech at that range is difficult to lock. And a stealth mech always needs said assist to lock at all.

I’ve dropped to using SRM4’s instead. Simpler, lighter, tight spread, no need to shoot with PPC first.

And of the top of that, the latest 'Mech Packs have added ECM Madcat, ECM Daishi and ECM Thunderbolt.

And the upcoming 'Mech Pack is going to re-introduce ECM Shadow Cat.

Have fun in your Streak-boat ...

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Verilligo, on 07 November 2021 - 06:11 AM, said:

[...]
What does help with lock-on times is proximity and LoS. If you're closer to the target and have LoS on them, lock-on times go down drastically compared to longer range or being outside LoS. I think active probes also help with decreasing lock-on times still, but the effect is fairly small compared to the gains from getting closer and getting your own sight on the target.

Some corrections:
LoS locks are not affected by proximity. An LoS Lock is always fastest, no further modifications.
IDF locks however are subject to proximity modifiers. The further away you are the longer it takes to lock-on, based on your own Sensor Range. And this is where the Active Probe modifies lock-on times - by increasing your Sensor Range. Active Probes have no other impact on lock-on times. (Except when in range to cancel enemy ECM, of course)

[The6thMessenger]

Hmm, I vaguely remember that the Artemis Lock-On Speed bonus NEVER worked in the first place before, clarified during the Lock-On and LRM Dual-Arc.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

The6thMessenger, on 08 November 2021 - 03:20 AM, said:

Hmm, I vaguely remember that the Artemis Lock-On Speed bonus NEVER worked in the first place before, clarified during the Lock-On and LRM Dual-Arc.

It worked. It worked even when there were no Artemis Weapons installed e.g. Artemis upgrade checked and only streaks installed. The speedbonus was removed with the lock-on and arc rework.

[Verilligo]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 08 November 2021 - 02:08 AM, said:

Some corrections:
LoS locks are not affected by proximity. An LoS Lock is always fastest, no further modifications.
IDF locks however are subject to proximity modifiers. The further away you are the longer it takes to lock-on, based on your own Sensor Range. And this is where the Active Probe modifies lock-on times - by increasing your Sensor Range. Active Probes have no other impact on lock-on times. (Except when in range to cancel enemy ECM, of course)

Thanks for the clarification. I had thought that proximity had some impact even on LoS locks, it's good to get that cleared up.

[GoodTry]

justcallme A S H, on 07 November 2021 - 06:09 PM, said:

Cauldron have asked, a few times.

There is a community one being made I believe as part of K2B's MWO Nav/Mechlab 2.0 website. There is already people working on it all, I was asked to help but I simply don't have the time currently

I'm working on the target info/information warfare page of that wiki (the K2B one). It has been very slow going, because there is so, so, so much bad information out there. I pretty much can't write anything on the draft wiki page without directly testing it in a private match, because things have changed so much over the years, and people present bad information as fact (ECM affects target info gathering times! BAP doesn't counter ECM! etc.) when they are just guessing.

Beyond all the bad info out there, the game behavior itself around certain items is very buggy and inconsistent. For example, did you know that the sensor range boost nodes and quirks increase the range at which you can detect ECM mechs, but that the +25% sensor range boost from BAP/CAP does NOT increase that range? Did you know that every time someone says you can detect a mech at 800m, they actually mean 799m? Did you know that in practice Clan Light Active Probe boosts target information gathering the exact same amount as a regular Clan Active Probe, despite what it says on the tin? It's crazy.

You can't even rely on the game files sometimes, as demonstrated by the recent failed attempt to rebalance the ECM skill tree nodes.

I faulted PGI for not updating its wiki, but writing documentation for this game is hard.

Edited by GoodTry, 08 November 2021 - 08:06 PM.

[Mochyn Pupur]

ScrapIron Prime, on 06 November 2021 - 07:26 AM, said:

Checking the “Artemis” box on the mech enables the behavior, because that’s the game code. SRM and LRM launchers then weigh more, but SSRM launchers do not… but still benefit from the logic that selecting “Artemis” applies. Hence the nerf.

Utter lack of ability to read the op and relate the comment, not surprised, the avg reading age does seem to be dropping - compare the srm v ssrm and the ssrm has weight and slot disadvantage, Artemis for any missile had a cost element regardless. OP stated a "free" upgrade to a system that already had the penalties applied and almost certainly meant BAP and TAG to make them anywhere near effective - watch many of the lurmers, still they cry for targets because they don't carry the rest of the suite to make them more effective, but he ssrm carriers are usually self sufficient.

[justcallme A S H]

GoodTry, on 08 November 2021 - 11:43 AM, said:

Spoiler

I'm working on the target info/information warfare page of that wiki (the K2B one). It has been very slow going, because there is so, so, so much bad information out there. I pretty much can't write anything on the draft wiki page without directly testing it in a private match, because things have changed so much over the years, and people present bad information as fact (ECM affects target info gathering times! BAP doesn't counter ECM! TAG counters stealth! etc.) when they are just guessing.

Beyond all the bad info out there, the game behavior itself around certain items is very buggy and inconsistent. For example, did you know that the sensor range boost nodes and quirks increase the range at which you can detect ECM mechs, but that the +25% sensor range boost from BAP/CAP does NOT increase that range? Did you know that every time someone says you can detect a mech at 800m, they actually mean 799m? Did you know that in practice Clan Light Active Probe boosts target information gathering the exact same amount as a regular Clan Active Probe, despite what it says on the tin? It's crazy.

You can't even rely on the game files sometimes, as demonstrated by the recent failed attempt to rebalance the ECM skill tree nodes.

I faulted PGI for not updating its wiki, but writing documentation for this game is hard.

Yep having tested many things myself in Private Lobbies, often on stream when we see something odd happen, I know exactly how complicated it is.

Navid has found many more of course during process of Cauldron work. A lot of the things you are finding are things some people know but at times not many.

It certainly is not easy and once you get into it you find that the community spreads a LOT of misinformation. Sometimes knowingly, sometimes unknowingly.

That said once it is done - it rarely changes or has changed in many many years.

[Curccu]

GoodTry, on 08 November 2021 - 11:43 AM, said:

I'm working on the target info/information warfare page of that wiki (the K2B one). It has been very slow going, because there is so, so, so much bad information out there. I pretty much can't write anything on the draft wiki page without directly testing it in a private match, because things have changed so much over the years, and people present bad information as fact (ECM affects target info gathering times! BAP doesn't counter ECM! etc.) when they are just guessing.

Sometimes when trying to counter argue those claims in here forums and trying to find PGI written proof... it is hard, patch note achieve is not easily accessible (its subforum folder is somehow fd up), searching something with google or forum search is stupid hard, some info is only available in some test server note and so on, in game tooltips lack so much info etc.

Hats off if you can manage find correct info and write that down to wiki.

Edited by Curccu, 09 November 2021 - 01:28 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Patchnotes (almost all) can be reached here: https://mwomercs.com/game/patch-notes

[Curccu]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 09 November 2021 - 01:46 AM, said:

Patchnotes (almost all) can be reached here: https://mwomercs.com/game/patch-notes

Cool, didn't know there was that kind of shortcut.

[martian]

GoodTry, on 08 November 2021 - 11:43 AM, said:

...
You can't even rely on the game files sometimes, as demonstrated by the recent failed attempt to rebalance the ECM skill tree nodes.

I faulted PGI for not updating its wiki, but writing documentation for this game is hard.

Sometimes it is down to pure laziness on the PGI's side: The in-game info regarding Inner Sphere LRMs simply shows that the minimum range is somewhere between 0 and 375 m.

Hardly sufficient for the game that Russ Bullock founded with the hope that it will become "e-sport" one day ...

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

caravann, on 07 November 2021 - 06:08 AM, said:

I can confirm that Streak is junk, using an Arctic wolf with both SSRM and SRM, 1/2 of the time is tracking the target instead of shooting at the target. Enemy around the corner? You're done. The SSRM is working for a very situation who a skilled player already figured out. It is possible to fire away the missiles and turn around. Why would you want to do that in first place. Mostly useful on a jumpjet mech who have sensors who can see through mountains, because you need to have sensors who already locked the target and stay locked forever. Once it is locked the mech can jump up and launch the missiles. It means that not only do you need streak but you'll need every blunt knife in the kitchen to pull it off with Narc, active probe or a scout looking at the target and a uav. Then we have the cheap option - SRM , you do not need anything, any skill points into sensors, no active probe, no uav, no scouting. The IS mechs, they have active probes weight of 1 whole ton. The only thing that could be used against is jumping mechs, then every single jumping mech is inferior to any mech who has no jumping capability as those jumpjets cost tonnages. But wait how do we balance this? Oh yes we make streak heavier! So why are we using streak, to hit the center! But then is an ac10 able to hit the center? Yes! Why aren't we using ac10? Because it weight more! Are streaks hitting the center? No! Then why are we not using an ac10? Because, because... It makes things explode! Like it does when an ac10 hits the ammo bin? Yes!

dont want to say i dont understand what you saying BUT its a matter of fact that nothing shreds 160 kph light mechs better then my ssrm6 x 6 (36 homing in on the pesty light mech missles per volley) Mad-Dog.
You wreck, or at least cripple a pirahna or flea or locust with 2 (if lucky) - 3 (for sure) volleys because they simply cant evade
those projectles.Try to fight off one of these light mechs in close range combat with AC10.Even if you have 6 of them and hit multiple times, the hit reg gonna make you suffer big time against this little ********.
And believe me, every light gonna avoid you like aids the moment he realized you got a bunch streaks equipped
(at least 4 mounts to be a no-no for them)

martian, on 07 November 2021 - 11:14 AM, said:

Well, yes and no. Such loadout is good against light 'Mechs, not so much against heavier 'Mechs.

Once you learn how to lead target when using SRMs, you will find out that SRMs (with Artemis IV FCS, if needed) are better solution overall, because they are effective against both light 'Mechs ... and against medium, heavy and Assault 'Mechs too.

And let us not forget the relative abundance of ECM 'Mechs on the current MWO battlefield that complicates the use of Streak SRMs even further..

read post above to get my point, i didnt talked about defeating heavier mechs with them as the weapon of choice

[martian]

1312SHR1312, on 28 November 2021 - 06:01 PM, said:

read post above to get my point, i didnt talked about defeating heavier mechs with them as the weapon of choice

Well, it often happens that one must fight heavier 'Mechs when piloting a Streak-boat, whether one wants it or not.