23 replies to this topic

[Meatroid]

Am I the only one who feels like it would be a great time to increase the group size up from four again? Too often my group finds ourselves playing other games due to the limited group size. I miss the old days where you could mash in as many people as possible and have huge groups.

[Ekson Valdez]

This thread has been moved to General Discussion

[Maddermax]

Not really. I like access to groups, as it’s allowed me to get several friends into the game. We’re very casual, and while my win/loss has suffered showing newer players around the maps, it’s been hella fun. I’m very supportive of small groups for this very reason - a lot of players want to play with someone they know, and won’t bother playing if it’s not together. I went from sync dropping with one other player last year (because group queue in Australian late night was literal 30min waits) to having 6 players around the game now.

The problem is, the larger the group, the larger the influence on the game and coordination will be. A good team of 4 working together can already have a big impact on the game, but usually outside of comp level groups they aren’t insurmountable for normal quickplay teams to overcome. A team of 8-12 however though can absolutely dominate if it’s anything other than an ultra casual group, as anyone coordinating load outs and movements can just dominate a normal Quick Play Pick-up group, and it’s not a fun experience for anyone. My experience from the old group queue was that the larger the group, the more coordinated and hardcore the group was, so whenever a bunch of small groups ran into a 12 man, it was always a stomp, because those were almost always the comp-level teams.

It’s much better for that one group to be broken up to 2 or 3 smaller groups, in different matches or opposing sides. On the few occasions we’ve had all 6 players in our group around, we simply break into 2 groups of 3, and just roll separately while chatting. It’s a perfectly fine way to play with a bigger group within the current rules.

Edited by Maddermax, 13 December 2021 - 03:17 AM.

[PocketYoda]

No.. Remove groups

[SirEpicPwner]

Big groups were removed because they stomped even harder than current 4 mans can. You have to think as a solo player when asking for large group sizes again, no one wants to be stomped by an 8 man all on the same voip call.

[pbiggz]

There hasn't been a real statistical change to win loss rates since the queue merger, but given it is a merged queue, it's probably not a great idea to increase the group size, at least not in an uncontrolled way. Much better would be to host faction play events or pull the faction play queue back into the limelight in some way, that's really the place where large groups are meant to thrive.

MechaGnome, on 13 December 2021 - 05:21 AM, said:

No.. Remove groups

[redacted]

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 14 December 2021 - 12:05 AM.

[John Bronco]

You can make a far better case that 4 is too many rather than not enough.

[Mochyn Pupur]

Meatroid, on 12 December 2021 - 09:29 AM, said:

Am I the only one who feels like it would be a great time to increase the group size up from four again? Too often my group finds ourselves playing other games due to the limited group size. I miss the old days where you could mash in as many people as possible and have huge groups.

Yes.

Idiotic suggestion when looking at the current imbalance caused by even 4 man groups in QP. Drop down to pairs and invest in CW/FP to make it attractive again.

[pbiggz]

PeppaPig, on 13 December 2021 - 09:40 AM, said:

Yes.

Idiotic suggestion when looking at the current imbalance caused by even 4 man groups in QP. Drop down to pairs and invest in CW/FP to make it attractive again.

The "current imbalance" you're alleging exists, doesn't exist.

However we are in agreement on the need to make FP a viable place for larger groups. The fact that an entire queue, a major one, one that had been waited for, literally for years, is now essentially abandoned except for when a few 12 mans agree to queue in it, is a colossal failure.

[Black Caiman]

I agree with Bronco. If anything, groups should be limited to 3 rather than moved up from 4. Even a 3 man of high tier players would probably win the vast majority of their games if they were actually trying. 4 mans of high tier players are going to win 90% of the time. Of course, these groups are rare, but they are also the groups that cause the most consternation among the general population. If you get "too many" people on at the same time, then just make multiple groups.

[pbiggz]

Black Caiman, on 13 December 2021 - 11:52 AM, said:

I agree with Bronco. If anything, groups should be limited to 3 rather than moved up from 4. Even a 3 man of high tier players would probably win the vast majority of their games if they were actually trying. 4 mans of high tier players are going to win 90% of the time. Of course, these groups are rare, but they are also the groups that cause the most consternation among the general population. If you get "too many" people on at the same time, then just make multiple groups.

Edge cases are not a justification for you telling people how they can and can't play.

[Brauer]

pbiggz, on 13 December 2021 - 11:58 AM, said:

Edge cases are not a justification for you telling people how they can and can't play.

The modes with big groups (GQ and FW) have historically had the lowest populations. It is not wise to increase group size in QP.

[pbiggz]

Brauer, on 13 December 2021 - 12:16 PM, said:

The modes with big groups (GQ and FW) have historically had the lowest populations. It is not wise to increase group size in QP.

Which is why I did not advocate for it. It should be left the way it is, effort should be made to make FP a more viable and popular queue.

[Davegt27]

when I first started in mid 2014 groups/teams dropped together it did not bother me

another idea

during one of the NGNG pod casts when asked the old lead programmer said they give new players a boost

so it appears PGI has the capability to electronically boost players (for lack of a better term)

why not nerf groups so when they enter solo que they have a handicap

that way it would not be a problem to have bigger groups

sort of a hand tied behind there back (also called self balancing, a term used by some players)

of course we would have to insist on no more sync drops sine that hinder any efforts to make the system work

[pbiggz]

Davegt27, on 13 December 2021 - 01:22 PM, said:

when I first started in mid 2014 groups/teams dropped together it did not bother me

another idea

during one of the NGNG pod casts when asked the old lead programmer said they give new players a boost

so it appears PGI has the capability to electronically boost players (for lack of a better term)

why not nerf groups so when they enter solo que they have a handicap

that way it would not be a problem to have bigger groups

sort of a hand tied behind there back (also called self balancing, a term used by some players)

of course we would have to insist on no more sync drops sine that hinder any efforts to make the system work

There was no statistical change in win loss rates before and after season 46. The group limit in quickplay should not be touched. Handicaps should not be applied, they are not necessary. Larger groups belong in faction play. That queue needs to be recovered and repaired. That should be the priority, not punishing group players or solo players.

Edited by pbiggz, 13 December 2021 - 01:31 PM.

[Little Nemo]

I for one think 12 mech teams are complete aids. The days of 8 mechs on The classic maps were the best the game has ever been.

[pbiggz]

Little Nemo, on 13 December 2021 - 01:57 PM, said:

I for one think 12 mech teams are complete aids. The days of 8 mechs on The classic maps were the best the game has ever been.

Yes and no.

8 mans were far more fun than 12 mans. You're right about that. But I am old enough to remember the TEMPLARS and their 8 atlas drops. That wasn't fun to play against.

[Little Nemo]

pbiggz, on 13 December 2021 - 03:05 PM, said:

Yes and no.

8 mans were far more fun than 12 mans. You're right about that. But I am old enough to remember the TEMPLARS and their 8 atlas drops. That wasn't fun to play against.

When I played for SJR, we would do wacky things like this at then end of our practices. Killing a team with all trial Jenners isn't hard with coordination.

[pbiggz]

Little Nemo, on 13 December 2021 - 03:20 PM, said:

When I played for SJR, we would do wacky things like this at then end of our practices. Killing a team with all trial Jenners isn't hard with coordination.

To be fair, you *cant* drop 8-12 atlases anymore.

That said, one of my fondest memories of faction play, was running with DERP in the old days, and parking 12 atlases just behind the gates on boreal vault defense. I had never seen an enemy team *turn around, and run away from us with their backs facing us* before.

That kind of game is wacky fun. I hope everyone gets a chance to experience it. It only happened really in faction play. Want to play with big groups again? You know what PGI needs to fix.

[GoodTry]

Just play in faction play.