71 replies to this topic

[Sjorpha]

Meep Meep, on 13 December 2021 - 07:35 PM, said:

Show us your light and medium lppc fits then. Maybe you have a few others haven't figured out yet.

For ligths with 4LPPCs Katana Cat is the strongest since it has the HSL quirk, probably the strongest LPPC light overall. 3LPPCs loadouts are good on the Spider 5d for example but also on several other lights. Like Heavy Money points out it's a very efficient weapon for it's range.

For heavier mechs it's more about being the weapon that best slots into complementing a ballistic build when heavier PPCs don't fit. For example on some UAC5 king crab builds, the 3AC10 + 3LPPC Annihilator 1A build or on heavies with UAC10s like the Cataphract 3D.

For mediums I've found they don't really fit that often because you either run ballistics with no extra tonnage or you run just PPCs in which case 3 regular PPCs or 2 ERPPCs make more sense. I'm fine with weapons having niches where they fit though so I don't consider that a problem.

Like other PPFLD weapons it's going to scale very strongly with aim since you need a high hit percentage on the right component for that efficiency to add up (as compared to more forgiving weapons such as lasers), and with low damage per hit this scaling is compounded as you need to score those hits often to keep your heat up (whenever your heat goes to 0% you are losing DPS) , again another PPFLD weapon that uses more heat at once (like ERPPC) or is heat neautral (like Gauss) will be more forgiving in the sense of allowing more time to line up those shots. So I'd expect them to feel comparably weaker the worse your aim is, more so than most other weapons.

Edited by Sjorpha, 14 December 2021 - 12:53 AM.

[Meep Meep]

The 3 lppc fits ain't cutting it for me. Just not enough damage to be more than a meme fit.

Didn't know the KK had such a sweet collection of ppc usable quirks either but no ecm..

Otherwise I suppose its a tradeoff between the loyalty urbie and KK between a bit better lppc performance or staying unseen as you snipe.

PNT-KK

UM-R80L

A bit slower but jumpier KK

PNT-KK

If I was to go with a 3 lppc fit then it would be like this.

UM-R80L

Edited by Meep Meep, 14 December 2021 - 01:17 AM.

[LordNothing]

you can make the 4 lppc urbie work with stealth, you just need to bring extra cool shots to dump your heat while stealthed. you can also turn it off when you dont need it.

[Meep Meep]

Stealth is kind of redundant on it though. With both ecm nodes unlocked you get a 55% reduction in enemy targeting range. So if they didn't invest in the sensor range skills the base 800 is dropped down to 360 and the 1080 of a full sensor node unlock is reduced to 486 both of which are far under the 624 optimal of the lppc on the loyalty urbie. So thats effectively stealth armor with none of the drawbacks and you can counter spot them as you snipe with impunity.

[Curccu]

LordNothing, on 13 December 2021 - 08:37 PM, said:

maybe we should be debating the role of the hppc instead.

And standard PPC... does it have any use without using punch of AC5s/10s or a AC20 with those?

edit: And what others already kinda said LPPC doesn't have to be good or even decent on heavy/assaults mechs, it can be light/light medium mech niche... you don't see many light mechs running around with HGR or AC20 either and if you do they are not even niche builds.. just bad joke builds.

Edited by Curccu, 14 December 2021 - 04:42 AM.

[PocketYoda]

Light ppc are good slightly on par with medium lasers.. Heavier but some what better range.. Average in my opinion..

Standard PPC are garbage.. until the 90 meter dead zone goes away they will stay that way.. Same with Heavy PPC Heavies are worse as their heat and weight make it tough to carry other weapons on most mechs... I know its lore and i'd love to stand by it but in MWO high speed pin point accuracy they suck.

As soon as anyone with any brains sees you are using them they rush you and when they do you are dead.. Unless you carry backup weapons. Also the three rule ghost heat is dumb.

This works amazing
CHP-1NB

Edited by MechaGnome, 14 December 2021 - 04:58 AM.

[GoodTry]

Light PPCs are in a great place right now IMO. They are useful for many builds without being OP. Yes, 3 of them by themselves feel weak, but they are usually paired with something else (2ML, 5SL, etc.). They are also a great way to add extra burst damage on some builds with odd hardpoints.

HPPC are also useful when boated on HSL mechs.

Normal PPCs are a bit iffy IMO, because of the 90m range limitation, but it's pretty hard to think of a spot for them between the two extremes.

Edited by GoodTry, 14 December 2021 - 06:38 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Do not forget that the minrange on standard PPCs is no longer a hard damage cap, but rather a fall off.

[pbiggz]

GoodTry, on 14 December 2021 - 06:37 AM, said:

Light PPCs are in a great place right now IMO. They are useful for many builds without being OP. Yes, 3 of them by themselves feel weak, but they are usually paired with something else (2ML, 5SL, etc.). They are also a great way to add extra burst damage on some builds with odd hardpoints.

HPPC are also useful when boated on HSL mechs.

Normal PPCs are a bit iffy IMO, because of the 90m range limitation, but it's pretty hard to think of a spot for them between the two extremes.

For the sake of making light snipers an actual threat, i would like to see LPPC damage elevated at least just a bit.

One potential niche for light PPCs would be heat. They've always been cooler than ERs, maybe making them even cooler would make them worth taking.

Surprised by the hate for heavies. They really belong on bigger mechs. A triple HPPC punches scary hard.

[Ken Harkin]

Marauder MAD-5M, 2 LPPC in the right arm, 2 Light Gauss, 3 ERML left arm, 280 LFE, 2 JJ. Those Light Gauss and LPPC are doing 31 pinpoint at 500+ meters over and over and over again with quick cool-down. Try it.

[Curccu]

pbiggz, on 14 December 2021 - 07:27 AM, said:

Surprised by the hate for heavies. They really belong on bigger mechs. A triple HPPC punches scary hard.

Had to check how many mechs can have 3xHPPC without penalty and not many... but might try Thunderbolt, sustained DPS is about same as LPPC urbie

Dual HPPC works decently on Mjölnir poptart... is it better than dual gauss poptart... dunno but different.

Edited by Curccu, 14 December 2021 - 11:09 AM.

[Abohac]

Curccu, on 14 December 2021 - 11:09 AM, said:

Had to check how many mechs can have 3xHPPC without penalty and not many... but might try Thunderbolt, sustained DPS is about same as LPPC urbie

Dual HPPC works decently on Mjölnir poptart... is it better than dual gauss poptart... dunno but different.

If I remember correctly 3 HPPCs don't have GH by default.

[Curccu]

Abohac, on 14 December 2021 - 11:22 AM, said:

If I remember correctly 3 HPPCs don't have GH by default.

You do not extra 16.38 Heat for shooting that 3rd

edit: finally MDB has https://mwo.nav-alph...pment/ghostheat weapons table, awesome tool.

Edited by Curccu, 14 December 2021 - 11:49 AM.

[pbiggz]

Curccu, on 14 December 2021 - 11:48 AM, said:

You do not extra 16.38 Heat for shooting that 3rd

edit: finally MDB has https://mwo.nav-alph...pment/ghostheat weapons table, awesome tool.

I definitely dont take them unless I can stack the third, which does limit them to certain mechs only. I guess that's 50 DKP minus for them.

Edited by pbiggz, 14 December 2021 - 11:52 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

I rather like fielding dual PPC when I can back them up with something else, like MRMs or autocannons. The secondary weapons and the new damage fall off make it so you're not helpless under 90m. And BECAUSE of that scaling damage, I'd rather run 3 PPC for the extra ton than 2 HPPC.

Examples: Grand Dragon, Marauder 3R

For light PPC's, I tend to field them in either a group of 3 or two groups of 2 or not at all. They make great primary weapons for a Jenner, for example, and as backup weapons for larger mechs, such as my lulz build... Mister Peeps.

Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta go explore a new map.

[LordNothing]

Curccu, on 14 December 2021 - 04:27 AM, said:

And standard PPC... does it have any use without using punch of AC5s/10s or a AC20 with those?

edit: And what others already kinda said LPPC doesn't have to be good or even decent on heavy/assaults mechs, it can be light/light medium mech niche... you don't see many light mechs running around with HGR or AC20 either and if you do they are not even niche builds.. just bad joke builds.

i actually started using the standard ppc since the last change. the only thing keeping me from using it before was the hard minimum range. its a good option for builds that cant carry a lot of heat sinks. the hppc still kind of has a niche on hardpoint starved mechs with tonnage to spare.

there is a lot of utility in having a few lppcs on mixed builds beyond just the light/medium lppc boats. you might not want to run an assault lppc boat but im sure you can find uses for it.

[Alstren]

Light PPCs are slightly out preforming normal PPCs

[ScrapIron Prime]

Alstren, on 14 December 2021 - 05:24 PM, said:

Light PPCs are slightly out preforming normal PPCs

Right, 2 LPPC > 1 PPC. But you start talking ghost heat after your 3rd (or in some cases 4th) LPPC. PPC's keep on delivering past that. A triple PPC blast takes 3 energy slots and has no ghost heat, while SIX LPPC does the same damage but in two shots and twice the hardpoints.

[LordNothing]

for when you are off your meds.

[PocketYoda]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 14 December 2021 - 07:05 AM, said:

Do not forget that the minrange on standard PPCs is no longer a hard damage cap, but rather a fall off.

It still isn't enough.