14 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

Mechs (mostly heavies and assaults) dish out more and more damage across a long distance. This leads to mechs blowing up faster while the fights often play out as trench warfare where no one is willing to move for several minutes - for a very good reason.

This begs the question, why add further and further power creep by buffing offensive systems? Why not for a change the defensive?

A proposal: if you move at speed A/B/C you get a damage reduction of X%/Y%/Z%?

This would solve a couple of problems at once:
1. TTK would increase somewhat

2. Flowing (and therefore interesting) combat would be supported again while whack-a-mole gets a bit curbed

3. The faster mechs would get thrown a bone (not just lights but also meds and faster heavies - to various degrees according to their speed)


Mind you, the % should be minor and reasonable and see how it puns out and maybe some armour quirks can be removed

Edited by Weeny Machine, 19 February 2022 - 01:56 AM.

[Curccu]

Kinda interesting idea but not sure if it would be good for this game.
+ Requires coding... no coders working with MWO.

[Weeny Machine]

Curccu, on 19 February 2022 - 03:12 AM, said:

Kinda interesting idea but not sure if it would be good for this game.
+ Requires coding... no coders working with MWO.

Ok...then there won't be anything but xml changes and a re-scale is out of the question most likely as well.

[KaptinOrk]

I would like something like this. Like you said, it would have to be fairly minor to keep it balanced, but it would be a nice benefit for those of us that like going fast for our weight class.

We already have constant "LiHgT mEcH oP" threads from bad assault 'mech players, It would only make them saltier and I'm ok with that.

[Horseman]

Weeny Machine, on 19 February 2022 - 01:39 AM, said:

A proposal: if you move at speed A/B/C you get a damage reduction of X%/Y%/Z%?

No. It would work in a strategy game, but goes against the principles of a shooter.

[Kanil]

Horseman, on 19 February 2022 - 04:38 PM, said:

No. It would work in a strategy game, but goes against the principles of a shooter.

I played HBS's video game and didn't think it really worked well there either, honestly.

[Knownswift]

The alternative to trading is nascar.

[Weeny Machine]

Horseman, on 19 February 2022 - 04:38 PM, said:

No. It would work in a strategy game, but goes against the principles of a shooter.

Damage resistance (for that what it is) hasn't worked in a shooter before? Are you serious?

[Horseman]

Weeny Machine, on 20 February 2022 - 03:54 AM, said:

Damage resistance (for that what it is) hasn't worked in a shooter before? Are you serious?

That's not what it is and you're making a strawman argument. We can both agree that a target's movement decreases the accuracy with which you can land shots on it, right?
Now, in strategy games you have little to no control over your troops' aim - so the increased difficulty of hitting a moving target is represented by a mechanical abstraction.
But in MWO, both you and your opponent have full direct control over, respectively, your aim and your opponent's evasive maneuvers - arguably, those are the most basic skills for playing first person shooters and trying to negate them makes zero sense.
Slapping both of those systems on top of each is just you wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

Edited by Horseman, 20 February 2022 - 11:30 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Horseman, on 20 February 2022 - 06:27 AM, said:

That's not what it is and you're making a strawman argument. We can both agree that a target's movement decreases the accuracy with which you can land shots on it, right?
Now, in strategy games you have little to no control over your troops' aim - so the increased difficulty of hitting a moving target is represented by a mechanical abstraction.
But in MWO, both you and your opponent have full direct control over, respectively, your aim and your opponent's evasive maneuvers - arguably, those are the most basic skills for playing first person shooters and trying to negate them makes zero sense.
Slapping both of those systems on top of each is just you wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

You speak about a "strawman argument" when yours are just ridiculous? Of course, there are no shooters where e.g. body armour or damage dampening shields reduce the damage and *gasp* if you move fast you are also harder to hit. Noooo! They combine these two systems. That's...*takes breath*....that's whoa completely nuts!
So much for a "strawman" argument. Just because the mechanic works a bit differet and is dependent on a condition, doesn't change the effect.

And speaking about another strawman argument...the 20t mechs aside, if you have problem hitting one of the 30-35t or one of the faster mediummechs, well...I better do not comment on that. Seems someone else wants his cake and eat it too (bigger = better) and your subtle implication that light mechs are op...yeah, that's why each match is overrun with them, right?

[Horseman]

Weeny Machine, on 20 February 2022 - 12:54 PM, said:

Of course, there are no shooters where e.g. body armour or damage dampening shields

There are - but what you're proposing is neither of those. The mechanics you refer to tend to have various limitations that make their optimal utilization (and countering) a matter of skill, which your proposal doesn't, and in case you missed that, MWO already has armor functioning as your health pool before your mech starts losing components.

Quote

They combine these two systems. That's...*takes breath*....that's whoa completely nuts!

Those games have justification for these mechanics, one way or another. You, on the other hand, don't: "make me more durable cause i go faster" fails basic plausibility.

Quote

And speaking about another strawman argument...the 20t mechs aside, if you have problem hitting one of the 30-35t or one of the faster mediummechs, well...I better do not comment on that.

You're the one making a strawman argument here by implying that I must be a bad shot to oppose you. I oppose bad design that slaps poorly justified mechanical bandaids onto things that either are not a problem or are better achieved by changing parameters that already exist in the game such as armor or mobility characteristics.

Quote

Seems someone else wants his cake and eat it too (bigger = better)

False.

Quote

and your subtle implication that light mechs are op...

Except I made no such implication. What I made was a simple statement: basic gameplay elements that are founded in player skill should be left to it. If I take a light mech and charge straight into enemy firing line, I deserve to get it shot out from under me because I've done goofed. If I'm getting hit because I do a **** job at actually evading enemy fire, that's typically a problem with my gameplay and not with game mechanics.
You're asking to change basic mechanics (red flag 1) to reduce the impact of individual player skill (red flag 2) when less intrusive ways of achieving similar end goal already exist (red flag 3) and at least one - the rescale - is supposed to be in the pipeline (red flag 4).

Edited by Horseman, 21 February 2022 - 12:18 AM.

[Ekson Valdez]

This thread has been moved to Feature Suggestions.

[Bamboozle Gold]

Weeny Machine, on 19 February 2022 - 01:39 AM, said:

A proposal: if you move at speed A/B/C you get a damage reduction of X%/Y%/Z%?

I like the idea but as others have pointed out there's no possibility of getting this kind of a change in MWO at the moment.

I'd just suggest increasing the durability of lights considerably, and lowering their top speed slightly to prevent the current hit register issues that occasionally make lights a bit frustrating to encounter.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Yeahbut... in the board game, movement is not armor, movement is a lower chance of hitting. That worked in HBS Battletech, but that's not gonna work well in a first person shooter. Making it damage reduction instead would be... weird. And it would reward nascar... which we don't want to do.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

If I want to prevent a player from moving stupidly or from hitting and aiming badly, I make a strategy game with variables and abstract probabilities, an electronic nanny for him, which only leaves him with the tactical planning, or only give him certain ranges and movement options.

To drive a light Mech in MWO is like other Games to drive a Humvee or Katjusha against Tiger and Abrams Tanks.


Anyone who enjoys playing David against Goliath should do it, but don't complain if they are quickly terminated.its very complicated and a Part for good Mech jockeys
Anyone who enjoys playing David against Goliath should do it, but don't complain if they are quickly terminated

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 22 February 2022 - 03:49 AM.