110 replies to this topic

[martian]

[redacted]

Seelenlos, on 05 March 2022 - 04:56 PM, said:

Thx for reasoning but that reasoning is also wrong.

You imply that lights would be nerfed, THEY SHOULD BE. THEY ARE LIGHTS IN THE ******* BATTLETECH-GROUND.

I believe that yesterday I already told you: MechWarrior Online is not the simulator of the tabletop BattleTech.

MechWarrior Online is a tactical, 'Mech-based online shooter set in the BattleTech Universe.

Seelenlos, on 05 March 2022 - 04:56 PM, said:

THEY HAVE SPECIFIC ROLES:
1. SCOUTING FIRST <> FIGHTING FIRST
2. SUPPORTING
3. DAMAGE DEALING WHEN THE OTHER CLASSES ARE AT EACH OTHER THROAT.

Else paperwork!

You forgot to mention the fourth specific role of the light 'Mechs: FIGHTING OTHER 'MECHS.

For example, the Wolfhound was designed specifically to fight other BattleMechs.

The Jenner was designed as a close-range fighter.

And of course ... the Piranha. The Piranha is specifically described in BattleTech books as being successful when fighting other 'Mechs, especially heavier designs such as the Thunder Stallion or the Turkina.

Seelenlos, on 05 March 2022 - 04:56 PM, said:

By the reasoning of that It would mean that an AC5 must give damage of 20, AC10 by 50 and AC20 By 100 vs any other Mechs in meelee, IF we imply that every ammo of a light has 1 damage point = 6000 Damages !!!!

THAT does not equals each other.

One ton of MG ammo has exactly the same default values whether it is loaded in a light 'Mech or in Assault 'Mech.

Seelenlos, on 05 March 2022 - 04:56 PM, said:

Specially when the game has been "tweaked" that it rarly registers a full AC or Laser blow on a light Mech!
For lights the MG is fully counted hit or miss!

Not hitting the light 'Mech (or not holding the laser beam on the light 'Mech or one 'Mech's section long enough to deal a meaningful damage) is not the same as faulty hit registration.

Seelenlos, on 05 March 2022 - 04:56 PM, said:

It is not that they also have the penalty of graze!

You can not give a mech-class 2 bonuses at a time:
- Get-Hit-Bonus and
- Damage-Bonus
AND
at the same time give them Perks like Damage-Reduction Fall and Collision !!!

This is fully IMBA. And there is exactly NONE-Reason to excuse BESIDES you have the POWER TO CHOOSE THAT!

Do not confuse bad gunnery skills and occassional hit registration problem with some secret bonus given to the light 'Mechs by PGI.

Seelenlos, on 05 March 2022 - 04:56 PM, said:

(Rreminds me of NATO and PUTIN - Both wrong, but both only have the power to choose, no one else! Rest have to swollow the choice!)

The right place for discussing the current real world events is here: Jettisoned Communication

Seelenlos, on 05 March 2022 - 04:56 PM, said:

If you understand the point!

It is not fun! The risk must be for both sides in an MMO game!

Regards

You really should buy PIR-1 Piranha and play it exclusively for the rest of the March to fully appreciate the risks of piloting light 'Mechs in MWO.

Edited by Armchair General, 06 March 2022 - 12:16 AM.
Quote cleanup

[Armchair General]

Please keep the discussion civil in this thread going forward.
This request is especially applicable for member Seelenlos. Thank you

Edited by Armchair General, 06 March 2022 - 12:18 AM.

[Eider]

People like to scream that just learn to aim.. i mean like every robot has the same torso speed right? and its not like ping/lag and hitboxes combine so that a light running at full speed is unlikely to be hit by anything thus making it tougher right? or that being so small doesnt let them hide behind rocks etc. I just got off playing my mist lynx and died about 3 times today, even 1 vs 1 an assault.. yea not op at all must be all the bad players since the game was in alpha. lol

btw i fully expect my comment to be reported and this 9999th thread about this closed because this community is toxic as are the moderators .. lol

Edited by Eider, 06 March 2022 - 12:47 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Seelenlos, on 05 March 2022 - 06:36 PM, said:

A. Good at aiming mostly with PL is not an issue you can ride on, so stop complaining you have more brains or skills than others

A pulse laser is no pinpoint weapon like a Gauss or PPC which means if your aim is off, and by fast moving swerving mechs this is more than likely, that you spray it over several location and some even miss.

The sooner you accept that, the better.

And if you think PIRs are easy mode...please play them for a season and show us your results.

Eider, on 06 March 2022 - 12:46 AM, said:

People like to scream that just learn to aim.. i mean like every robot has the same torso speed right? and its not like ping/lag and hitboxes combine so that a light running at full speed is unlikely to be hit by anything thus making it tougher right? or that being so small doesnt let them hide behind rocks etc. I just got off playing my mist lynx and died about 3 times today, even 1 vs 1 an assault.. yea not op at all must be all the bad players since the game was in alpha. lol

btw i fully expect my comment to be reported and this 9999th thread about this closed because this community is toxic as are the moderators .. lol

The re-scaling was terrible imo. The 35t mechs are too easy to hit and the 20t mechs are a tad too small

Edited by Weeny Machine, 06 March 2022 - 01:00 AM.

[Curccu]

Eider, on 06 March 2022 - 12:46 AM, said:

People like to scream that just learn to aim.. i mean like every robot has the same torso speed right? and its not like ping/lag and hitboxes combine so that a light running at full speed is unlikely to be hit by anything thus making it tougher right? or that being so small doesnt let them hide behind rocks etc.

Yep thats why learn to aim is very proper comment, if you can't hit target there might be something you could do better.

Eider, on 06 March 2022 - 12:46 AM, said:

I just got off playing my mist lynx and died about 3 times today, even 1 vs 1 an assault.. yea not op at all must be all the bad
players since the game was in alpha. lol

Diad about 3 times out of ??? many games?
Why shouldn't lights be able to beat assaults in 1 vs 1? That doesn't make them OP.
game was on alpha? Alpine peaks? all of the games were in alpine peaks? or you died only 3 times in 1 map. lol

Eider, on 06 March 2022 - 12:46 AM, said:

btw i fully expect my comment to be reported and this 9999th thread about this closed because this community is toxic as are the moderators .. lol

reported why, do you think you are insulting other players or mods right now so fiercely that you need to be reported? .. lol

[martian]

Seelenlos, on 05 March 2022 - 05:39 PM, said:

Then it is EITHER pay-to-win (whatever) or IMBA by desire.

Please note that of all four listed light 'Mechs, three of them are available for C-Bills. Only the "Pirates' Bane" must be bought for MCs.

And although deploying in "Pirates' Bane" is fun, this lightly armored light 'Mech with four lasers and a pair of Machine Guns is definitely no "pay-to-win" 'Mech. Or do you really think that "Pirates' Bane" is more powerful than Mad Cat Mk. II, Blood Asp or Fafnir?

Seelenlos, on 05 March 2022 - 06:02 PM, said:

AND this post is nearly telling it all:
They are so derp, they reduce armor BECAUSE they lend on lag-shield and take more and/or heavier weapons!

Removing 1 ton of armor from 20-tonner means lowering its armor by 32 points, so you can mount one additional Medium laser ...

Removing 1 ton of armor from the stock PIR-1 Piranha would mean reducing its weak armor protection from 128 armor points to laughable 96 armor points and risk being killed or crippled by some stray shot. I do not think that many light 'Mech pilots would consider it to be a good idea.

Seelenlos, on 05 March 2022 - 06:02 PM, said:

HEY DERP, no one tells you to take a PPC or AT BEST 3 PPC in a light Mech!
IT IS YOU AND ONLY YOU AND YOUR ******* WRONG CHOISE LENDING ON GAME MECHANICS AND NOT THE STD -APPROACH of building a sustainable Mech!

You hand your BRAINS and go in MECHLAB is not my problem and I AM ABOUT TO MAKE THAT SURE IN THIS POST!


You can also make a Light Mech with less weapons and "other" tools to play! YOU DONT WANT, YOUR BAD BRAINLESS CHOICE!

What exactly is "building a sustainable Mech!"?

[Eider]

Curccu, on 06 March 2022 - 01:02 AM, said:

Yep thats why learn to aim is very proper comment, if you can't hit target there might be something you could do better.



Diad about 3 times out of ??? many games?
Why shouldn't lights be able to beat assaults in 1 vs 1? That doesn't make them OP.
game was on alpha? Alpine peaks? all of the games were in alpine peaks? or you died only 3 times in 1 map. lol


reported why, do you think you are insulting other players or mods right now so fiercely that you need to be reported? .. lol

out of how many games? well i played for about 4 hours at least lol, and its already happening on this thread to answer the second question no? i find it pretty laughable as it has happened before when i mentioned the same points about lights that i already had. I believe even after stating i would not continue the discussion i got a note from mods not to. Frankly you all just want an echo chamber and that is why i dont bother to post most of the time.
Oh and to answer the last question wich is my fav, why shoulnt lights be able to 1 vs 1 an assault? why then should assaults have low speed and low twist and giant hitboxes? shoulnt they also have low profiles? you see where this goes.. the real question is always.. why play anything but lights if they have all the advantages? whats that? a little extra armor and little extra weapons but you move like a slug and turn like you broke a hip? why?

Edited by Eider, 06 March 2022 - 03:02 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Eider, on 06 March 2022 - 02:58 AM, said:

out of how many games? well i played for about 4 hours at least lol, and its already happening on this thread to answer the second question no? i find it pretty laughable as it has happened before when i mentioned the same points about lights that i already had. I believe even after stating i would not continue the discussion i got a note from mods not to. Frankly you all just want an echo chamber and that is why i dont bother to post most of the time.
Oh and to answer the last question wich is my fav, why shoulnt lights be able to 1 vs 1 an assault? why then should assaults have low speed and low twist and giant hitboxes? shoulnt they also have low profiles? you see where this goes.. the real question is always.. why play anything but lights if they have all the advantages? whats that? a little extra armor and little extra weapons but you move like a slug and turn like you broke a hip? why?

Last season you played 92 matches in lights. K/D ration 0.94 and an average score of 242
This is not meant as shaming. I am just telling you that your perception is completely subjective because these statistics are far from an indicator how easy mode light mechs are. Just let that sink in: you died more than you killed. That is certainly NOT and indicator of a class being op.

Edited by Weeny Machine, 06 March 2022 - 03:39 AM.

[Curccu]

Eider, on 06 March 2022 - 02:58 AM, said:

Oh and to answer the last question wich is my fav, why shoulnt lights be able to 1 vs 1 an assault? why then should assaults have low speed and low twist and giant hitboxes? shoulnt they also have low profiles? you see where this goes.. the real question is always.. why play anything but lights if they have all the advantages? whats that? a little extra armor and little extra weapons but you move like a slug and turn like you broke a hip? why?

This is where you clearly do not understand the game.
Assaults are slow because they have shitloads of armor and firepower and most can remove light mechs leg/sidetorso/centertorso with 1 alpha and usually very far away.
having 3-4 times the armor isn't really little extra armor or having 60-90 pinpoint dmg alpha compared to light mechs 10-30 dmg pinpoints isn't little extra either. Those are massive differences. and not even talking about sustained DPS values (Yeah sure few MG lights can get very high sustained DPS but range is what it is so balanced IMHO)

I consider myself pretty good light pilot and not that good assault pilot in quickplay at least, Yet my IMO very successful last season with lights https://mwomercs.com...e=1&user=curccu is pretty damn far away from my last Tuesdays stalker gaming https://mwomercs.com...e=4&user=curccu and this was with way less effort than gaming lights.

Edited by Curccu, 06 March 2022 - 05:34 AM.

[ghost1e]

Seelenlos, on 05 March 2022 - 04:56 PM, said:

[redacted]


To the few posts giving some meaning:

- ThreeStooges - seems you know exactly what I mean - thx for sharing!




Thx for reasoning but that reasoning is also wrong.

You imply that lights would be nerfed, THEY SHOULD BE. THEY ARE LIGHTS IN THE ******* BATTLETECH-GROUND.

THEY HAVE SPECIFIC ROLES:
1. SCOUTING FIRST &lt;&gt; FIGHTING FIRST
2. SUPPORTING
3. DAMAGE DEALING WHEN THE OTHER CLASSES ARE AT EACH OTHER THROAT.

Else paperwork!

By the reasoning of that It would mean that an AC5 must give damage of 20, AC10 by 50 and AC20 By 100 vs any other Mechs in meelee, IF we imply that every ammo of a light has 1 damage point = 6000 Damages !!!!

THAT does not equals each other.
Specially when the game has been &quot;tweaked&quot; that it rarly registers a full AC or Laser blow on a light Mech!
For lights the MG is fully counted hit or miss!

It is not that they also have the penalty of graze!

You can not give a mech-class 2 bonuses at a time:
- Get-Hit-Bonus and
- Damage-Bonus
AND
at the same time give them Perks like Damage-Reduction Fall and Collision !!!

This is fully IMBA. And there is exactly NONE-Reason to excuse BESIDES you have the POWER TO CHOOSE THAT!

(Rreminds me of NATO and PUTIN - Both wrong, but both only have the power to choose, no one else! Rest have to swollow the choice!)

If you understand the point!

It is not fun! The risk must be for both sides in an MMO game!

Regards

One question: You do realize the tabletop game is absolutely not balanced at all though? I mean sure, please give my DWF the ability to 1v8 The point is, MWO isn’t meant to be an accurate representation of TT. It’s meant to be a BALANCED shooter set in the BT universe. If you fancy your TT rules so much, I’d recommend HBS BT or even MW5.

[Der Geisterbaer]

TheUltimateGhost, on 06 March 2022 - 05:40 AM, said:

If you fancy your TT rules so much, I’d recommend HBS BT or even MW5.

Before fancying those TT rules they'd first have to properly know them to begin with.

[Andrewlik]

TheUltimateGhost, on 06 March 2022 - 05:40 AM, said:

One question: You do realize the tabletop game is absolutely not balanced at all though? I mean sure, please give my DWF the ability to 1v8 The point is, MWO isn’t meant to be an accurate representation of TT. It’s meant to be a BALANCED shooter set in the BT universe. If you fancy your TT rules so much, I’d recommend HBS BT or even MW5.

Heck why even play HBS if you like TT so much? Just play Battletech Tabletop, it follows TT rules exactly

[Weeny Machine]

TheUltimateGhost, on 06 March 2022 - 05:40 AM, said:

One question: You do realize the tabletop game is absolutely not balanced at all though? I mean sure, please give my DWF the ability to 1v8 The point is, MWO isn’t meant to be an accurate representation of TT. It’s meant to be a BALANCED shooter set in the BT universe. If you fancy your TT rules so much, I’d recommend HBS BT or even MW5.

The irony is: a spider can kill a DW in TT. If the DW is really unlucky it can be even one-shotted...attack roll, double 1, double 6 for crits (= crits), 3 engine hits --> boom

[panzer1b]

The 12MG feesh isnt all that scary outside of end game scenarios where your mech is already about to drop (in which case any mech is likely to end you) or if you get jumped by one and were isolated from the team with a weapon combo that simply cant deal with lights (like say LERM/ERLL assault mech all alone, which is sorta the pilots fault for getting left behind).

Id much rather face 12 MGs then the much scarier 50 alpha strike laser variants which have almost as much DPS as a heavy owing to how efficient the ERuLs are heat wise (albeit only at point blank). Id even put most IS lights above the Mg feesh build with their near untwistable SPL/MPL builds and even the fairly common 5-6ML builds that fleas like to run which hit pretty hard when you are already engaged and cant really face the light yourself.

Now saying the Mg isnt fun to run or cant be lethal, its just that in most situations where the MGs are truly felt you may as well have been hit by any other weapon and suffered the safe fate, its really more psychological then effective. The ERUL+HSL feesh does 50 damage and can 1 shot a torso from behind INSTANTLY on the vast majority of mechs that dont stack all rear armor, the MGs will at best crit some of the guns/heatsinks before the target realizes and turns around, and are virtually useless head on unless targt is already opened up (in which case the 50 alpha would have removed whatever open component was there from any angle if it can see it much faster then een the 12MGs would).

The ONLY selling point of the MGs is heat free DPS, but that DPS is hard to use (you need to stare at short range for at least a few seconds to do squat, making you easy pickings for any teammates nearby), and i just cant justify such a situational build when i can run many better builds based on lasers. Maybee if lasers got nerfed again id reconsider, but as it stands you are almost always better running pure energy on a light mech and just accepting the fact that you cant circle an enemy indefenetely due to heat capacity (not that circleing is even a very good strategy)...

[FLG 01]

Der Geisterbaer, on 06 March 2022 - 06:03 AM, said:

Before fancying those TT rules they'd first have to properly know them to begin with.

True.

In a second step it might be worth exploring that TT rules are merely an abstraction of Mech combat and that the 'lore' - which people claim to hold dear, but rarely know - is a different animal again.

In the lore, most people who complain about lights here would not be allowed to pilot an assault in the first place, because those are extremely rare and are not handed to beginners.
In the lore, many light Mechs are dedicated Mech-killer units, not scouts or support.
In the lore, there are experienced light pilots like Daniel Allard who never switch to heavier models, and still rule the battlefield.
And so on...

So yeah: TT, lore, and the pvp shooter MWO are three very different things.

And the op knows none of them.

[martian]

Eider, on 06 March 2022 - 02:58 AM, said:

why then should assaults have low speed and low twist and giant hitboxes? shoulnt they also have low profiles? you see where this goes..
the real question is always.. why play anything but lights if they have all the advantages? whats that? a little extra armor and little extra weapons but you move like a slug and turn like you broke a hip? why?

Light 'Mechs having all the advantages? Let us check it:

1) Assault 'Mechs having a little extra armor?
The Piranha has 100+ armor, while the Daishi has 600+ armor. The difference is 500 points of armor. You call it "a little extra"?

2) Assault 'Mechs having a little extra weapons?
The Piranha carries 6.5 tons of weapons and ammunition. The effective range of the Piranha's loadout is 130 metres.
The Daishi has 50 tons of pod space. If armed with Clan Gauss Rifles, Clan ER PPCs or Clan ER Large lasers, the effective range is 800 metres.
You call it "a little extra"?"

I would say that both light 'Mechs and Assault 'Mechs have their place in MechWarrior Online.

[Eider]

martian, on 06 March 2022 - 09:23 AM, said:

Light 'Mechs having all the advantages? Let us check it:

1) Assault 'Mechs having a little extra armor?
The Piranha has 100+ armor, while the Daishi has 600+ armor. The difference is 500 points of armor. You call it "a little extra"?

2) Assault 'Mechs having a little extra weapons?
The Piranha carries 6.5 tons of weapons and ammunition. The effective range of the Piranha's loadout is 130 metres.
The Daishi has 50 tons of pod space. If armed with Clan Gauss Rifles, Clan ER PPCs or Clan ER Large lasers, the effective range is 800 metres.
You call it "a little extra"?"

I would say that both light 'Mechs and Assault 'Mechs have their place in MechWarrior Online.

1. What is the damage on the piranha again? oh right.. and again hitreg/lag speed etc all make damage on said target rather mundane right?
2.What is the alpha again on said light? hmm not an advantage you say? did you list the other advantages? such as speed and ducking around things? no? of course not.

Now lets talk how it actually works son. What is harder? To duck and run out of a bad situation? or having to absorb massive alphas because you are moving SLOOOOOW. hmm? oh right the slow thing because you actually have to think and plan. This is why assaults are harder to use than lights, the only thing a light has to do in order to be 'guud' is keep moving to take advantage of what i dub speed armor.

Oh and let me add i have played since alpha and people still dont get this simple concept about why lights are such an issue. You could break the system when they could run 178 kph and had to cap it down to around 150.. there is a reason for that. Of course game has a ton of other issues the one i dont get is simple physics. How is a 20 ton mech stopping 100 ton mech from moving and taking no damage from hugging the legs? why is there not even melee? Yea.. plenty of advantages including a weird world where physics dont exist in order to make it easier for lights. When fixes to this were implemented everyone cried and they changed it back, so much for that light skill most supposedly have.

Edited by Eider, 06 March 2022 - 10:49 PM.

[Eider]

Fresh flea, already got 2 kills on it first time.. soooo hard.. lights take godly skill i tells ya! lol
Dont worry last post on this nonsense.

[martian]

Eider, on 06 March 2022 - 10:42 PM, said:

1. What is the damage on the piranha again? oh right.. and again hitreg/lag speed etc all make damage on said target rather mundane right?
2.What is the alpha again on said light? hmm not an advantage you say? did you list the other advantages? such as speed and ducking around things? no? of course not.

It was you who mentioned "a little extra armor and little extra weapons".

I merely added some numbers to your claims that Assault 'Mechs have "a little extra armor" and "a little extra" firepower.

Eider, on 06 March 2022 - 10:42 PM, said:

Now lets talk how it actually works son. What is harder? To duck and run out of a bad situation? or having to absorb massive alphas because you are moving SLOOOOOW. hmm?

Do you realize that when a light 'Mech eats some massive alpha in a bad situation, it is usually crippled or killed? On the other hand, the Daishi can eat a massive enemy alpha in a bad situation and still keep fighting.

For a light 'Mech pilot, his first mistake can be often his last mistake.

Eider, on 06 March 2022 - 10:42 PM, said:

oh right the slow thing because you actually have to think and plan. This is why assaults are harder to use than lights, the only thing a light has to do in order to be 'guud' is keep moving to take advantage of what i dub speed armor.

Light 'Mech pilots, who do not think and plan, often end the game either dead or with a pitiful damage.

Eider, on 06 March 2022 - 10:42 PM, said:

Oh and let me add i have played since alpha and people still dont get this simple concept about why lights are such an issue.

If the light 'Mechs are so OP, easy to use, almost invulnerable and boasting such firepower, why is not the Quick Play queue full of light 'Mechs?

Eider, on 06 March 2022 - 10:42 PM, said:

You could break the system when they could run 178 kph and had to cap it down to around 150.. there is a reason for that. Of course game has a ton of other issues the one i dont get is simple physics. How is a 20 ton mech stopping 100 ton mech from moving and taking no damage from hugging the legs? why is there not even melee? Yea.. plenty of advantages including a weird world where physics dont exist in order to make it easier for lights. When fixes to this were implemented everyone cried and they changed it back, so much for that light skill most supposedly have.

MechWarrior Online is neither the real physics simulator nor the tabletop BattleTech simulator.

Russ Bullock's decisions and PGI's resources have shaped the MWO gameplay, especially with the intent to make all weight classes and all 'Mechs as viable as possible.

[Curccu]

Eider, on 07 March 2022 - 12:03 AM, said:

Fresh flea, already got 2 kills on it first time.. soooo hard.. lights take godly skill i tells ya! lol
Dont worry last post on this nonsense.

I'm not sure why do you have problem having Win/Loss and Kill/Death ratio of even 1 with these godly light mechs, it should be stupidly easy...