17 replies to this topic

[Jeff on a Buffalo]

I think I heard from a recent NGNG vid that PGI were looking for FW proposals, so I thought to start a thread on that for hopefully some discussion. I wrote this up while waiting for a FW match.

Proposal Name: “One-Bucket”

Theme:
- Intent is to keep the changes minimal (assuming minimal resources available to make changes to this game mode), keep what I think works within this game mode with an eye towards maximizing the number of matches within a small player-base.

What to keep the same:
- 4 mechs in a drop deck (DD)
- Siege (attack and defend) and QP (Skirmish, Assault, Domination, Conquest) with the QP type match changing every 8 hours with the option of going pure Siege for a 8 hour period every once in a while or for special events.
- You still have the option to join a Loyalist Faction (IS or Clan). One can still work towards gaining points for the existing various rewards that already exist in the game for c-bills, cockpit items, etc.
- Depending on what Loyalist side you pick (IS/Clans), you can only select mechs based off of that.
- When a match starts you are shown what map/game-mode it is and you can alter the mechs in your drop deck accordingly.
- Groups are prioritized by match-maker over that of solo players.

What to change:
- Instead of two separate buckets between FW attack and defence, there is one bucket of all people dropping in FW. Once matchmaker can make a match of two teams of 12 from within that single bucket, a match will occur. The attacker and defender is randomized.
- “Select Faction” option in FW is changed to “Mercenary”. Instead of the existing two selections one can make from within “Select Faction”, you now solely select to be a generic mercenary
- “Mercenary” can pick mechs from both IS and Clans, and has a drop deck max weight limit the same as Clans (255).
- You gain Faction Reputation with Mercenary by playing as a Mercenary (ok, no real change there).

Advantages:
- More likely to get a quicker match in FW within this smaller player-base.
- What I feel is working somewhat within FW is left the same for the most part.
- If one is a Loyalist, one can continue to be one and work towards the various existing rewards.

Disadvantages:
- Game immersion is dropped somewhat by having mixed teams of clans/IS mechs. Those looking for immersion can think of it as mercenaries joining their side for the fight?
- The whole “fighting to gain control of the planet” is fully dropped. I feel at this stage that the importance of that aspect of FW is now insignificant.
- Some people prefer doing solely attack or solely defend in FW. They will now have to be a bit more flexible on the game mode they play withing FW.

Possible variations/additions to this proposal:
- Cap team size to either 4 mechs like in QP, or maybe up it to 6 or 8 mechs. PRO: Match Maker should be able to make a match easier with more teams to mix and match with and it might lead to better balance in the matches. CON: Loose the aspect of an organized 12 man team dropping together in the game.
- Have equal maximum weight limit in the drop decks between IS/Clans. TBH I do not see this as a significant issue within this game mode but there are people that want that.
- Drop a portion of the QP maps associated with FW each month so that the ratio of Siege to QP match-ups is closer to 50/50. The Siege match-ups is what makes this game mode special but having some QP type matches does add some variety.

Final Thoughts:
- So in essence, turn FW into something more similar to the existing QP except for the fact that within FW you have 4 mechs to drop with, have larger possible group sizes, have more nuanced game modes (Siege attack/defence), and that you can work towards getting rewards as you complete more matches in FW.

[Sawk]

WOW that is way to long, just ask for the old SCOUTING missions : )

SAWK PS i think there with the 8 VS 8 missions, there going there : )

[Jeff on a Buffalo]

Sorry Sawk, I tried to succinct.

[Kotis77]

Basic PGI bullsh1t, keep lying to playerbase that they are doing something.

If wanna make FP better need first random back to siege and finally stop lying about matchmaker and build one.

After that this utopia stuff maybe can happen

Edited by Kotis77, 25 March 2022 - 06:14 AM.

[Hobbles v]

The same thing but even simpler would keep the queue and signups the same. Just when seige drops happen either side can end up as attacker/defender randomly. That or bring back counter-attack drops for the defending side.

This keeps all the advantages you mentioned and eliminates 2 of the disadvantages you list.

And the always on defense stackers can get @#$%ed by it. Everyone wins.

Edited by Hobbles v, 25 March 2022 - 07:47 AM.

[IronWolfPack64]

Here’s what we need.
1: Attacker defend need to be random.
2: Quickplay modes should be maxed out at 20% drop rate at any time compared to siege.
3: Scouting must be brought back in some form. 4v4 lights vs mediums (I think conquest should be changed to this just less tickets than QP)
4: conquest should be eliminated from the invasion game mode. It’s legit just skirmish now, we need to stop pretending it’s not. (For those who say 48 never die. 44-21 stomps where the tickets play No roll doesn’t count. If you can still drop 12 assaults wave one and two and win easy…… its just skirmish)
5: finally some kind of minor events should take place once a month, it could be as small as being able to win a mech bay or some cbills or cockpit items once a month or as big as massive event every 3-4 months with a free mech. Just something basic like what they’ve been doing recently.

This is what I think should be different overall. Faction play was great many years ago and every change they have made has gradually degraded it (not all have been bad per say, just overall the changes have not worked. So I think the best way to fix faction plays problems is to merely reverse some of the changes to a point and see how it plays out.

[IronWolfPack64]

Jeff on a Buffalo, on 24 March 2022 - 01:17 PM, said:

I think I heard from a recent NGNG vid that PGI were looking for FW proposals, so I thought to start a thread on that for hopefully some discussion. I wrote this up while waiting for a FW match.

Proposal Name: “One-Bucket”

Theme:
- Intent is to keep the changes minimal (assuming minimal resources available to make changes to this game mode), keep what I think works within this game mode with an eye towards maximizing the number of matches within a small player-base.

What to keep the same:
- 4 mechs in a drop deck (DD)
- Siege (attack and defend) and QP (Skirmish, Assault, Domination, Conquest) with the QP type match changing every 8 hours with the option of going pure Siege for a 8 hour period every once in a while or for special events.
- You still have the option to join a Loyalist Faction (IS or Clan). One can still work towards gaining points for the existing various rewards that already exist in the game for c-bills, cockpit items, etc.
- Depending on what Loyalist side you pick (IS/Clans), you can only select mechs based off of that.
- When a match starts you are shown what map/game-mode it is and you can alter the mechs in your drop deck accordingly.
- Groups are prioritized by match-maker over that of solo players.

What to change:
- Instead of two separate buckets between FW attack and defence, there is one bucket of all people dropping in FW. Once matchmaker can make a match of two teams of 12 from within that single bucket, a match will occur. The attacker and defender is randomized.
- “Select Faction” option in FW is changed to “Mercenary”. Instead of the existing two selections one can make from within “Select Faction”, you now solely select to be a generic mercenary
- “Mercenary” can pick mechs from both IS and Clans, and has a drop deck max weight limit the same as Clans (255).
- You gain Faction Reputation with Mercenary by playing as a Mercenary (ok, no real change there).

Advantages:
- More likely to get a quicker match in FW within this smaller player-base.
- What I feel is working somewhat within FW is left the same for the most part.
- If one is a Loyalist, one can continue to be one and work towards the various existing rewards.

Disadvantages:
- Game immersion is dropped somewhat by having mixed teams of clans/IS mechs. Those looking for immersion can think of it as mercenaries joining their side for the fight?
- The whole “fighting to gain control of the planet” is fully dropped. I feel at this stage that the importance of that aspect of FW is now insignificant.
- Some people prefer doing solely attack or solely defend in FW. They will now have to be a bit more flexible on the game mode they play withing FW.

Possible variations/additions to this proposal:
- Cap team size to either 4 mechs like in QP, or maybe up it to 6 or 8 mechs. PRO: Match Maker should be able to make a match easier with more teams to mix and match with and it might lead to better balance in the matches. CON: Loose the aspect of an organized 12 man team dropping together in the game.
- Have equal maximum weight limit in the drop decks between IS/Clans. TBH I do not see this as a significant issue within this game mode but there are people that want that.
- Drop a portion of the QP maps associated with FW each month so that the ratio of Siege to QP match-ups is closer to 50/50. The Siege match-ups is what makes this game mode special but having some QP type matches does add some variety.

Final Thoughts:
- So in essence, turn FW into something more similar to the existing QP except for the fact that within FW you have 4 mechs to drop with, have larger possible group sizes, have more nuanced game modes (Siege attack/defence), and that you can work towards getting rewards as you complete more matches in FW.

The one thing in this you can’t change ever is allowing anyone to drop IS and Clan mechs in the same deck as it would completely imbalance the game mode and remove the best part which is how different it is from quick play and how tactics work differently for different sides (maybe…..maybe they could get away with it if merc drop decks were like only 245 weight) but it would be honestly terrible and drive so many people away from the mode. Just because something “is realistic” doesn’t mean it’s a good idea and doing that honestly is a terrible idea. You should only be able to drop IS mechs for IS and Clan mechs for Clan. Mix and match would kill faction play forever.

Edited by IronWolfPack64, 25 March 2022 - 08:30 AM.

[LordNothing]

4 small changes:

if there are 2 or more teams on one side, and insufficient players on the other, spawn an is vs is or clan vs clan match.

use 8v8 or less at off-peak hours.

randomize attack/defend.

battle of tukayyid should be a quarterly thing.

i would do nothing more than that. do not mess with the mm, it is pointless. do not do sweeping changes, it will anger those who still play.

Edited by LordNothing, 27 March 2022 - 02:35 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

This merc only mode would break/remove the faction reward system, which I feel is a bad direction.
Also, it would require 2+ ready drop decks because you wont know what side and what map you're playing.

[Jeff on a Buffalo]

feeWAIVER, on 27 March 2022 - 10:22 AM, said:

This merc only mode would break/remove the faction reward system, which I feel is a bad direction.
Also, it would require 2+ ready drop decks because you wont know what side and what map you're playing.

Wrt the faction reward system, the proposal I provided was to leave it as is for the most part.
Wrt the need to have 2 X ready drop decks, you will still have the first map/game-mode screen with the timer that allows one to change one's drop deck. That should not be an issue I would think.

[feeWAIVER]

Jeff on a Buffalo, on 27 March 2022 - 11:34 AM, said:

Wrt the faction reward system, the proposal I provided was to leave it as is for the most part.
Wrt the need to have 2 X ready drop decks, you will still have the first map/game-mode screen with the timer that allows one to change one's drop deck. That should not be an issue I would think.

The reward system, like being a Jade Falcon Loyalist, or Kurita Loyalist.. those rewards.
And I have 4 drop decks, and even then, you have like 60 seconds to make changes, and the interface kinda sucks for reading what's loaded out in what.. It's a hassle.


All FP really needs is a big incentive to play it over Quickplay.
And map updates would help.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 27 March 2022 - 07:17 PM.

[Ignatius Audene]

Biggest + would be if there are less invisible walls. This is rly bad on fp maps. So many places where entire buildings pop out...

[Sjorpha]

I'm completely against mixing clan and IS mechs on the same side, the tactical distinction that comes with IS vs Clan is the best part of FW in my opinion.

I'm not sure there is that much point to minor changes, I think the main problem with FW is that the incentive to create big units was removed when PGI removed the whole macro game aspect of it.

It was the big units and faction hubs that kept the population high back then, and they were motivated by the possibility of controlling where to attack, taking over territory, tagging planets, gaining MC and so forth. Now that there is no way to affect the overall picture the map might as well not exist, and there is zero incentive to make big units or organise as a faction. So that's what would interest me, but it's probably too late for that now.

As an immediate investment I think create som new siege maps, make it only or mostly siege, and randomise attack/defend so that people stop stacking up on the defending side would have the highest payoff per dollar.

Edited by Sjorpha, 28 March 2022 - 10:57 AM.

[Jeff on a Buffalo]

feeWAIVER, on 27 March 2022 - 07:10 PM, said:

The reward system, like being a Jade Falcon Loyalist, or Kurita Loyalist.. those rewards.
And I have 4 drop decks, and even then, you have like 60 seconds to make changes, and the interface kinda sucks for reading what's loaded out in what.. It's a hassle.
All FP really needs is a big incentive to play it over Quickplay.
And map updates would help.

FeeWAIVER, The proposal I wrote was to leave the reward system intact as is. Apologies for not writing that more clearly. I have four drop decks as well, it seems to be enough for me and the ability to make small changes when the map/game-mode is indicated works well enough for me.

Reading through the rest of the comments, it seems to be a common thing that people would like for the attack/defence side to be randomized for each match.

Cheers, thanks to replying on this.

Edited by Jeff on a Buffalo, 28 March 2022 - 02:14 PM.

[XPhantasmaX]

Queue times for FP could use an improvement. I cant tell you how many times I've been sitting in queue for 10, 20, 30 mins? AN HOUR?! Just to land a FP game? I'd like to rack up some loyalty pts for those rank up rewards, but it ain't happening if there's no game.

Consider this:

Make the size of the matchups dynamic. By that I mean if you are in queue you could potentially have the following number of players in a match depending on how many are currently in queue.

Low population queue: 4v4
Medium population queue: 8v8
large population queue: 12v12

Map selection/size can vary based on size of the matchup.

That way even if there is downtime you can still have a better shot on getting a least 1-2 FP matches going within a half an hour, rather than waiting for hours for ONE.

PGI was on to something when they experimented with 8v8 matches that other weekend.

[Duke Falcon]

What many said earlier: If no team balance, spawn IS vs IS or Clan vs Clan (+ randomise siege\attack and increase their probability a bit).
FP-based events what may trigger attention and\or more possible players for FP.
Anything to deal with the usually 20+ mins queue waiting to reduce to a more humane level...
Re-check and optomise the maps as some have issues (city maps are legendarily badly optimised, need to do something with them ASAP both in FP and QP)...

[Deadeye254]

I think we should do a combination of the 1st CW and when they went to the bucket system (whichever version that was) bring back planet tagging and choosing were and who we attack but modify it where its the bucket que do to low population. For instance Loyalist vote who they are attacking that phase what ever faction you are aligned with is what your win or loose point will count for in the match this is not ideal but a good compromise for low population. And who knows bring back planet tagging by units and the ability too choose what we are attacking and population will increase. Create seasons were your rank with faction (for that season) will have to be grind out and a reward at end of season for maxxing your rank with your faction that can only be obtained through FP

[Bowelhacker]

BRING BACK SCOUTING.