17 replies to this topic

[Neutron IX]

I've been a dedicated Table Top player, and lover of all things BattleTech/MechWarrior since the early 90s, and the upcoming addition of the Crusader to MWO and Hatchetman (hopefully ALSO Crusader, *fingers crossed*) to MW5 has me all sorts of excited.

So I'm curious, of the remaining "Classic TRO: 3025" mechs that have yet to make an appearance, what mechs would you be interested in seeing? Links are for Sarna.net info on each one, if you aren't familiar with them.

LIGHT:
- Wasp
- Stinger
- Valkyrie
- Ostscout

MEDIUM:
- Clint
- Hermes II
- Whitworth
- Hatchetman (Requires game mechanic update to include in MWO. Coming soon to MW5.)
- Scorpion (Requires game mechanic update to include in MWO.)

HEAVY:
- Ostroc
- Ostsol

ASSAULT:
- Goliath (Requires game mechanic update to include in MWO.)

For my part, I'd love to see the Wasp, and Stinger, followed by the Valkyrie as my top priorities, but real talk, I'd be stoked for any of them.

The Hatchetman would require the addition of melee attacks in MWO, which I'm sort of on the fence about, personally, and the Scorpion and Goliath are "Quad" mechs (4-legged) which would likely require some game changes to incorporate, so those seem likely to be the most difficult to add.

What do you think?

[Glaive-]

Overall I'd be very happy to see these mechs in MWO, and later in MW5!

I don't think quads are every going to happen, sadly (although maybe not out of the question for MW5?)
Melee I'm not sure about, but I'd be glad to see it in MWO

[pattonesque]

Wasp and Stinger would be fun, but I think would probably need massive quirks as they're a bit hardpoint starved IIRC

[ScrapIron Prime]

The only problem with some of these mechs is functional similarity. Wasp and Stinger are both 20 ton jumpers with primary laser armament and secondary non-energy weapons. You might have to release them as a single pack, just calling half the variants a Wasp and the other half a Stinger.

Similarly, while Clint and Hermes are very different mechs lore-wise, they are functionally identical. 40 tonners, 240 rated engine, AC/5 and 2 energy weapons as armament... one just has jump jets whereas the other has more armor instead. I'm not sure you could sell both mechs.

and the ostscout... yeah... nobody's gonna play an Ostscout. I'd much rather see a Mongoose.

[Neutron IX]

ScrapIron Prime, on 31 March 2022 - 12:20 PM, said:

The only problem with some of these mechs is functional similarity. Wasp and Stinger are both 20 ton jumpers with primary laser armament and secondary non-energy weapons. You might have to release them as a single pack, just calling half the variants a Wasp and the other half a Stinger.

Similarly, while Clint and Hermes are very different mechs lore-wise, they are functionally identical. 40 tonners, 240 rated engine, AC/5 and 2 energy weapons as armament... one just has jump jets whereas the other has more armor instead. I'm not sure you could sell both mechs.

and the ostscout... yeah... nobody's gonna play an Ostscout. I'd much rather see a Mongoose.

100% Ostscout would be my least wished for "Ost" mech. lol

Least wished for mech of the whole bunch, point of fact.

[1453 R]

Wasp/Stinger: These two are basically the same interchangeable 'Mech, down to being based on the same Robotech/Macross machine (the original Veritech fighter's humanoid mode) in different pilot's personal configurations. They're both slow, anemically armed, and their only real claim to fame over the Locust and Flea already available in the weight bracket is jump capability. Twenty-tonners trading speed for hops is a nonstarter in MWO, especially as twenty-tonners don't really have the weight for more than one or two jump jets anyways if they'd also like, y'know...guns. The 'Mechs are useful* in a BT tabletop game where logistics are a serious concern and combined arms is a reality. Low-cost militia units with low groundspeed but high mobility are valuable there in their niche, but these two machines simply have no place in MWO.

Valkyrie: The Valkyrie has actually been considered for inclusion in MWO before. Mark Nicholson has confirmed that it came up in discussions, but all of the Valkyrie's canonical variants are effectively identical by MWO standards. Very hard to make distinctive, MWO-unique loadouts for the 'Mech. It's also a slow Spheroid light 'Mech with a missile-centric armament, which is a nonstarter in MWO matches. The Valkyrie is a decent light fire support unit for cash-strapped commands that can't afford better, but it also has no real place in MWO. Sadly, as I always enjoyed using them in my play-pretend games as a kid.

Ostscout: The Ostscout is possibly the worst 'Mech Piranha could include in MWO. It's almost entirely unarmed, has no reasonable combat variants, and its entire function and job does not exist in MWO. The Ostscout is an advance reconnaissance and surveyor machine, intended to gather intelligence and map the battleground. A task completely unneeded in MWO, and a 'Mech that has absolutely no place in a video game of any sort. The Ostscout shouldn't even be in the field at the same time as combat units - this is a 'Mech a commander sends out days or weeks ahead of the fight to map the field before stuffing back in the DropShip to avoid any risk of damaging its nigh-priceless electronics.

Clint: The Clint is such a weird little thing. Forty-tonners are a weird weight bracket that never seems to work right in MWO, and the interesting variants of the design all require tech MWO doiesn't have. Elsewise it's a reasonable machine in tabletop, but suffers from the Samey Variant problem of the Valkyrie and also being a generalist in a game that tends to penalize generalists. Lighter 'Mechs do well in MWO when they can carry a plethora of lightweight weapons; the Clint's focus on a single medium autocannon doesn't do it any favors.

Hermes II: The Hermes II is basically the exact same 'Mech as the Clint. An AC/5 backed by two light energy weapons at forty tons going ninety-seven klicks. It, at least, has a wider diversity of within-reach-for-MWO variants than the Clint, though none of them strike me as particularly fantastic judging by the Sarna article. Elsewise it's a spindly forty-tonner with a couple of variants that might have enough hardpoints, but it'd be doing the same job as the Assassin and the Vulcan, both of which already performed poorly as 'Mech packs. Why repeat the failure?

Whitworthless: I feel like I should have to explain how terrible the Withworthless is, in MWO or anywhere else. A 4/6 forty-tonner with poor armor (I think), poor ammo reserves, and poor mobility. This is what you buy in a Succession Wars tabletop game if you can't afford a Trebuchet, because the Trebuchet is strictly superior in absolutely everything but cost. And a Trenchbucket doesn't cost that much more than a Whitworthless. This would probably be the poorest-performing Inner Sphere pack Piranha could produce, there's a reason it hasn't been seen in a PC game since MW2:Mercs.

Hatchetman: MWO is never getting melee. Give up the dream, people.

Scorpion: Russ Bullock has long since confirmed quads are not happening in MWO. Again - give up the dream.

Ostroc: the Ostroc might actually be semi-successful as a MWO design. A compact profile mated to a generally energy-centric armament with reasonable torso mounts makes for something that wouldn't be Whitworthless. Sixty tons is generally a sketchy weight point though, and this one suffers from Samey Variant Disease again with very little to distinguish its various models from each other. Enough -P variants and some elbow grease could make this semi-viable, though I doubt it has enough oomph to really push the limit on New 'Mech Pack Sales. Still. Almost wish it had been introduced years ago, before the Clan drop. This would've been a terror in its day if it had dropped instead of the Dragon, for example.

Ostsol: ...basically the Ostroc except with no ammunition-based weapons in most of its variants. A lighter, faster, jump-jetless Grasshopper from what I'm seeing. Again, would've been a terror seven or eight years ago, would be of only mild interest these days. Heh. Piranha could theoretically lump these two together into a single chassis, call it the Ostsock, and take variants from each to comprise a single, more saleable design. And also to see how many 'Mech Dad grognards shriek at the top of their lungs over them being Very Separate 'Mechs despite the Ostol, lore-wise, literally being just a laser-centric Ostroc.

Goliath: Again. No quads. Give up the dream.

If I hadda pick? I'd go for the Ostsock, but I don't think it's the way to go. Other machines introduced past 3025 have a lot more going for them, and the 'Mech Dads already got their treat in the Crusader. In the vanishingly unlikely event we get a second new 'Mech past the Crusader, I would severely hope it would be something more interesting than a retrotech also-ran like basically everything left in the 3025 TRO.

[FLG 01]

pattonesque, on 31 March 2022 - 12:17 PM, said:

Wasp and Stinger would be fun, but I think would probably need massive quirks as they're a bit hardpoint starved IIRC

The Wasp -1W and -3W come with six energy hardpoints (in useful locations, too), and other Wasp variants come with four (-1D, -1S); I feel that is the minimum number needed. The -3S has ECM and three energy hardpoints, and may be useful depending on its quirks.

Not spectacular, but workable since we are talking about jump capable 20t Mechs, which in and of itself is significant because we lack those. It will need quirks; so does every IS Mech.

I could really see the Wasp work.

Edited by FLG 01, 31 March 2022 - 12:54 PM.

[Kanil]

1453 R, on 31 March 2022 - 12:31 PM, said:

Whitworthless: I feel like I should have to explain how terrible the Withworthless is, in MWO or anywhere else. A 4/6 forty-tonner with poor armor (I think), poor ammo reserves, and poor mobility. This is what you buy in a Succession Wars tabletop game if you can't afford a Trebuchet, because the Trebuchet is strictly superior in absolutely everything but cost.

I wouldn't argue for it's inclusion in MWO -- the Assassin exists. But I think you're underrating it in TT. It's got more armor than the Trebuchet you compare it to, same ammo, jumpjets, and doesn't have the suicide LT, all for 200 BV less. Trebbie's got LRM-15s which are great and an extra point of move in it's favor, but that's not "strictly superior in absolutely everything". It's not optimal, but there's a lot worse crap you could be stuck with, honestly.

I do agree that none of these 'mechs really ought to be in MWO though. That said, looking at the Hatchetman makes me think PGI might be making these 'mechs for MW5 and just selling them in MWO since they're already made and at least a couple people will buy them.

Edited by Kanil, 31 March 2022 - 12:58 PM.

[pattonesque]

FLG 01, on 31 March 2022 - 12:43 PM, said:

The Wasp -1W and -3W come with six energy hardpoints (in useful locations, too), and other Wasp variants come with four (-1D, -1S); I feel that is the minimum number needed. The -3S has ECM and three energy hardpoints, and may be useful depending on its quirks.

Not spectacular, but workable since we are talking about jump capable 20t Mechs, which in and of itself is significant because we lack those. It will need quirks; so does every IS Mech.

I could really see the Wasp work.

yeah I agree, a 20-tonner with JJs (and probably humongous JJ quirks so you could use the tonnage) would be a new wrinkle

Edited by pattonesque, 31 March 2022 - 12:59 PM.

[Neutron IX]

Kanil, on 31 March 2022 - 12:58 PM, said:

I wouldn't argue for it's inclusion in MWO -- the Assassin exists. But I think you're underrating it in TT. It's got more armor than the Trebuchet you compare it to, same ammo, jumpjets, and doesn't have the suicide LT, all for 200 BV less. Trebbie's got LRM-15s which are great and an extra point of move in it's favor, but that's not "strictly superior in absolutely everything". It's not optimal, but there's a lot worse crap you could be stuck with, honestly.

I do agree that none of these 'mechs really ought to be in MWO though. That said, looking at the Hatchetman makes me think PGI might be making these 'mechs for MW5 and just selling them in MWO since they're already made and at least a couple people will buy them.

And actually, if I'm honest, I'd really want to see them in MW5 more than MWO. Like, I love Wasps, Stingers, and Valkyries, but the MAIN reason I'd want to see them developed would be for MW5, though I think they do have some small potential for MWO in certain configurations.

For MWO, the Ostsol and Ostroc make more sense to me than most of the others, or maybe some combination of the 40 tonners.

But the MW5 player in me wants them all.

[EPJ]

Neutron IX, on 31 March 2022 - 11:52 AM, said:

LIGHT:
- Wasp
- Stinger
- Valkyrie
- Ostscout

What do you think?

If i had to pick just one I would want the Stinger, why? It just looks awesome.

[PocketYoda]

After reading the rogue Academy trilogy i'm very interested in those Ostroc's and Ostsol's.

[Neutron IX]

Coincidentally, was watching Phil's "Crusader Reaction" stream on NGNGTV Twitch earlier tonight, and Daeron popped in and specifically mentioned that his personal preference would be to finish putting all the Unseen mechs into the game if he could, since those are his favorites too.

Love it when you catch how much love and respect Devs have for the source material like that!

[FLG 01]

Neutron IX, on 31 March 2022 - 02:46 PM, said:

But the MW5 player in me wants them all.

Sure.
My first Mech-love was the Valkyrie. I would buy it without hesitation.

But it would not be a good Mech in MWO, at best somewhat like the Panther. ...which is not high praise.

Clint and Hermes can be replicated pretty good already, and it is not particularly attractive to do so. The OSTs would be nice but nothing noteworthy in game. Stinger does not have enough hardpoints; even with massive inflation it is going to be tough.

So as far as viable TRO:3025 units go, it is the Wasp. Unfortunately, that is a 20t Mech and people don't like paying full price for lights. I hate it but that's the way it is.

I am afraid we are done with TRO:3025. That is not necessarily a bad thing, though. The BattleTech-universe is rich and full of Mechs.

[pattonesque]

I think to make mechs like the Wasp or Stinger or Valkyrie viable, you'd have to make them *weird*. Like, the Valk gets a rapid-fire gigabuffed LRM10 with higher missile health and shorter minimum range. Stuff like that.

[Bowelhacker]

Nah, none of these. Just give us a Guillotine....

[Neutron IX]

Bowelhacker, on 01 April 2022 - 03:47 PM, said:

Nah, none of these. Just give us a Guillotine....

That's a whole new poll! Because Friendo, I am HERE for ALL the TRO: 2750 Mechs too!

Edited by Neutron IX, 01 April 2022 - 05:42 PM.

[Armchair General]

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