161 replies to this topic

[Neutron IX]

So due to several life things happening, I haven't played at all in months, and before that it was rarely.

Past couple days though, finally been getting a decent stretch of games in, and I have...questions.

Is it just me, or does the game seem dominated by sniping right now, especially on the new map? I've been in match after match with my brawler builds, and am routinely losing large portions of my armor, if not my mech itself to opponents I can't even see, and it feels like moving to cover against one, just opens you up to another one at a different angle. All the while it's impossible to return fire because I can't even see the attacker, and even if I could, I have an LB20 and SRMs or something.

I'm finding my PSR absolutely tanking (which I don't care a ton about) and actual wins feel few and far between (which is a bigger bummer).

Is this playstyle the new reality? Am I best to just shrug and say "So be it" and set all my mechs up with ERLL and stuff? I've never been great at sniping, and don't find it much fun to begin with, but is that really where all this is headed? Why are weapon ranges so damn ridiculous right now? Or at least, why does it feel that way?

Because so far, it's not real fun.

I just want to understand the end-game goal, because initially I thought the idea was to promote a diversity of builds as viable, and the way it seems at the moment is it's all snipe, snipe, snipe.

So yeah, help me out here. Is this something people are honestly finding to be fun? And if so, how do I find that fun, and enjoy it myself.

I really want to play my new Crusader when it comes out.

Edited by Neutron IX, 31 March 2022 - 02:35 PM.

[LordNothing]

its all the new maps, they are large and have good sniper positions.

i think fiddling with the max range of 20 class autocannons can help make them more useful in a pro sniper environment. say make them perform like an ac10 at ac10 ranges. that way you can do better in midrange combat. not going to do it for snipers though. you usually have 2 options, use sniper weapons, or use cover to get close and use your superior heat efficiency as ranged mechs make terrible brawlers.

Edited by LordNothing, 31 March 2022 - 02:49 PM.

[pattonesque]

Caustic and Emerald are, I think, too sniper-friendly. But for the most part sniper weapons have been brought up to viability, and while they're perfectly counterable if you want the game to actually feature them as a legit weapon that means sometimes you're gonna get owned by blue lasers -- just like sometimes you'll get owned by dakkavomit or massed SRMs or red lasers.

I do get the frustration. Blue lasers feel worse because if you're caught out by them, you can't fight back effectively. but by the same token, if I run up on a blue laser SNV or the like and I'm in an SRM bomber ACW, he's gonna have a very bad time.

[Neutron IX]

LordNothing, on 31 March 2022 - 02:45 PM, said:

its all the new maps, they are large and have good sniper positions.

So I'm not imagining it? It's just "the big thing" right now?

Like, as I mentioned, I'm not much of a Sniper, so when I see the new map pop up, I legitimately feel a groan emit from my soul.

Was asking a couple of T1 friends of mine on Discord about it, and they both said they quit playing because they found what they called the current "Snipe Meta" frustrating and boring. Which made me sad, because they're good players and friends.

I didn't quite believe them how bad it was but today has been a headache that just seems to confirm their things. I'm determined to adjust somehow, without pretending I can become a Sniper myself (not steady enough on the mouse I'm afraid, and poorer vision than I'd like).

Just hoping that there's light on the horizon and that the meta will shift sooner rather than later maybe. lol

[Neutron IX]

pattonesque, on 31 March 2022 - 02:52 PM, said:

Caustic and Emerald are, I think, too sniper-friendly. But for the most part sniper weapons have been brought up to viability, and while they're perfectly counterable if you want the game to actually feature them as a legit weapon that means sometimes you're gonna get owned by blue lasers -- just like sometimes you'll get owned by dakkavomit or massed SRMs or red lasers.

I do get the frustration. Blue lasers feel worse because if you're caught out by them, you can't fight back effectively. but by the same token, if I run up on a blue laser SNV or the like and I'm in an SRM bomber ACW, he's gonna have a very bad time.

And it's that the sniping is always some combo of ERLL, Gauss, ERPPC, some-AC2-or-other, that just makes it feel like so many weapons and builds across the board are geared to it anymore. That's the part I'm trying to wrap my head around.

[pattonesque]

Neutron IX, on 31 March 2022 - 02:56 PM, said:

And it's that the sniping is always some combo of ERLL, Gauss, ERPPC, some-AC2-or-other, that just makes it feel like so many weapons and builds across the board are geared to it anymore. That's the part I'm trying to wrap my head around.

yeah I totally get that. you do have to be more careful now -- before, sniper builds didn't quite have enough power to stop people from pushing. Now they do -- but, crucially, mechs geared toward short-range have gotten big armor buffs and are quirked toward brawling (something like the Yen-lo-wang, of all things, is actually a holy terror now up close). In my experience, it's been useful to slow down a bit, wait until you can identify where the snipers are, and then figure out a path to go smack them in the face.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Once you learn the new maps, snipers will be less of a burden on you. But yeah, the game style changed and short or medium range builds have to be very careful with their movement in the open.

I adapted to it by adding several high DPS 100kph medium mechs to my stable. Snipers often isolate themselves from the bulk of their team and hunting them down is both rewarding and satisfying. They're particularly vulnerable on HPG and Emerald Vale (unless the whole team ridge-deploys with them).

[pattonesque]

ScrapIron Prime, on 31 March 2022 - 03:14 PM, said:

Once you learn the new maps, snipers will be less of a burden on you. But yeah, the game style changed and short or medium range builds have to be very careful with their movement in the open.

I adapted to it by adding several high DPS 100kph medium mechs to my stable. Snipers often isolate themselves from the bulk of their team and hunting them down is both rewarding and satisfying. They're particularly vulnerable on HPG and Emerald Vale (unless the whole team ridge-deploys with them).

to that note, I highly recommend this mech as an excellent sniper killer. Fast-ish, the JJs help you get places and spread damage, the ECM keeps you hidden on approach and the alpha is significant

[LordNothing]

there is no sniper position without a covered approach. most maps give you options for closing under cover. new maps are even better at it. the new map, even though i only played it twice, i felt that dispite the sniper positions, there was ample cover to allow some avoidance maneuvers.

[pattonesque]

LordNothing, on 31 March 2022 - 03:27 PM, said:

there is no sniper position without a covered approach. most maps give you options for closing under cover. new maps are even better at it. the new map, even though i only played it twice, i felt that dispite the sniper positions, there was ample cover to allow some avoidance maneuvers.

I think the big thing about Vale is that the sniper spots give a really significant view of the map as a whole and have cover along the entire ridge. So you can fire, reposition in complete safety and stealth, and fire again from wherever you'd like. Compare to HPG, where the cover on the wall is legitimate but also isolated and obvious. If you're behind one pillar, you have to go quite a ways to the next one -- or drop off the wall entirely, which is its own problem.

[LordNothing]

pattonesque, on 31 March 2022 - 03:31 PM, said:

I think the big thing about Vale is that the sniper spots give a really significant view of the map as a whole and have cover along the entire ridge. So you can fire, reposition in complete safety and stealth, and fire again from wherever you'd like. Compare to HPG, where the cover on the wall is legitimate but also isolated and obvious. If you're behind one pillar, you have to go quite a ways to the next one -- or drop off the wall entirely, which is its own problem.

i havent dropped on the new map in a sniper build yet, im gonna need to check that out. i dont really like sniping on nuhpg, for exactly that reason.

[Neutron IX]

I really do appreciate all the constructive input. I definitely wasn't looking to whinge and be salty about everything. I really do want to adapt, but damn if I wasn't feeling the pain here today. It was discouraging hearing from T1 friends (highest I've ever managed is T2, until this rough patch) that even they were quitting because of the snipe game, so I was hoping it wasn't as grim as all that.

I also think part of my pain is that rather than play mechs I enjoy and am comfortable or even good in, I'm grinding the Platinum events, and some of those mechs (*cough* Jenners *cough*) I'm especially not great in.

Thinking that maybe once the grinding is past and I'm back into some of the mechs I love more, maybe the blow softens. lol

Cheers, all!

[Beastbear]

So yes, it's a thing. That said, i'm finding it easiest with the artic wolf srm and griff 2n mrm right now. You have to pick your marks, know your maps, domination and cover helps a lot. Give it a good run and even going down early you still pull solid match score and bill's, even on a loss.

[JudauAshta]

yes sniping dominates especially that direcamp(8 x ERLL) build which even i am guilty of running.

new map actually has tons of cover from snipers, you can play the waiting game against them so they are forced to come to your brawler range.

[Apteko]

> Is it just me, or does the game seem dominated by sniping right now

Not really "dominated" - it is more viable in qp now as people said.
And long range lasvom is an easy way to farm tons of damage on worse players while also being pretty simple to play. Latter is quite a big factor: it allows player to snipe happily dealing some damage every match. So weaker pilots gravitate to it - and they usually don't notice that even though their damage numbers are not completely terrible, they are still a burden on their team.
Once you become more aware of your positioning and once overall match quality becomes better - it will be way less of a problem.
Pilots will not expose themselves to full duration or they'll spread damage across components. And more long range pinpoint (or laser vomit + pinpoint) mechs will appear, which have less impressive alphas than pure blue flashlight masters, but counter typical lasvom snipers.

I am not saying that mass blue lights are "lurms of tier 3" and will appear once in three matches after you're out of it - they remain perfectly viable up to the point of some chassis requiring nerfs, but you will both see somewhat less of them and they will be less of a problem.

Edited by Apteko, 31 March 2022 - 11:12 PM.

[killkimno]

you right sniper meta ruined everything
All my friends quit the game because of the sniper meta


I also want to quit the game because of the sniper.

I've been with my friends since the closed / open beta, but they all quit for the same reason.

Edited by killkimno, 01 April 2022 - 03:54 AM.

[pbiggz]

Snipers have been gone for the better part of 7 years, nerfed so swiftly and so completely by Paul Inouye that nobody ever had to worry about them.

Now, they're viable again. Not overpowered. Not dominant, but present.

The volume of screaming, mostly from this forum, has been deafening. I guess in that 7 years, you 7 or so guys who are wailing have decided you don't need to worry about snipers anymore, so their presence is an affront and an attack. How dare someone have the temerity to use a strategy you don't personally like.

About this time last year we had this exact argument with a certain gentleman who no longer posts on this forum. He felt it was his entitlement to demand targeted nerfs on strategies he didn't play because he felt he died to much to them when playing his own mechs. Just how reasonable do you think your argument is?

[Corbantu]

What range would you all define snipping? To me it's anything over 800 meters, which from what I am experiencing those engagements don't occur often and when they do they don't last. Everyone moves to cover and takes more secure avenues of approach. I may be seeing more Snipers and LRMs, but I'm I'm not seeing them dominate the battles or have overwhelming impacts on them.

The last 3 mechs I made, I've tried to give them optimal engagement range of 600 though. Versatility seems to be the best meta to me. But I'm a mediocre pilot.

[pattonesque]

pbiggz, on 01 April 2022 - 04:46 AM, said:

The volume of screaming, mostly from this forum, has been deafening. I guess in that 7 years, you 7 or so guys who are wailing have decided you don't need to worry about snipers anymore, so their presence is an affront and an attack. How dare someone have the temerity to use a strategy you don't personally like.

A few days ago I was lucky enough to be running a 6ERLL SNV on new Frozen. I started trading with a Rifleman-IIC across the chasm. He was running LPLs and traded with me, without twisting or going into cover, five times with predictable results. It's stuff like that, where people repeatedly make suboptimal decisions, which leads me to believe that "snipers OP" can mostly be solved by gameplay changes.

[pbiggz]

pattonesque, on 01 April 2022 - 06:37 AM, said:

A few days ago I was lucky enough to be running a 6ERLL SNV on new Frozen. I started trading with a Rifleman-IIC across the chasm. He was running LPLs and traded with me, without twisting or going into cover, five times with predictable results. It's stuff like that, where people repeatedly make suboptimal decisions, which leads me to believe that "snipers OP" can mostly be solved by gameplay changes.

You'll like the HPG thread then because its giving me cancer and the sniper hate crowd is out in force.