20 replies to this topic

[Mr Nice Mech]

I'm in a Cyclops....a Cougar shuts down in front of me. I put 2 full 4x LB-10X salvos into it before it powered back up, then put another 4 shots into it while it moved. Lost my side torso and put another 2 rounds into it...no kill? It was maybe 200m away....at best, probably sub-150.

140 damage into a light....80 unmitigated and no kill? No, it wasn't fresh, this was at the end of the match. No components destroyed.

Your game just keeps sliding into the trash heap.

[Fae Puka]

You would be amazed how much damage a shut down mech can take sometimes. If you are hitting a damaged mech part, arm, leg or side torso, a lot of that damage is mitigated as a its transferred to other locations. Its not unusual for me to take 700 or 800 damage on an assault because of this phenomenon when in total, my armour and structure only add up to 2/3rd of that in total.

If you don't have the full choke skill points, this reduces the number of pellets that can hit quite quickly when firing at range, even at 100m+, so although you are hitting, its most likely only a percentage of your damage will strike (bit of rng in there as well otherwise the lbx would end up being the same as a straight AC).

Finally, if the Cougar pilot has invested heavily in crit reduction, this will reduce your chances of a kill from a scatter shot.

Sounds like you experienced a full set of known effects all at the same time; frustrating indeed, but I've hit the rear CT of mechs from virtually point blank with multiple AC or gauss and barely scratched the paint work, other times, I've sent them to the mech scrapyard in the sky from the same shot. Sometimes the gods of MWO work in your favour, sometimes they don't

[crazytimes]

I feel sometimes hitreg on spread weapons can get overwhelmed and drop some hits. Had some bad experiences with massed Rocket launchers.

At the same time, a light mech can spread LBX over many hitboxes, and if some of those are destroyed and have the 50% damage mitigation applied, it's not unreasonable for it to soak up a fair bit of damage. Cougar got some meaty armour buffs in one of the patch passes as well..

[Sjorpha]

I know there was a pretty common issue before where a mechs hitbox could be a little displaced if it shut down while moving, causing some hitreg problems on shutdown mechs. Don't know if that's still the case though.

Anyways it's difficult to comment on your situation without video, hard to look at the possible range of spread RNG for the LBs and so forth.

[Tarteso]

You know, lights are now more "viable"
Besides, a lot of mechs are now over-quirked IMO (dunno particularly about cougars) and all them are also over-skilled, after the latest changes in skill tree. So everybody have more spare skill points to improve armor-related skills or whatever they want..

[Nightbird]

Post a video and we can give you tips on how to kill a stationary mech better.

[Escef]

I've tanked over 500 damage in a light before. You'd be surprised how much damage you can plow into a mech without killing it. LBX cannons are infamous for spreading damage across a target, if you'd been using a straight AC10 or even a UAC10 it probably wouldn't have taken more than 2 or 3 trigger pulls.

As a side note, the spread on LBX is less of an issue (still an issue, just not as pronounced) against assaults and heavies. The bigger hitboxes mitigate the damage spread somewhat.

[Curccu]

Mr Nice Mech, on 13 June 2022 - 12:05 AM, said:

I'm in a Cyclops....a Cougar shuts down in front of me. I put 2 full 4x LB-10X salvos into it before it powered back up, then put another 4 shots into it while it moved. Lost my side torso and put another 2 rounds into it...no kill? It was maybe 200m away....at best, probably sub-150.

140 damage into a light....80 unmitigated and no kill? No, it wasn't fresh, this was at the end of the match. No components destroyed.

Your game just keeps sliding into the trash heap.

Math is hard... blaming game is easy.

Just picked Cougar-H from mech DB and added skilltree extra armor & structure and didn't include head to these numbers..

Armor 365.31
Structure 195.96
561 total hitpoints.

Why do you think your 140 spread damage should kill this mech with those hitpoints?
Just CT has 70.11 armor and 30.36 structure --> 100.47 se even if your weapons could have hit CT only while shutdown it would not have died.

[ScrapIron Prime]

And if your aim isn't perfect, a portion of your LBX pellets could be passing beside or under hitboxes and into terrain. So I'd round that 140 down a bit to be safe.

[Vonbach]

Or the pellets could be simply not registering. One of the reasons I stopped using them in scouting matches.

[Void Angel]

Mr Nice Mech, on 13 June 2022 - 12:05 AM, said:

I'm in a Cyclops....a Cougar shuts down in front of me. I put 2 full 4x LB-10X salvos into it before it powered back up, then put another 4 shots into it while it moved. Lost my side torso and put another 2 rounds into it...no kill? It was maybe 200m away....at best, probably sub-150.

140 damage into a light....80 unmitigated and no kill? No, it wasn't fresh, this was at the end of the match. No components destroyed.

Your game just keeps sliding into the trash heap.

TL;DR: A Cougar Prime with no durability skill points whatsoever will have 425 armor on its limbs and torsos. You did at most 140 damage - even if every round hit and did full damage, you're still doing substantially less damage than his starting durability - he could have taken 50% overall damage and still absorb that amount of firepower. That Cougar had enough durability to reasonably survive your LB-X barrage because of your weapon characteristics and its size. He got lucky, but it's still well within the realm of mathematical plausibility.

Dealing with Lights is one of the harder things about piloting big, slow 'nechs. I was an Atlas pilot back when host state rewind didn't work and you had to guess at where the 'mech actually was - we're talking having to lead a target with lasers. Your experience with that Cougar isn't typical, but it is going to happen from time to time when you take on small 'mechs with spread weapons. It's just one of the ways the dice can fall when you use spread weapons against small targets: you're going to have to chew through a higher proportion of their total durability in order to kill them, because more of their hit boxes lie within the area of your spread. The same thing happens with SRMs.

Now, if you have trouble with Lights on the regular, it might help you to invest in anchor turn, twist speed, and possibly twist range skills (in that order.) I earned my Ace of Spades in a Spider 3D, and I can confidently tell you that no Light pilot wants to tangle with an Assault 'mech that consistently presents that Light with its front armor and guns. Even if he gets lucky and doesn't lose any bits, he's still going to take his perforated little tin can out of sight to lurk at you - or just go bother someone else. But since this was at the end of the match, Lights are going to be willing to do things they normally would not do - like shut down trying to kill a battered Cyclops.

Edited by Void Angel, 13 June 2022 - 02:37 PM.

[Bassault]

Aim correctly.

Edit: Earlier today an urbanmech was walking halfway through a bridge and I fired 4 c-lpl and 1 gauss into him and nothing happened... then he was running in place. Then he teleported like 30m ahead and when I shot him there again he took dmg and died. It could be an extreme case of lag from that user's end. I've also seen this happen one other time in my entire mwo experience against a nova (medium) that took 3 salvos from ac10s while his mech was running in place.

Edited by I LOVE ANNIHILATORS, 13 June 2022 - 04:55 PM.

[LordNothing]

with lb-x, you can aim correctly and still miss.

[panzer1b]

Theres a reason i dont like using the LBX10s in MWO as they simply do not do reliable damage and the "crit" feature really doesnt help in any noticeable amount crazy RNG aside. That and once someone has an open component its not like i care about crits when a single laser burn or dakka burst from anything that does more then 50 damage will generally remove the entire component outright.

Basically the LBX is one of those weapons that great on paper, does good damage numerically (you can and will get 1K dmg on a quad LBX10 mount if played right), but its killing power isnt all that exceptional, so much so that id rather have triple AC10 on IS side as i consider it to be far more effective if the player actually can aim and hits every shot. I havent played it in a while as there are better builds then just 3 AC10s, but i recall the victor being amazing with the triple AC10s and even one of the nightstars did it.

But yeah, its also possible that the hitboxes were messed up as the game does get a tad buggy at times. I swear that almost every match i get nailed in teh face by PPCs with the explosion fx and all and it does 0 damage to the mech, literally 0 (and i know its not a case of range since this often happens from 800m and even a normal unskilled PPC does at least some dmg at that range. That and there seems to be a bug thats gotten better but is still very much alive where damage from lots of projectiles at once vanishes into thin air. Ive had this happen with SRMs mostly but LBs are also prone to it at least on occasions where there is alot of latency.

[Saved By The Bell]

Because Cougar is assault mech.

[Mr Nice Mech]

Curccu, on 13 June 2022 - 12:24 PM, said:

Math is hard... blaming game is easy.

Just picked Cougar-H from mech DB and added skilltree extra armor & structure and didn't include head to these numbers..

Armor 365.31
Structure 195.96
561 total hitpoints.

Why do you think your 140 spread damage should kill this mech with those hitpoints?
Just CT has 70.11 armor and 30.36 structure --> 100.47 se even if your weapons could have hit CT only while shutdown it would not have died.

EL OH EL

Math is hard. This was the end of the match. The mech wasn't in 100% condition. No one was - I lost my side torso firing 4 salvos into this mech. But, you know, your math is on point...I guess?

No light late in the game should take 80 damage......wait, did you work LB10 crit into your math? Skill tree doesn't negate crit to 0, just reduces. 80 crit pellets and no components destroyed, in a late game light. Totally feasible. Math sound and secure. Or just PGI? If I blew of the arm and was somehow soaking another 40-100 in the arm and not hitting torso/center - is this how this game is coded? No components destroyed. Explain your genius math, because it is truly hard.

[Curccu]

Mr Nice Mech, on 14 June 2022 - 01:47 AM, said:

EL OH EL

Math is hard. This was the end of the match. The mech wasn't in 100% condition. No one was - I lost my side torso firing 4 salvos into this mech. But, you know, your math is on point...I guess?

No light late in the game should take 80 damage......wait, did you work LB10 crit into your math? Skill tree doesn't negate crit to 0, just reduces. 80 crit pellets and no components destroyed, in a late game light. Totally feasible. Math sound and secure. Or just PGI? If I blew of the arm and was somehow soaking another 40-100 in the arm and not hitting torso/center - is this how this game is coded? No components destroyed. Explain your genius math, because it is truly hard.

Not 100% condition so 99% condition or 90, 80?
Full health WEAKEST cougar has 561 HP some variants have more, 50% of that is still a lot more than 120, from 150-200 meters away there is spread and you will hit multiple components of light mech, and miss some pellets most likely also, if that mech had something destroyed and you shot that destroyed part there is damage transfer -% in damage.
was it 1v1?
Your crits extras can be negated with missed pellets.

Math has nothing to explain, but you could have taken video of said happening... it would be way easier to see what happened then.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

short version:

OP shot a mech, and it didn't have the intended outcome.
and the game is to blame for that.

well..

[ScrapIron Prime]

Just another anecdotal account with no screenshots or video looking for a mob with torches. Yawn.

[Thorqemada]

Probably the weapons did not converge as well and sprayed all over the target - also overheated mechs tend to have slighty disadjusted hit boxes, the worse the faster they go, terrain plays a role also as it can trick the hitboxes to disadjust.

Dont make yourself a headache about it...

Edited by Thorqemada, 14 June 2022 - 03:10 PM.