22 replies to this topic

[tartan tardigrade]

I'm struggling with 2 concepts within my loadout choices.

A.
A balanced load out which allows me to put weapons on to opponents at long, middle and short ranges, whilst taking care of heat and manoeuvrability.

B.
A weapons loadout heavily weighted to a fixed distance, making use of all of the quirks that relate to that weapons group.

It seems to come down to those with whom i drop, if you find a group that communicate the well, balanced approach works well with me adding my firepower and armour to the whole. If I drop with a group that are 12 single players the weighted loadout seems to work better as I can match myself with a team mate who best fills the holes in my own attack and defence strategies.

I would be grateful if you could tell me how you overcome this disconnect with strategies.
Thank you in advance.

[Gagis]

A is always inferior to B. Being able to utilize everything you carry at the range in which your mech is supposed to operate is just so much more powerful than utilizing only a small part of your mech in every situation.

This is applicable to MWO, the Battletech board game, real life, everything. Specialization is superior to jack of all trades, master of none. If you need a mech of a different role, bring a different mech.

[Randomm]

Generalist mechs generally get killed. If you can do something in every situation, you cant do any really really well. Figure out how you like to play: long range, Support, sneaky, brawling, etc. then pick a mech that does that well, configure it so that it is awesome at that one thing... and have fun.

[CFC Conky]

Option B will be more effective.

That said, in QP your build might not always suit the map and/or mode and/or team composition but generally you will be better off if you avoid 'Jack of all trades' builds.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[RickySpanish]

Always stack weapons and equipment to fill one role, which usually includes one effective range, and cooldowns across all weapons that are similar. Use map awareness and communication to get into a position to be within your effective range. Sometimes you will find yourself useless yes, but you will also not be the 'jack of all trades yet master of none'.

[ScrapIron Prime]

I’ll disagree somewhat with the prevailing wisdom… it is certainly possible to thrive as a generalist build. But what you need is weapons with two distinct range bands and aim to fight at a distance where they overlap. LRMs and large lasers, for example, and fight at 300-500 meters. PPCs and Medium lasers, for example, and fight at 100-400 meters.

The only weapons you do NOT want to mix are as follows:

1 - weapons whose range categories are mutually exclusive, like LRMs and small/micro lasers, or LRMs and SRMs, as most often you will be put in a position of having one set of your weapons be useless while you use the other set.

2 - weapons that lead the target differently. For example, a build that mixes autocannons, SRMs, and lasers. The autocannons lead the target differently than the SRMs and the lasers don’t lead the target at all. At anything other than point blank range, this means you often have to fire the weapons separately for accuracy, which increases the amount of time you’re exposed to the enemy and increases the number of hit locations you’ll hit on the enemy. Until you're used to the game, sticking with a single type of weapon simplifies scoring hits. When you learn a bit more, most folks up to two kinds of leading weapons (lasers and SRMs or lasers and autocannons, for example). Even the best players usually avoid 3 or more.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 20 June 2022 - 06:54 AM.

[Zeddicuus]

Like some of the others, I find overlap works great and work at that mid range. Running a Timberwolf/MadCat, I tend to load up on 2 LRM20, a tag and 4 ERML. The overlap range would be that 200m-500m range so I try to close in to that range to support the brawlers with missiles as I'm moving into range for my lasers to get in on the action. TBR also has the mobility to move around and quickly get into good firing positions to help cover those assaults and other brawlers.

Edited by Zeddicuus, 20 June 2022 - 06:56 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

Instead of being 25-75% effective all ranges, it's better to be 100% effective at one range, get into that range, get the kill, and get back into cover.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Ditto the above but be wary of going all-in on short range builds unless you're in a fast and agile mech. Brawling assaults limited to < 300 m will often get picked apart outside that range, so you'll want to pick something other than small lasers, SRMs and AC20s.

[caravann]

Your speed need to be quick and you'll have to learn the movesets of your opponents.

You have to think that the long range weapon is meant to be used in short range.

That's why gauss rifle is used in dark range to work in sun range bro.

[pattonesque]

as folks have said, A is worse. The basic reason is that you've built a mech that can fight at all ranges, but will lose at all those ranges to builds that are built specifically for them. So for example, you'll see people building Atlases with ER Large lasers and MRMs and an AC/20 -- they'll be trading 2 ERLL against mechs with four, one MRM40 against massed UACs, and one AC/20 against an AC/20 plus SRMs.

[Sawk]

HMM LET ME HELP YOU.

First off what mouse you got, do use keyboard only ??. as hard as it is some are very good at it. back too your mouse, it probally a 2 button mouse, maybe more ect ect.
I always tell new folks you are over thinking build a 2 weapon system, for the 2 buttons on your mouse, why LAZER VOMIT works, i run alot of it 2 weapons, 2 large lazers and 4 med lazers, and it can be used close range, then spec it to shoot faster.
STOP over thinking--- try 3 LBX 2s and 4 med lazers, or 2 PPC and 3 med lazer ect ect ect .

GOOD LUCK SAWK CLANNER timberwolf

[Escef]

Depending upon your playstyle, it might be beneficial to have token long range weapons on a brawler. I have a dual UAC20 KGC with a pair of LRM5s, just to give me something to do early in the match. If it baits an enemy to engage up close, so much the better. I am impatient and aggressive, so those little 5 packs give me something to do early in the game that doesn't include a YOLO-rush. Would it be better if I spent those 5 tons on something else? SRMs? MRMs? Swapping my 2xML to 2xMPL and sneaking in a heat sink and a TC2? Sure, these are all viable options, and make the mech better at its primary role. But I need to be doing something, and if I'm not, it's hard to resist the urge to go looking for a fight... Which I usually will find, just that the fight I find if I look too early is often 3 or 4 against 1. Sure, I will mess one or two of them up, maybe even drop one of 'em, but I am not winning that fight.

Conversely, if you have a weapon with a dead zone (Inner Sphere LRMs, ATMs, even Clan LRMs to a lesser degree), pack some backup weapons. Medium Lasers cover all manner of sins in this regard, and can even boost your DPS a little when you have LOS.

One of the interesting aspects of long range direct fire guns is that most of them are still quite useful and effective up close. The stock weapons on the BJ-1 Blackjack are shockingly good in MWO. Sure, you'll want to upgrade your engine, sinks, structure, etc., but twin AC2 backed up by quad MLs is solid. No, it's not as effective as a single AC20 and a bunch of MLs (which was the meta Blackjack for a long while), but the AC2s will make you more relevant early game (and they out DPS a Gauss rifle while being lighter and more compact).

Overall, a specialist will always outperform a generalist in its area of specialization. More flexible builds will be less likely to be caught in an situation where they can't fight back, and will likely outperform a specialist caught outside of its preferred range. However, the fact that direct-fire, long-range builds still perform acceptably up close tends to make them the preferred builds. One might note that the LB2X boats out there don't particularly care what range they engage you at, so long as they can DPS you into oblivion; and ERLLs may be inferior to a bank of MLs/MPLs at close range, but they are still going to hurt.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Partially disagree. Its one thing to have a couple Large Lasers or PPCs on your brawler because those weapons can also be used in a brawl provided you can manage the heat. But a couple LRM 5's on an AC/20 brawler is a couple dead tons, honestly, since you can't use them much of the time when using your other weapons.

[Escef]

ScrapIron Prime, on 21 June 2022 - 09:34 AM, said:

Partially disagree. Its one thing to have a couple Large Lasers or PPCs on your brawler because those weapons can also be used in a brawl provided you can manage the heat. But a couple LRM 5's on an AC/20 brawler is a couple dead tons, honestly, since you can't use them much of the time when using your other weapons.

From a purely build perspective, you are right. From the perspective of the reality of dealing with my own aggression, and doing something to placate it? Very different story. I even came right out and said that already.

Edited by Escef, 21 June 2022 - 09:49 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

ScrapIron Prime, on 21 June 2022 - 09:34 AM, said:

Partially disagree. Its one thing to have a couple Large Lasers or PPCs on your brawler because those weapons can also be used in a brawl provided you can manage the heat. But a couple LRM 5's on an AC/20 brawler is a couple dead tons, honestly, since you can't use them much of the time when using your other weapons.

Not to mention, AMS will usually chew up a pair of LRMs and they won't deal any damage at all. Better off with MRMs at least. But honestly, lasers all the way because they provide the most damage per ton (you just have to pay that back in the form of heat and not always use them). ER Mediums give you some poke to medium range, though not much damage, but better than nothing and only cost 1 ton.

[PocketYoda]

Depends on the mech, the loadout design and the weapon slots.. some all rounders can be amazing when used effectively, others are purely bad..

Take the Arrow black jack. six machine guns, two er mediums and one large pulse laser literally deletes anything.. and specializes in deleting light mechs.

The ranges are all different but when used at correct distances it destroys everything.

[mytilus edulis]

ScrapIron Prime, on 20 June 2022 - 06:45 AM, said:

I’ll disagree somewhat with the prevailing wisdom… it is certainly possible to thrive as a generalist build. But what you need is weapons with two distinct range bands and aim to fight at a distance where they overlap. LRMs and large lasers, for example, and fight at 300-500 meters. PPCs and Medium lasers, for example, and fight at 100-400 meters.

The only weapons you do NOT want to mix are as follows:

1 - weapons whose range categories are mutually exclusive, like LRMs and small/micro lasers, or LRMs and SRMs, as most often you will be put in a position of having one set of your weapons be useless while you use the other set.

2 - weapons that lead the target differently. For example, a build that mixes autocannons, SRMs, and lasers. The autocannons lead the target differently than the SRMs and the lasers don’t lead the target at all. At anything other than point blank range, this means you often have to fire the weapons separately for accuracy, which increases the amount of time you’re exposed to the enemy and increases the number of hit locations you’ll hit on the enemy. Until you're used to the game, sticking with a single type of weapon simplifies scoring hits. When you learn a bit more, most folks up to two kinds of leading weapons (lasers and SRMs or lasers and autocannons, for example). Even the best players usually avoid 3 or more.

red lasers + ERPPC on the EXE and others is generally a good combo

[ScrapIron Prime]

mytilus edulis, on 23 June 2022 - 03:25 AM, said:

red lasers + ERPPC on the EXE and others is generally a good combo

Yup, because when you get into red laser range, the ERPPCs work just fine.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Nomad Tech, on 22 June 2022 - 11:41 PM, said:

Depends on the mech, the loadout design and the weapon slots.. some all rounders can be amazing when used effectively, others are purely bad..

Take the Arrow black jack. six machine guns, two er mediums and one large pulse laser literally deletes anything.. and specializes in deleting light mechs.

The ranges are all different but when used at correct distances it destroys everything.

Have to say, that has not been my experience with the Arrow but then again I prefer fighting at medium range and not against lights.