67 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

Meep Meep, on 27 June 2022 - 09:24 PM, said:

Well thats too strict an interpretation given the state of the game and how you can get multiple heroes per year off the free MC especially if you wait to spend it during sales. It's like a kid complaining his sibling got a bit more soup or a bigger slice of pie to be honest. Besides there has to be something to entice spending real money on the game or we ~all~ lose in the end?

Lol name calling really? I already said I had most heroes. If you want the game to die harder, go ahead, ask for p2w. Why not make premium time give 10% more hp and damage while you're at it.

[Escef]

I think the CN9-YLW is still the fastest AC20 or UAC20 carrier the Inner Sphere has that is still practical. Just change the paintjob, because to any experienced player the Yen-Lo's distinctive pattern/coloration screams, "I'm fast and pack an AC20, you want me dead."

[Meep Meep]

Nightbird, on 27 June 2022 - 09:34 PM, said:

Lol name calling really? I already said I had most heroes. If you want the game to die harder, go ahead, ask for p2w. Why not make premium time give 10% more hp and damage while you're at it.

I didn't call you any names? I described your attitude towards the topic. I get it. You don't like the idea of paid mechs being equal or ever so slightly better than the cbill variants but don't really have any reason other than feels. Thanks for your opinion?

[Nightbird]

Meep Meep, on 27 June 2022 - 10:40 PM, said:

I didn't call you any names? I described your attitude towards the topic. I get it. You don't like the idea of paid mechs being equal or ever so slightly better than the cbill variants but don't really have any reason other than feels. Thanks for your opinion?

In that case, let me describe your reading comprehension as kindergarten level for failing to read I very much would like to see heroes to be equal to c-bill variants. It's only the higher than part I disagreed with.

Note that in the post I quoted, no where did you say equal, only better than c-bill variants.

[Meep Meep]

Nightbird, on 27 June 2022 - 10:47 PM, said:

In that case, let me describe your reading comprehension as kindergarten level for failing to read I very much would like to see heroes to be equal to c-bill variants. It's only the higher than part I disagreed with.

Note that in the post I quoted, no where did you say equal, only better than c-bill variants.

I said ever so slightly better. Not balance breaking better. You know. Like how the best cbill mech is typically only ever so slightly better then the next best cbill mech and often only at a certain role or loadout? Goodness take a nap you are grumpy..

[caravann]

Victor GAI
- Not the hero we wanted but the hero we deserve.

There's also the Clanbuster mechs.
Some mechs are common and legendary.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Even "ever so slightly better" has a lot of leeway. For example, I wouldn't buff an Annihilator Mean Baby much at all because it's already good at what it does... an annihilator that annihilates with MRMs. Likewise, you don't need to touch the Charger Number Seven because it does something unique already... 90% crit reduction, which you can increase to 100 with skills. Or the Highlander Heavy Metal, as it is now the only mech without jump jet shake.

But the Zeus Skokomish? You could give that thing 10 more cooldown, heat, AND range and it still wouldn't overpower it... because its a Zeus.

[Nightbird]

I don't support this at all. Now that I understand the purpose of your thread, I removed my posts in support of it. GL

Edited by Nightbird, 28 June 2022 - 06:26 AM.

[Escef]

ScrapIron Prime, on 28 June 2022 - 05:44 AM, said:

But the Zeus Skokomish? You could give that thing 10 more cooldown, heat, AND range and it still wouldn't overpower it... because its a Zeus.

I dunno, my Resistance Zeus is one of only 2 mechs I've ever broken 1300 damage with.

But, yeah, the Skoko, last I checked, needs a little something. Sure, it's the fastest Spheroid assault, being an 80-tonner with a 400 engine cap and MASC, but that's still a LOT of tonnage to devote to speed. I'm thinking heat dissipation, bonus ammo, and/or MASC shake reduction quirks. Stuff to compensate for the loss of payload and accuracy.

[Flyby215]

Buff all of them!

Disclaimer: I own a lot of hero mechs...

[PocketYoda]

LordNothing, on 27 June 2022 - 06:02 PM, said:

my la malinche is actually registering slightly above average. granted i spent a lot of time in banshees in the early days so i knew how to play one. here are all my heroes and their brownie points rating:

BOLT 1.85
ALPHA 1.48
ULTRAVIOLET 1.47
JADE KITE 1.45
PRIDE 1.40
VANGUARD 1.30
ANANSI 1.29
K-9 1.27
MAUL 1.26
AMBUSH 1.22
RANCOR 1.21
BLOOD KIT 1.19
SABRE 1.18
SLEIPNIR 1.18
SCORCH 1.17
GHILLIE 1.16
BLACK WIDOW 1.14
ILYA MUROMETS 1.13
BOILER 1.13
KATANA KAT 1.12
RAINBOW CROW 1.11
SHARD 1.11
VIRAGO 1.10
BANDIT 1.09
LA MALINCHE 1.08
POWERHOUSE 1.08
DEATHSTRIKE 1.05
MISERY 1.04
BLUDGEON 1.04
GRINNER 1.03
TOP DOG 1.02
QUARANTINE 1.02
SEKHMET 1.00
THE DEATH'S KNELL 0.99
HIGH ROLLER 0.97
KAIJU 0.97
BROADSIDE 0.97
SKOKOMISH 0.96
FIREBRAND 0.95
CIPHER 0.95
IV-FOUR 0.92
YEN-LO-WANG 0.92
CHERBI 0.91
STREET CLEANER 0.90
NANUQ 0.90
EBON DRAGOON 0.85
LACERATOR 0.85
HI THERE! 0.85
FLAME 0.85
THE GRAY DEATH 0.84
LEGEND-KILLER 0.84
PAKHET 0.84
OXIDE 0.84
FURY 0.82
DARKDEATH 0.82
GRID IRON 0.82
CINDER 0.82
EMBER 0.81
ROMEO 5000 0.79
HANGOVER 0.78
MJÖLNIR 0.77
MEDUSA 0.77
BELIAL 0.76
HUGINN 0.70
FLORENTINE 0.70
PURIFIER 0.70
THE ARROW 0.68
BLOOD ADDER 0.67
PIRATES' BANE 0.67
FIRESTORM 0.50

higher number = better. value of 1.0 is average.

Florentine good if you build it well. 2x Rac 2s 2x mediums lasers and 2x srms seems well really good.

Edited by Nomad Tech, 29 June 2022 - 11:40 PM.

[Sjorpha]

The aim of current balancing by cauldron is to make all mechs worth playing and that includes the hero mechs.

They already tweaked a bunch of heroes in that process and I really don't see why they should be handled separately.

I've always liked the policy around heroes, they are just like other mechs balance wise but you get some unique hard points and camo. They seem popular, I have several and you see them in matches, so it works fine. No intentional p2w elements is one of the best things about mwo.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

2cents here;

it's no secret that quite a few heroes are underperforming. hopefully, the cauldron is on it.
if not, maybe it has to be stressed there a few times, too

and no: heroes should NOT EVER perform better in any shape or form than the standards.
but they should be on par with em. all of them.
you spend real money buying them, and you shouldn't be punished for that

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 30 June 2022 - 05:42 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Huginn and Oxide - Give them their original SRM4 quirks back. Especially in case of the Huginn you suddenly have a unique mech (you can remove the MG quirks)

Grid Iron - I am not even sure if the old gauss CD quirks would be enough to save it.


Let's face it, most hero chassis are pay2lose

Edited by Weeny Machine, 30 June 2022 - 05:45 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Part of the difficulty of balancing is that with literally hundreds of variants, it's hard to know which mechs aren't performing well because they suck versus the players just haven't played it in a while. There are popular choices and those are easy to look at, but the ones that are hardly used--is it because they are objectively bad or they just aren't popular for another reason?

There was a time that the Huggin and the Oxide were a little OP and they got nerfed. They are probably not out of line with other Jenners and Ravens today, but they just aren't popular because the chassis is overshadowed by so many others. And this will honestly always be a problem. By the time you've buffed a variant or chassis enough that people start picking it again, you've just reduced another variant or chassis into obscurity.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

TheCaptainJZ, on 30 June 2022 - 06:17 AM, said:

Part of the difficulty of balancing is that with literally hundreds of variants, it's hard to know which mechs aren't performing well because they suck versus the players just haven't played it in a while. There are popular choices and those are easy to look at, but the ones that are hardly used--is it because they are objectively bad or they just aren't popular for another reason?

There was a time that the Huggin and the Oxide were a little OP and they got nerfed. They are probably not out of line with other Jenners and Ravens today, but they just aren't popular because the chassis is overshadowed by so many others. And this will honestly always be a problem. By the time you've buffed a variant or chassis enough that people start picking it again, you've just reduced another variant or chassis into obscurity.

true enough, but there's quite an indicator if things are good or not, tbh.

if some variant of a chassis is 'the meta', aka used a lot (lets take a KDK3 here as an example), then ask yourself: "Is the hero-variant on par?" while fun, and more usable than before thx to the cauldrons good work, the spiritbear is still not on par.

or lets take the laser-hunchie and compare it to the gridiron. .. yeah.
or the same for the hunchieIIC (though to be fair: no idea how to buff BOTH heroes, cause they'd need A LOT to be on par).


yes, it's some work, but it's not "hundreds" of variants. just compare to the "top one". and there's almost always a "top one" that we all love/hate.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 30 June 2022 - 06:30 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

TheCaptainJZ, on 30 June 2022 - 06:17 AM, said:

Part of the difficulty of balancing is that with literally hundreds of variants, it's hard to know which mechs aren't performing well because they suck versus the players just haven't played it in a while. There are popular choices and those are easy to look at, but the ones that are hardly used--is it because they are objectively bad or they just aren't popular for another reason?

There was a time that the Huggin and the Oxide were a little OP and they got nerfed. They are probably not out of line with other Jenners and Ravens today, but they just aren't popular because the chassis is overshadowed by so many others. And this will honestly always be a problem. By the time you've buffed a variant or chassis enough that people start picking it again, you've just reduced another variant or chassis into obscurity.

If a chassis is a top performer, you'll see people gravitate to it. The ones you never see used are the ones with no amazing advantages. How many Osiris mechs do you see running around? Darn few, because it has no builds that go "wow."

Nobody runs a GridIron, for example, because 30% gauss cooldown isn't enough "wow" on a 50 ton IS mech to make everyone go there. It's neat, but there are better choices with more available tonnage. (One gauss rifle with a 30% cooldown on a 50t mech, or two gauss rifles with a 20% cooldown on a 65t mech?)

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 30 June 2022 - 07:25 AM.

[D A T A]

w0qj, on 25 June 2022 - 02:37 PM, said:

For Clan OmniPod mechs, the solution is quite simple:
==>Hero CT has +2.5% better quirk than the CBills version (-2.5% Heat, or +2.5% Velocity, +2.5% Cooldown, or -2.5% Heat Dissipation).
And please *do*not* do +2.5% Range similar to BAS-Rancor or Night Gyr Jade Kit hero mech which is a CT quirk disaster! I have this mech too).

==>CT hardpoint counts as a 2.5% quirk also (see above discussion on DWF-UV vs DWF-A quirks for CT).

Therefore under this proposal:
DWF-UV: -5% Heat, +10% Velocity, 1x Missile hardpoint
DWF-A: -5% Heat, +10% Velocity

======================
For the non-OmniMech it's much trickier (ie: IS mechs, Clan BattleTech mechs, Clan IIC mechs):
~Hero quirks 2.5% better than the Standard Variant ones, but taking into account the different hardpoints (it's almost like comparing apples to oranges, admittedly)

The cauldron does not use the pay to win logic.
Getting stronger stuff just because you pay for it is not the way the cauldron is handling the game balance.
We are trying to make heroes different from the c bill variants, not just better

Edited by D A T A, 30 June 2022 - 07:21 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

D A T A, on 30 June 2022 - 07:00 AM, said:

The cauldron does not use the pay to win logic.
Getting stronger stuff just because you pay for it is not the way the cauldron is handling the game balance.
We are trying to make heroes different from the c bill variants, not just better

I do prefer different. There are a thousand ways to boat lasers or autocannons, but only the Number Seven has a 90% crit reduction, only the Heavy Metal has no jump jet shake.

I like this approach. More please!

[caravann]

The speed need to be dropped on all mechs and +5% speed on hero Mech will make them competitive in why you should buy the mech. Main reason why a mech is good is how much time it last and how long the mech is faced upon the opponent. Speed reduce flanking capacity of opponent and speed in general bloats around 120kph where the server will start to lag behind. It takes skills to use the speed to your advantage. Longevity is based on how long in combat and mechs who either shorten the time in combat by dealing enough stopping power to end the duel or has health to compete in dps are equal to shorten the time by being faster.

DPS and alpha strikes don't demand any skills. In many encounters it becomes a waiting game. I know that I can't do anything about the situation than wait for the result. Either my mech has better dps compared to armor or it doesn't have it. But you can't run away.
If you run, you'll have to fight two mechs instead of one as the opponent is blocking the view for team members. Speed doesn't say much because speed on a mech help players who are good. Alpha strikes is based on that the opponent is unaware and is a sitting duck. Quite easy to hit an opponent who doesn't move and won't have a second chance.