52 replies to this topic

[Grimloon]

Not sure if this is simply a rare experience but as two of us in the same lance had it I figured I'd ask. Anyone else getting a UAC jam on the first shot, you don't even get to the double tap?

Initially I figured it was just me, I don't much like UACs and they definitely hate me. However, group drop earlier and we were both seeing the same thing - click once followed by jam. This was without jam chance skill nodes but quirks for reduced jams on my part, skill nodes and no quirks on my mate's part.

Can I replicate it? Yes. A lot. Is something broken or are UACs supposed to have a chance to jam on the first shot that I simply haven't seen mentioned?

[MechMaster059]

Yes, I've experienced this. It's very stupid and annoying.

[LordNothing]

sounds like you got a bouncy mouse. all buttons bounce, you usually use either software or hardware filters to debounce them, and some manufacturers are lazy. my old mouse used to have this problem so much that id regularly swap out the switches.

[FupDup]

Your mouse is probably registering multiple clicks even though you only clicked once.

A sloppy way around this is to bind your UACs to right click or some button other than left click.

[MechMaster059]

This is NOT due to a "bouncy" mouse. The way you know this is the weapon doesn't even fire a single round even though it's completely off cooldown. It just jams immediately.

[VeeOt Dragon]

yep i have this happen all the time. hell it can be the first shot of the match and it can still jam up. honestly i think they need to remove the jam chance entirely from that first shot. its one of the reason i never use UACs unless the mech is heavily quirked for jam chance reduction.

[Sumdumbum]

I had this happen to me today. Pulled the trigger once, jam.

[Gagis]

Most likely reason for this to happen is that your local game information is out of sync with the server due to bad internet connectivity. Server knows your weapon jammed from some previous shot, but client did not get the message. Then, when you try to fire again the server says no and client figures it out.

[Grimloon]

Fair enough, at least it's not just a couple of us.

On the bouncy mouse thing, your switches would have to be well on the way out to register that way. It would also be prevalent across everything you did. Not the case here, Razer Naga with the scroll wheel replaced so that's a touch shonky but the left/right clicks are still golden. I also assign the UAC to either the die it's on or my priority so it's right as often as left or possibly a thumb button.

[VeeOt Dragon]

jam chance is just a random event (RNG) with an increase chance if you double tap back to back to quickly. you can test it easily enough in the testing ground. take an unskilled mech with no Jam chance quirk and just single tap, wait a bit and single tap again. eventually they will jam without ever double tapping once.

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 14 June 2022 - 10:41 PM.

[Nightbird]

Somehow, you clicked twice. UACs are programed to not jam the first shot.

[VeeOt Dragon]

they do and always have. one click right out of the game and no round goes down range and the weapon jams


i tested it a long time ago by using the number key assigned to the weapon group so as to take any mouse issues out of the equation (my keyboard has rather stiff mechanical switch style keys). i also targeted one of the target mechs so i would know if a round actually went down range or not. i would wait at least twice the cooldown time before hitting the key again. if what you say is true they never would have jammed but they did. i have a pretty good connection and it was even better back then because i didn't use a VPN at the time.

[Nightbird]

VeeOt Dragon, on 14 June 2022 - 10:48 PM, said:

they do and always have. one click right out of the game and no round goes down range and the weapon jams


i tested it a long time ago by using the number key assigned to the weapon group so as to take any mouse issues out of the equation (my keyboard has rather stiff mechanical switch style keys). i also targeted one of the target mechs so i would know if a round actually went down range or not. i would wait at least twice the cooldown time before hitting the key again. if what you say is true they never would have jammed but they did. i have a pretty good connection and it was even better back then because i didn't use a VPN at the time.

make a video and post it

[Gagis]

Best test it in a lobby match. Testing Grounds has no server to communicate with and may have inconsistent code for resolving events that does not match what happens in real server-side calculations.

[cazeral]

Nightbird, on 14 June 2022 - 10:41 PM, said:

Somehow, you clicked twice. UACs are programed to not jam the first shot.

If you trawl the developer posts, this is spot on. RNG is a pain in the but, so there will be times when you get smashed by jam after jam which is why you look for the right quirked mechs and go for the jam reduction skills. Other times, you can keep fire up down range and never get a jam; just luck.

If you are firing two UACs on a single key press, they count as two simultaneous shots not one and can cause a jam on the first press, moving to sequential fire will allow at least one shot from that pairing, something to consider.

[Gagis]

cazeral, on 15 June 2022 - 12:54 AM, said:

If you are firing two UACs on a single key press, they count as two simultaneous shots not one and can cause a jam on the first press, moving to sequential fire will allow at least one shot from that pairing, something to consider.

The size of your weapon group does not matter.

Chain fire does prevent jams, simply because a chain firing group will never double tap at all.

[MechMaster059]

Nightbird, on 14 June 2022 - 10:41 PM, said:

Somehow, you clicked twice. UACs are programed to not jam the first shot.

Wrong.

Nightbird, on 14 June 2022 - 10:58 PM, said:

make a video and post it

Why don't you take the time to test it yourself in the testing grounds as suggested Mr. 7,000+ posts man.

[Gagis]

Don't do it in testing grounds, do it in a lobby with a friend. You'll see you won't be able to replicate the problem unless there are connectivity issues.

[MechMaster059]

Gagis, on 15 June 2022 - 02:44 AM, said:

Don't do it in testing grounds, do it in a lobby with a friend. You'll see you won't be able to replicate the problem unless there are connectivity issues.

I have a premium internet connection with Comcast that gives 700-900Mbps down and 25Mbps up. I routinely have between 30-60ms latency in game. (Sometimes it's up to 90ms)

I saw this problem happen plain as day on Rubellite Oasis. I walked across one of the walkways and saw an enemy mech on a hill only like 500m away and took a shot with my 2x U/AC5's. Insta-jam and no shell's came out. This had happened MULTIPLE TIMES before but, being a new player, I wasn't quite sure. This incident on Rubellite Oasis convinced me there exists a minimum flat chance for U/AC's to jam per shot.

If there's some issue with dual-firing multiple U/ACs then that is the ONLY THING that might explain it.

Gagis, on 15 June 2022 - 01:56 AM, said:

The size of your weapon group does not matter.

Chain fire does prevent jams, simply because a chain firing group will never double tap at all.

Oh, well I guess that isn't the issue.

[LordNothing]

MechMaster059, on 14 June 2022 - 06:59 PM, said:

This is NOT due to a "bouncy" mouse. The way you know this is the weapon doesn't even fire a single round even though it's completely off cooldown. It just jams immediately.

the debounce is real.



ive seen it on even very expensive mice. thing is they dispense with the hardware debounce in favor of doing it in the firmware, which fixes the performance of the debouncer to the on-paper technical specs for the switch. however contacts will corrode and wear down over time so the characteristics of the switch will also change, and not every debounce algorithm can handle that. unless they do long term wear testing, or even care for that matter. its in their interest to sell you more mice after all.