10 replies to this topic

[McQueen]

In another thread speculating about possible variants coming in the next patch someone mentioned the CPLT-C3. Obviously they were joking, but it got me think about how the Arrow IV could be implemented in MWO.

I could see two versions working in game.

The first would be a guided version that requires the target to be painted by a TAG beam the whole time the missile is in the air. If the TAG is lost for more than three seconds the missile self destructs. The guided missile would travel at the same speed as current LRMs. Minimum range should be 220 meters with no max distance. Damage should be 50 with no splash.

The second version would be the cluster bomb. The firing mechwarrior should have to mark a spot on the battle grid before being able to fire a missile at that point. If the mechwarrior wants to fire at a different target the mechwarrior needs to go back to the battle grid and designate the new target. A missile's target can not be changed while it is in the air. The missile should have a speed of 120 with a minimum range of 500 meters. Again, no maximum range. At the target point the missile would split into multiple bomblets covering a 90 meter diameter circle. Say eight bomblets doing 25 damage a piece?

Both missiles should have a high arching path but be very visible. I was also thinking that massed AMS should be able to shoot the missile down, but the arching path might make that unworkable.

Anyway those are my ideas. What do all of you think?

Edited by McQueen, 14 April 2014 - 07:45 PM.

[SilverStarDragon]

The arrow IV was a fun tool in MW4 when I played it, I'd support it being integrated into this game

But...a missile (with auto-aim) having 50 damage? That would completely annihilate any light mech it set eyes on and cripple the mediums, the slow moving heavies/assaults would be ripped to shreds with them as the tag laser (even with 3 second-loss restriction you suggested) can just sit on a cliff and watch while they desperately try to 'run' to some form of cover. Needless to say I think 50 damage is a bit overpowered, especially with the limitless maximum range. XD It would be interesting to see how ams would affect it too or if it could be shot down due to it's size...

If the missile had a more restricted range, like the 300m minimum and a maximum of 700m, than normal lrms and had a form of splash damage at the cost of reduced accuracy, I could see it working. The splash damage so a mech just doesn't get 50 damage straight on but have it more spread out and evade-able, but I guess that would make it more like a lock-able artillery cannon. ( restriction due to power and so it cant be paired with ssrms as your original suggestion was 220m)

Hope the arrow IV gets put in-game at some point!

[Thunder Child]

To me, the Arrow has always screamed "Artillery". And while Artillery has it's place on the battlefield, it's normally way the hell over there where it can't be hurt by the opposing force. That being said, I would love to see this thing in game, and I would be one of those Crazy enough to field it (It's what, 15 tons if I remember rightly?). And with only 5 shots per ton, this thing would be the Missile equivalent of an AC 20. With the tabletop version, it did 20 Damage to everything in the hex that it hit, with 10 damage to all adjacent hexes. I believe a hex was 30m? So, let's assume the location that gets hit takes 20 points, and anything within 30m gets 10 points.... that's a lot of damage. BUT. Take into account that the missile NEEDs to be TAG'ed or NARC'ed to it's target. If the guidance is lost, it misses it's intended target. Personally, how I would see this working would be with a Ballistic Missile Launch arc. If the lock is lost on ascension, the missile is lost. If the lock is lost on the descending flight path, it makes no adjustments and just lands wherever it lands.

[Dirus Nigh]

In TT the arrow 4 did damage in two ways. It could directly target a mech or vehicle for 20 points of damage to one location, or it did area damage as with normal artillery rules. 20 points of cluster damage to enemy units in the hex it hit, and 10 point cluster damage to adjacent hexes. Cluster damage was given out in five point hits.

An arrow 4 missile could target an individual mech with a spotting unit using TAG, or if the target was in LOS of the firing unit, and beyond min range.

[Sug]

People complain about normal LRMs. We don't need guided one shot kills in this game.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Sug, on 13 April 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

People complain about normal LRMs. We don't need guided one shot kills in this game.

One shot kills? It's basically an indirect only missile version of the AC/20 that requires a successful TAG designation. Successful being a maintained designation from the time the missile (not the firer) acquires the TAG after it is launched to impact. TAG is the only way to guide an Arrow IV Homing Missile, LOS just means a 'Mech can TAG its own targets. The missle must still be launched before a target for it can be TAG'd. All other surface to surface Arrow IV missiles are unguided artillery fired at a location and not a unit. The only ammo the IS has access to currently is area saturation (splash) and homing (no splash). Area saturation is equivalent to a single shell or bomb for an artillery or air strike which does half damage. This ammo type is also unguided, must be fired at a location (coodinates) not a unit, and has a good chance to scatter in a random direction to a significant degree. It is a 15 ton, 15 critical, 10 heat, 5 shot per ton monstrosity with limited application on the maps we currently have. Neither ammo type is by any means a one hit kill weapon unless you pilot a stock Locust 1S and take a CT hit.

I am all for the Arrow IV, but the catch as I have always maintained is it requires critical location splitting to mount and PGI has so far maintained a firm "No" stance on the subject of crit splitting. It also requires some rather sophisticated mechanics.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 13 April 2014 - 12:04 PM.

[McQueen]

I was thinking that increasing the damage would make up for the really low ammo count and the weight sacrificed to mount the weapon. I hadn't thought about it being NARC homing. in tabletop the missiles could only be guided by tag. Bring the damage back down to the original values with more ammo per ton wouldn't have the same scary artillery strike feel to it. Maybe 40 damage for the guided and 15 damage per bomblet would work better?

SilverStarDragon, on 12 April 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

If the missile had a more restricted range, like the 300m minimum and a maximum of 700m, than normal lrms and had a form of splash damage at the cost of reduced accuracy, I could see it working. The splash damage so a mech just doesn't get 50 damage straight on but have it more spread out and evade-able, but I guess that would make it more like a lock-able artillery cannon. ( restriction due to power and so it cant be paired with ssrms as your original suggestion was 220m)

Hope the arrow IV gets put in-game at some point!

A 300 meter minimum range does sound more reasonable given your argument about overlap with streak range. I disagree with the max range limit. It is an artillery weapon that had a 2550 meter (five maps) range in the table top. I guess that would be an acceptable max range.

One missile doing a lot of damage over a shorter range sounds more like the thunderbolt missiles from Solaris area fights.

[Mordin Ashe]

A missile that could do lets say 25 damage in medium range bracket without being countered by AMS? YES! My Raven would flip its wings with joy.

[SockSlayer]

Arrow oh arrow, where art thou? In 2022? Still not here.

[simon1812]

arrow should be in the game (inferno missiles as well), I just love variety, I dont think it would be too powerful, it would still be vulnerable to AMS, so not the be all do all kinda weapon by any extend.

[KursedVixen]

Nathan Foxbane, on 13 April 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

One shot kills? It's basically an indirect only missile version of the AC/20 that requires a successful TAG designation. Successful being a maintained designation from the time the missile (not the firer) acquires the TAG after it is launched to impact. TAG is the only way to guide an Arrow IV Homing Missile, LOS just means a 'Mech can TAG its own targets. The missle must still be launched before a target for it can be TAG'd. All other surface to surface Arrow IV missiles are unguided artillery fired at a location and not a unit. The only ammo the IS has access to currently is area saturation (splash) and homing (no splash). Area saturation is equivalent to a single shell or bomb for an artillery or air strike which does half damage. This ammo type is also unguided, must be fired at a location (coodinates) not a unit, and has a good chance to scatter in a random direction to a significant degree. It is a 15 ton, 15 critical, 10 heat, 5 shot per ton monstrosity with limited application on the maps we currently have. Neither ammo type is by any means a one hit kill weapon unless you pilot a stock Locust 1S and take a CT hit.

I am all for the Arrow IV, but the catch as I have always maintained is it requires critical location splitting to mount and PGI has so far maintained a firm "No" stance on the subject of crit splitting. It also requires some rather sophisticated mechanics.

only if the clans get it too like on the NAGA