91 replies to this topic

[martian]

Brizna, on 19 October 2022 - 04:17 AM, said:

I think Spider Anansi is quite unbeatable at worst mech in the game, some way too fast omnimechs are competitors though.

I would rather have Spider "Anansi" with:

• two energy hardpoints
  
• two ballistic hardpoints
  
• one missile hardpoint
  
• a pair of AMS mounts

... than SDR-5V Spider with just a pair of CT-placed energy hardpoints.

[foamyesque]

martian, on 18 October 2022 - 09:00 AM, said:

Missile Catapults in MWO are not even quirked specifically for LRMs - they are quirked for "missiles". Actually, some of them are quirked for SRMs or MRMs.

So it is the player's choice if he arms his Catapult with LRMs, MRMs, SRMs or Streak SRMs.

That's true, but the C1 in particular just has two missile hardpoints, which means you need the biggest bang you can get out of each. That means either LRMs or MRMs, both of which work really well, but the LRMs actually do IMO benefit more from the quirks than MRMs do -- both the sensor range and extra UAV help long range or indirect fire more than they do an MRM's more short-mid direct fire wheelhouse.

It's just a very nice platform in general, really. It's mobile, low-profile but with mounts at cockpit height, and has good gunnery quirks and a couple of nice utility ones. Very regularly puts in work for me.

[martian]

foamyesque, on 21 October 2022 - 11:53 AM, said:

That's true, but the C1 in particular just has two missile hardpoints, which means you need the biggest bang you can get out of each. That means either LRMs or MRMs, both of which work really well, but the LRMs actually do IMO benefit more from the quirks than MRMs do -- both the sensor range and extra UAV help long range or indirect fire more than they do an MRM's more short-mid direct fire wheelhouse.

It's just a very nice platform in general, really. It's mobile, low-profile but with mounts at cockpit height, and has good gunnery quirks and a couple of nice utility ones. Very regularly puts in work for me.

Running a pair of SRMs or Streaks is not enough. In higher Tiers you can not often expect to get reliable locks for LRMs. Thus, MRMs can be the right choice for some players. Of course, if you like LRMs, run them on your Catapult.

In my opinion the Catapult is neither the most powerful 'Mech, nor the worst 'Mech in the game.

[Dr Wubs]

foamyesque, on 21 October 2022 - 11:53 AM, said:

That's true, but the C1 in particular just has two missile hardpoints, which means you need the biggest bang you can get out of each. That means either LRMs or MRMs, both of which work really well, but the LRMs actually do IMO benefit more from the quirks than MRMs do -- both the sensor range and extra UAV help long range or indirect fire more than they do an MRM's more short-mid direct fire wheelhouse.

It's just a very nice platform in general, really. It's mobile, low-profile but with mounts at cockpit height, and has good gunnery quirks and a couple of nice utility ones. Very regularly puts in work for me.

It has two giant Mickey Mouse ears that people know to target and turn the rest of the mech into a walking commercial for zombie mechs.

The redeeming quality of the catapult are the builds that can function with the ears blown off.

Edited by Dr Wubs, 22 October 2022 - 10:18 AM.

[JediPanther]

Dr Wubs, on 22 October 2022 - 10:17 AM, said:

It has two giant Mickey Mouse ears that people know to target and turn the rest of the mech into a walking commercial for zombie mechs.

The redeeming quality of the catapult are the builds that can function with the ears blown off.

Which makes it a great tank with lasers and ams. I've tanked more in the c1 than I have the atlas.

[Magnus Santini]

The criteria that make for a worst mech to me are (1) too few hardpoints, (2) enough hardpoints but only one of every kind so less useful at any range, or (3) light mech with missile hardpoints so it is ammo handicapped. Also, (4) overgrown target hardpoints like the Cicada's legs.

[martian]

Magnus Santini, on 22 October 2022 - 04:17 PM, said:

The criteria that make for a worst mech to me are (1) too few hardpoints,...

I think that the location of hardpoints is as important - maybe even more important - as the number of hardpoints.

If you have hardpoints in CT and H, there is not much what you can do with them:

• Having a pair of energy hardpoints in arm or side torso? Good, you can carry a pair of large lasers, PPCs, etc.
  
• Having a pair of energy hardpoints in CT? Enjoy your SDR-5V Spider.

[Dr Wubs]

JediPanther, on 22 October 2022 - 01:20 PM, said:

Which makes it a great tank with lasers and ams. I've tanked more in the c1 than I have the atlas.

I'm OK with anybody who doesn't turn catapults into all LRMS all the time.

[foamyesque]

martian, on 21 October 2022 - 08:53 PM, said:

Running a pair of SRMs or Streaks is not enough.

That would be why I didn't mention them; with just two missile hardpoints only LRMs or MRMs have useful throw weights. Technically an SRM6 is about the same damage as an LRM15 in a lighter and more compact package, but in actual practice, the LRMs are significantly more effective.

Quote

In higher Tiers you can not often expect to get reliable locks for LRMs

There's a lot of ECM out there, it's true. But otherwise you should get your own locks, and the boosted sensor range and extra UAV are both handy there. Plus actually engaging in direct fire.

Dr Wubs, on 22 October 2022 - 10:17 AM, said:

It has two giant Mickey Mouse ears that people know to target and turn the rest of the mech into a walking commercial for zombie mechs.

The redeeming quality of the catapult are the builds that can function with the ears blown off.

Yeah, the arm mounts are vulnerable, and losing a launcher (or both) certainly hurts, but the 'pult can wriggle damage pretty well across the torsos, and if you're taking that much heat, you've got the option to try and fade and do IDF. Or, you know, you still have four torso-mounted energy hardpoints, which won't win you a fight one-on-one but have enough punch to contribute respectably to your overall damage output, give lights trying to knock over the back line a bit of resistance, focus damage on particular weakened components, and so on. Drill and fill, poptart, leech locks, dumbfire the LRMs, lots of options, and you've got the speed, jump capability, and armour to respond to battlefield developments appropriately. And you can even twist reasonably well, bar the bunny ears.

And even, to be honest, the bunny ears aren't as bad I think as people make 'em out to be, because relative to the giant arm hitboxes of most mechs they're actually smaller, they're closely mounted to the cockpit, you're potentially doing IDF anyway, and the mech is physically kind of short for its tonnage so they don't actually stick up *that* much above you; you can hide in fairly small dips in the terrain. And they're *arms*, so losing one is a lot less crippling than some other 'mechs protrusions, like the Blood Asp or Timber Wolf, which are *torsos*.

Statistically there's a few other mechs I do better with, and I don't claim it to be a top-tier mech or anything, but I find I really enjoy the play.

[Weeny Machine]

Huginn - hands down. You have no range and alpha to speak of nor is your DPS good...that means you need a looooong uptime on an enemy. Utter trash.

Grid Iron isn't hot either. 1 Gauss isn't too bad but the hardpoints for backup weapons are at balls height and in so many situations just useless. And if you want to take an AC you can take the G variant

Edited by Weeny Machine, 23 October 2022 - 05:38 AM.

[caravann]

Adder takes the spotlight
The Adder is limited to big guns

Cougar has been and can be great since it's a mech with a little of everything.
The cougar has all from headshot/pepperbox to lrm,flamer, cannon.

Panther is slow and average in armor and it has no good missile slots.

Javelin is a great harasser and they're made to soften or finish a target but never to be the hammer.

Kintaro is on paper a good mech but as common on paper is what caused the downfall of the star league.
The kintaro need jumpjets to shine, as now it's a mediocre mech worse since there are better srm mediums.

Ice ferret is not a bad mech, Ice ferret is an achievement just like traveling in an utbanmech with the standard engine.

[martian]

foamyesque, on 23 October 2022 - 02:18 AM, said:

That would be why I didn't mention them; with just two missile hardpoints only LRMs or MRMs have useful throw weights. Technically an SRM6 is about the same damage as an LRM15 in a lighter and more compact package, but in actual practice, the LRMs are significantly more effective.

SRMs are better on Catapults that either are quirked for them or that can boat them in greater numbers (or both).

Anyway, I do not think that the Catapult should be placed among "the worst 'Mechs in MWO".

[Curccu]

foamyesque, on 23 October 2022 - 02:18 AM, said:

There's a lot of ECM out there, it's true. But otherwise you should get your own locks, and the boosted sensor range and extra UAV are both handy there. Plus actually engaging in direct fire.

People tend to understand how cover works in T1 also thus having that enemy long enough in LOS to get lock shoot missiles and maybe get them hit it before it disappears, specially fun because 100% radar derp is so easily achievable nowdays.

Weeny Machine, on 23 October 2022 - 05:36 AM, said:

Huginn - hands down. You have no range and alpha to speak of nor is your DPS good...that means you need a looooong uptime on an enemy. Utter trash.

Grid Iron isn't hot either. 1 Gauss isn't too bad but the hardpoints for backup weapons are at balls height and in so many situations just useless. And if you want to take an AC you can take the G variant

Huginn and GI were both unique way good when they were uber quirked back in the day, not OP but good, sadly PGI likes to nerf stuff back to mechbay only to collect dust.

caravann, on 23 October 2022 - 10:29 AM, said:

Adder takes the spotlight
The Adder is limited to big guns

adr-b 5xMPL Pretty good.
adr-cn 2xUAC5 with stupidly good quirks, pretty good.
adr-a UAC20 and stuff well not something I would really call good but can carry its weight and surprise enemies by blasting them with UAC20 from small mech.

[foamyesque]

Curccu, on 23 October 2022 - 12:58 PM, said:

People tend to understand how cover works in T1 also thus having that enemy long enough in LOS to get lock shoot missiles and maybe get them hit it before it disappears, specially fun because 100% radar derp is so easily achievable nowdays.

Takes about the same time as the ERML burn and nobody's out there saying that T1 cover play negates lasers

[martian]

foamyesque, on 23 October 2022 - 09:09 PM, said:

Takes about the same time as the ERML burn and nobody's out there saying that T1 cover play negates lasers

You must also add the time that LRMs need to reach their target. Enemy 'Mech can hide behind cover before LRMs arrive.
Outrunning LRMs is also possible.

[Curccu]

foamyesque, on 23 October 2022 - 09:09 PM, said:

Takes about the same time as the ERML burn and nobody's out there saying that T1 cover play negates lasers

Rolls eyes....

Lasers start doing damage to enemy about 0 milliseconds after you point reticle to target and fire.
About same time is used to get that lock and now you can push the button and missiles start flying while enemy is already getting back to cover. With good cover like tall building LRM user deals zero damage in this situation, while lazors do full damage... See the difference?

[Pika]

The worst 'mech in the game is whatever one I'm in when I am killed after doing something dumb.

That way I can pass the blame onto someone\thing else. >.>

[Pixel Hunter]

caravann, on 23 October 2022 - 10:29 AM, said:

Adder takes the spotlight
The Adder is limited to big guns

I kind of like my Tag and LRM adder. high mount tag, missile hands. choose if you want extra ammo, a larger tag or ERmed lasers instead of smalls. my "I wanna shoot LRM's but don't wanna tie up tonnage" mech

[martian]

Pixel Hunter, on 24 October 2022 - 06:37 PM, said:

I kind of like my Tag and LRM adder. high mount tag, missile hands. choose if you want extra ammo, a larger tag or ERmed lasers instead of smalls. my "I wanna shoot LRM's but don't wanna tie up tonnage" mech

I have seen some people running the Puma as Streakboat.

[crazytimes]

Pixel Hunter, on 24 October 2022 - 06:37 PM, said:

I kind of like my Tag and LRM adder. high mount tag, missile hands. choose if you want extra ammo, a larger tag or ERmed lasers instead of smalls. my "I wanna shoot LRM's but don't wanna tie up tonnage" mech

The only true Adder is the UAC20 Adder. All other Adder are imposters.

It was hours of fun at tier 4 and 3 many years ago. It is absolutely not viable where I am at now... but I still dust it off every now and again.