19 replies to this topic

[Cyborne Elemental]

Why does the Urbanmech have more armor and structure than a 60 ton heavy?

I get the whole.. S-PPC meta. AC20 + splash infinite ammo deal.

But this is so far removed from what Urbies were intended to be on the field.

Never seen a mech get mis-used like this since the days of Victor-DS and Highlander-HM Gauss+2 ERPPC meta...

Actually its worse, because now we have flying ECM splash SPPC heavy 30 tonners with bad hitreg

Edited by The Trojan Titan, 19 October 2022 - 03:29 AM.

[PocketYoda]

Mini Atlas FTW.

[martian]

The Trojan Titan, on 19 October 2022 - 01:26 AM, said:

Why does the Urbanmech have more armor and structure than a 60 ton heavy?

I get the whole.. S-PPC meta. AC20 + splash infinite ammo deal.

But this is so far removed from what Urbies were intended to be on the field.

Never seen a mech get mis-used like this since the days of Victor-DS and Highlander-HM Gauss+2 ERPPC meta...

Actually its worse, because now we have flying ECM splash SPPC heavy 30 tonners with bad hitreg

Champion "Invictus"
402 points - maximum armor capacity
108 points - armor bonuses from the 'Mech quirks
510 points - armor total (fully armored 'Mech)

207 points - internal structure

TOTAL: 717 hit points


UrbanMech "Street Cleaner"
210 points - maximum armor capacity
104 points - armor bonuses from the 'Mech quirks
314 points - armor total (fully armored 'Mech)

111 points - internal structure

TOTAL: 425 hit points

Unless I have missed something, it seems to me that the UrbanMech has 292 hit points less than the Champion.

I did not count skill nodes, since not every player can unlock them (especially on a brand new 'Mech with zero XP) or wants to unlock them.

[Meep Meep]

The urbies are comparable to some mediums on total armor but even the flimsiest heavy has more usually by a lot. Jenners get more armor now than urbies. I think the wolfhounds got some stout armor buffs too that have them surpass the urbies.

[Curccu]

The Trojan Titan, on 19 October 2022 - 01:26 AM, said:

But this is so far removed from what Urbies were intended to be on the field.

What is that?

[Meep Meep]

Lore wise urbies were slow urban gunboats meant to quell civil unrest or go after the more well equipped criminal elements. Some didn't even have any armor since the opponents they usually faced didn't have the weapons capacity to dent their structure. You don't have to move all that fast to mg down a street full of violent rioters or blow up the stolen apc or tank the criminals were using. Iirc the only urbies that saw regular combat vs real battlemechs were the clan variants and a handful on the IS side.

Which brings up the eternal question. Where are our clan urbies pgi?

Edited by Meep Meep, 19 October 2022 - 03:34 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

This is left over from launch of the Urbies, never have I seen any mech coddled and loved as much as the Urbie, its a unicorn in its defensive buffs.

[Rondoe]

I had an urbie in my sights the other day, had him dead to rights, unleashed my alpha and it kept merrily running away shooting me in the face.

Looked like the whole volley just went through him and exploded on the cliff behind. That alpha should have smote his ruin on the mountainside, lol.

Tough little trashcans indeed!

[Cyborne Elemental]

Rondoe, on 20 October 2022 - 06:49 AM, said:

I had an urbie in my sights the other day, had him dead to rights, unleashed my alpha and it kept merrily running away shooting me in the face.

Looked like the whole volley just went through him and exploded on the cliff behind. That alpha should have smote his ruin on the mountainside, lol.

Tough little trashcans indeed!

Tough, and you have to lead most lights.. Because.. hitreg. Especially with lasers.

[martian]

The Trojan Titan, on 21 October 2022 - 07:08 PM, said:

Tough, and you have to lead most lights.. Because.. hitreg. Especially with lasers.

Are my numbers above correct?

Does the Urbanmech have more armor and structure than a 60 ton heavy?

[Cyborne Elemental]

martian, on 21 October 2022 - 08:27 PM, said:

Are my numbers above correct?

Does the Urbanmech have more armor and structure than a 60 ton heavy?

I was making a generalization, you take it literally.

Ok fair enough, lets compare it against a light medium or any other 30-35 ton light, you pick, CLAN or IS, in fact how about you make a nice spreadsheet so we all know the facts.

Oh and toss in ECM mechs too.

Edited by The Trojan Titan, 21 October 2022 - 09:58 PM.

[martian]

The Trojan Titan, on 21 October 2022 - 09:56 PM, said:

I was making a generalization, you take it literally.

Sorry, since you opened your rant with it, I thought it was important for you. Thus, I posted the actual verifiable numbers.

The Trojan Titan, on 21 October 2022 - 09:56 PM, said:

Ok fair enough, lets compare it against a light medium or any other 30-35 ton light, you pick, CLAN or IS, in fact how about you make a nice spreadsheet so we all know the facts.

Why should I? If "you" wish to prove something, then "you" ought create your spreadsheets and post them.

The Trojan Titan, on 19 October 2022 - 01:26 AM, said:

But this is so far removed from what Urbies were intended to be on the field.

Could you post some more info?

[Cyborne Elemental]

"But this is so far removed from what Urbies were intended to be on the field"

martian, on 21 October 2022 - 10:20 PM, said:

Could you post some more info?

Ok, let me put it this way.
When the Urban Mech came out, it was right about when the clan invasion hit.
ERPPCx2 + Gauss and 2 CLPL+6 CERML was the meta.

Faction play was just starting up.
Gameplay balance was not in a good place on either side of the fence.

The only ECM mechs on the field were the Spider, Commando, Raven, Griffin, and Atlas-D-DC on IS side.
Clans with ECM, were Kitfox, Myst-Lynx, Shadowcat, HellBringer.

Then landed a 35 ton mech, with a GM-60 standard engine and a little less armor and structure as a Blackjack, it packed an AC-10 with 23 shells and 1 small laser, and moved at 44 kph.

Tweaked up with XL engines, endo-steel, a handful of decent builds were competition to fight off 1 or 2 medium mechs.
JJ's had just been nerfed across the board, so it was no poptart uber-light.

And those of us who actually used them in games, viewed them as prestige mechs.
Total underdog for a light of its class, it was an achievement in itself to survive a match, let alone get a kill or two.

It was a mech at the time, that took a lot of effort and skill to be good with.
So any victory in an urban mech was like winning the lottery.

And when I saw... wow we have an ECM Urby flying around crushing.. well everything, just because of 2 shortrange PPC's.

It felt a little like a slap in the face.

It seemed everyone and their 90 year old grandparents could just hop in a UM-R80 and dominate the field like it was nothing.

Honestly, I'm not all that happy with the Snub-PPC nerf either, but mechs like the UrbanMech really do not fit the PPC meta.

Edited by The Trojan Titan, 22 October 2022 - 06:44 AM.

[martian]

The Trojan Titan, on 22 October 2022 - 06:41 AM, said:

"But this is so far removed from what Urbies were intended to be on the field"

Ok, let me put it this way.
When the Urban Mech came out, it was right about when the clan invasion hit.
ERPPCx2 + Gauss and 2 CLPL+6 CERML was the meta.

Faction play was just starting up.
Gameplay balance was not in a good place on either side of the fence.

The only ECM mechs on the field were the Spider, Commando, Raven, Griffin, and Atlas-D-DC on IS side.
Clans with ECM, were Kitfox, Myst-Lynx, Shadowcat, HellBringer.

Then landed a 35 ton mech, with a GM-60 standard engine and a little less armor and structure as a Blackjack, it packed an AC-10 with 23 shells and 1 small laser, and moved at 44 kph.

Tweaked up with XL engines, endo-steel, a handful of decent builds were competition to fight off 1 or 2 medium mechs.
JJ's had just been nerfed across the board, so it was no poptart uber-light.

Thanks for your memories of the shape of the game as it was 8 years ago. But we are not in 2014, we are in 2022, almost in 2023.

You opinion on "what Urbies were intended to be on the field" may be different from the opinion of other players.

The Trojan Titan, on 22 October 2022 - 06:41 AM, said:

And those of us who actually used them in games, viewed them as prestige mechs.
Total underdog for a light of its class, it was an achievement in itself to survive a match, let alone get a kill or two.

It was a mech at the time, that took a lot of effort and skill to be good with.
So any victory in an urban mech was like winning the lottery.

Do you know why there has been more than one year of the PGI's / Cauldron's effort that encompassed 'Mech stats, 'Mech quirks and weapon stats adjustments?

To make sure that there will be no "Total underdogs" and that no matter what 'Mech you take, you will have a reasonable opportunity to achieve success. In other words, that there will no 'Mechs that would feel that being successful is "like winning the lottery".

Of course, there are still some weak 'Mechs such as SDR-5V, but the majority of 'Mechs has gained some viability, UrbanMech included.

The Trojan Titan, on 22 October 2022 - 06:41 AM, said:

And when I saw... wow we have an ECM Urby flying around crushing.. well everything, just because of 2 shortrange PPC's.

It felt a little like a slap in the face.

It seemed everyone and their 90 year old grandparents could just hop in a UM-R80 and dominate the field like it was nothing.

UrbanMech is a light 'Mech. It is vulnerable, especially to pinpoint weapons, pulse lasers, Streak SRMs and many other weapons available in MWO.

If you see it, you can hit it. ECM does not protect against Autocannons, Gauss Rifles, lasers, PPCs, SRMs or MRMs.

UrbanMech carries limited armor and it has limited internal structure, as I demonstrated above in my first post.

The Trojan Titan, on 22 October 2022 - 06:41 AM, said:

Honestly, I'm not all that happy with the Snub-PPC nerf either, but mechs like the UrbanMech really do not fit the PPC meta.

The Snub-Nose PPC has been toned down recently. Depending on how it will work, Snub-Nose PPCs might be adjusted even further. 'Mech quirks could be adjusted too.

Also, "mechs like the UrbanMech really do not fit the PPC meta" is just your opinion:

• any loadout, that the game client lets you deploy in the game with, is a valid loadout. MWO players are free to customize their 'Mechs, arming their 'Mechs with all kinds of PPCs included.
  
• It is not like various PPCs are a rare thing on a light 'Mech. For example, Puma Prime carries a pair of Clan Extended range PPCs. The Inner Sphere has PNT-9R / PNT-10K/ PNT-12K Panther, etc.

Why should be just UrbanMech excluded from carrying PPCs?

Edited by martian, 22 October 2022 - 08:42 AM.

[Meep Meep]

Didn't some guy in an urbie disguised as a house win a solaris 7 match with a ppc in the books? Foe was a kitfox I think.

[martian]

Meep Meep, on 22 October 2022 - 01:26 PM, said:

Didn't some guy in an urbie disguised as a house win a solaris 7 match with a ppc in the books? Foe was a kitfox I think.

Sadly, there is only a minimum amount of the BattleTech lore in MWO.

[Curccu]

The Trojan Titan, on 21 October 2022 - 07:08 PM, said:

Tough, and you have to lead most lights.. Because.. hitreg. Especially with lasers.

Nope not since HSR was implemented, maybe you got very unstable connection?

The Trojan Titan, on 22 October 2022 - 06:41 AM, said:

And when I saw... wow we have an ECM Urby flying around crushing.. well everything, just because of 2 shortrange PPC's.

Looks like you missed light ppc meta before snubbies got uberbuffed. and with urbie without ECM because it wasn't released at that point yet.

The Trojan Titan, on 22 October 2022 - 06:41 AM, said:

It seemed everyone and their 90 year old grandparents could just hop in a UM-R80 and dominate the field like it was nothing.

I would like to see T5 player playing poptart urbie as 99 percentile player.

[Cyborne Elemental]

What is HSR?

Lasers don't feel any different against fast moving lights or even slower targets, even when you catch a mech at a good position and get a full burn in.
Hitscan got fixed? or improved? and when?

Edited by The Trojan Titan, 24 October 2022 - 03:51 AM.

[Gagis]

The Trojan Titan, on 24 October 2022 - 03:50 AM, said:

What is HSR?

Host State Rewind, the system by which the server figures out what actually happened back in time when you were trying to shoot and whether you would have hit something if there had been no latency. It works rather well, leaving you able to play by what you see without needing to lead for ping or anything. It does a good job compensating for latency.

It isn't magic however, so if your internet connection has a lot of packet loss, there is nothing any online game can do to help your suffering. With enough packet loss you cannot comfortably play any real-time game.

In short: Latency can be solved. Packet loss ruins your ability to play games no matter what.

Edited by Gagis, 24 October 2022 - 03:56 AM.

[martian]

The Trojan Titan, on 24 October 2022 - 03:50 AM, said:

What is HSR?

Lasers don't feel any different against fast moving lights or even slower targets, even when you catch a mech at a good position and get a full burn in.
Hitscan got fixed? or improved? and when?

Read this:

Piranha Games Inc. said:

Host State Rewind (HSR):

This new system allows players with high latency pings to fire and hit more reliably using Lasers, Machine Guns, and Flamers. Often referred to as the lag shield effect, HSR will significantly improve the reliability and accuracy of weapon hit detection, making certain BattleMechs much easier to hit. We anticipate overall damage will increase, resulting in some possible upcoming weapon balancing changes if needed.

... since 2013.