44 replies to this topic

[Yanlowen Cage]

Ok. Ok. Absolutely positive this has been discussed before. But... the more you pay into this game, the more you will profit from this game. Not pay to win per drop mind you. But a slow power creep over time. Now we all know this. what with premium time and such. but hey it's not a whole lot right?
WRONG! goofing around on my tablet waiting for a drop when I came across a video. It was entitled "the best way to earn C-bills in MWO" The video explained how to increase your C-bills. And basically it boiled down to using real money to purchase C-bill boosting stuff. The player used the following.
Premium time, tournament supporter pack, hero mech, and special cockpit items. Now not sure about the cockpit item, but everything else is paid for. Coming (in the video) to a 100% C-bill boost. Now that may not strike a cord with you, but think about it.
If I play with this config for money making vs. a standard no bonus load out. I can (but not very effectively) earn C-bills by spamming arty and air strikes for more damage and such and killing more enemy. Plus A uav with all it's spotting bonuses which is an even better money earner. Now because I had the extra spam in arty, uav, and air I am losing 120k C-bills but I am in turn normally returning double my C-bill total. In the video The player further Known as X because it is easy. made 562k cbills. Meaning unaided he would have cleared 281k unaided by boosts. Now subtract the 120k for consumables and a non boosted mech would have cleared say 161k. but with the boost minus the 120k he would still clear 442k C-bills! Now this was a conquest map and they do pay better than most game modes, but... Due to how the money mechanic works X would be earning on average double to 5 times as much as a standard non boosted loadout. Which allows him to pay for more weapons, chassis' and such much more quickly. and to further that point allowing him ti build more meta based mechs to harvest even more c-bills by using longer lasting and more meta-ish builds. You can follow where this leads on your own I will not go any further that way.
Now in this age of spamming arty and such a average C-bill haul of say 120K can be wiped out by just trying to remain competitive with 120K of consumables. while the boosted mech will Always (well almost always) make a sizable profit. This becomes very apparent when you play (run hot or die) builds where you almost have to run cool shots to use them effectively. As there is no return other than the cooling in actual C-bills.

Anyway don't care. Just point out that those people using the paid for C-bill boot items will have large and more powerful stables much quicker than those who don't or can't not pay for those perks. In many examples (from personal experience) I have seen players that buy packs all the time and other such things stacking up massive amounts of cbills due to these boosts. And these players are not always that good.

Again don't care, just saw the video and went (well damn).

[Aidan Crenshaw]

The video is more about the ingame achievments and actions that will impact your cbill score at the end of a match. +30% Mechs, TSP and items enhance this of course, up to 50%.

[gooddragon2]

Cbills can't win you a match though.

[Bombast]

'Pay to go faster' is one of the most prevalent F2P business models there is. I'm kind of shocked it took you this long, and required a video for you to notice.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

A free to play player can still afford the 120 hit to each match through spamming consumables though. Its not like in World of Tanks where you buy premium ammo that is flat out superior to the enemy's ammo types and you'd end up in deep negatives per match if you spam it if you bought it with the ingame currency instead of real money.

[El Bandito]

Bombast, on 09 January 2018 - 05:20 AM, said:

'Pay to go faster' is one of the most prevalent F2P business models there is. I'm kind of shocked it took you this long, and required a video for you to notice.

C-Bill consumables are still on the shady side though, as people with PT at lower ranks will have no issue spamming them and getting paid at the same time. And consumables can make big difference in performance. I once did 900 damage within 2 minutes into the match, thanks to a well placed arty.

Dakota1000, on 09 January 2018 - 05:24 AM, said:

A free to play player can still afford the 120 hit to each match through spamming consumables though. Its not like in World of Tanks where you buy premium ammo that is flat out superior to the enemy's ammo types and you'd end up in deep negatives per match if you spam it if you bought it with the ingame currency instead of real money.

Only if the player is above average in skill. And even 120K is not enough to purchase 4 consumables per match. When you see how much of an impact consumables make, and when you realize than you can spend up to 640,000 C-Bills per FP match, you will see how much of a barrier these C-Bill consumables are, and how they further widens the gap between veterans and newbies.

I am personally against consumables, but since I am a tryhard I use them every match.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 January 2018 - 05:31 AM.

[Nik Reaper]

Yeah, you have to keep in mind that this is a F2P game, so this is how they monetize a side from mech packs , and in reality it balances out at 3 stages, depending how much winning is the primary objective for you.

Go with 0 consumables for max gain when grinding cbillz ( probly not a hero mech or premium ) , get 1 arty/uav and use sparingly while waiting for max effect ( most people most of the time ) and the full blow out 3 or more when you really just want to win or have everything +cbillz on.

It's not that terrible of a system if you can stomach not winning everything you could potentially win because most of your team is grinding cbills and the enemy team is grinding wins... the not so terrible thing about it is that at any point you can switch gears and play consumable warrior when you grinded what you needed and now want to win more even if you don't get cbill boosters, though if you go over 3 per match you better make them count.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 09 January 2018 - 05:39 AM.

[Bombast]

El Bandito, on 09 January 2018 - 05:26 AM, said:

C-Bill consumables are still on the shady side though, as people with PT at lower ranks will have no issue spamming them and getting paid at the same time. And consumables can make big difference in performance. I once did 900 damage within 2 minutes into the match, thanks to a well placed arty.

No doubt, but I kind of view that as a separate issue.

[l33tworks]

Lol this game is the LEAST p2w game i have ever ever ever seen in the history of evers. Lmfao. Completly free players are treated like royalty and are no worse of on the battlefield than people who have dropped $10000 on the game. I think over 10k mc has been handed out in events too. C bill mechs are 98%:of the time as good or better than heros too.

The only thing you get by paying is pay for interesting things and early acess to things before they get nerfed shortly after cbill release, but hey at least they give cbill players a good month or two of non nerfed content.

In short thank you lucky stars pgi is this generous. Plenty of legitimate things to complain about. This isnt one.

Now log in and buy a free cbill mad cat mk2 and blow up $500 gold dire wolves like they are confetti.

Edited by l33tworks, 09 January 2018 - 05:52 AM.

[El Bandito]

l33tworks, on 09 January 2018 - 05:48 AM, said:

Now log in and buy a free cbill mad cat mk2 and blow up $500 gold dire wolves like they are confetti.

MCII are not available for C-Bills yet. Soon, but not yet.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 January 2018 - 05:55 AM.

[Jonathan8883]

Is there a good consumables guide? I've never really used them.

[Nik Reaper]

Well, the OP does have a point, but it's the fact that you can do better if you have/use money in this day and age is a fact of life, and few are willing to freely provide a leveled playing field without an enter price.

[Hoshi Toranaga]

Sorry definitely not pay2win, just pay2go faster.

You can easily buy any decent mech and meta-build it make c-bills easy. Buy a Griffin 2N or a Hunchy IIC (depending on side) and scout your money up easily...

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

Free to play C-bill farmers:



B2p C-bill farmers:



You get what you pay for.

[Nik Reaper]

Lady Alexandra Cousland, on 09 January 2018 - 06:13 AM, said:

...

You get what you pay for.

Pretty much this, and while an "optimal" play style ( dumping 120~160k per match per mech ) is unsustainable without boosters it's still something you can do for a time if you really want to win, but in all honesty due to the player population, MM and skill rating so many other factors influence a win out side of high organized play ( that effects the smallest part of the population ) it's not a major point and is one most can live with.

It's a torn in the thumb but it's not bleeding so you put up with it...

Edited by Nik Reaper, 09 January 2018 - 06:29 AM.

[Storming Angel]

Its insane how people think pay to grind is pay to win when paying for speeding up the grind is 'winning' especially in a game like this.

A good example of pay to win is having an assault mech on for sale for £75 that goes 120kph with 10E 6B 6M hardpoints with more than enough heatsinks to allow it to basically alpha strike 5+ without overheating. with around 200+ frontal armour everywhere and 100+ backarmour as well.

Yeah an extreme example but it's too show those who just dont understand what pay to win really is.

Also compared to most free to play's this game is very generous to new and free players. most are very stingy when it comes to things like that.

unlike world of tanks or warthunder.

[sycocys]

The consumables issue is an easy solve
- eliminate the MC versions as they are the same anyhow, just convert them over.
- make consumables a slot item with a 1 time purchase like weapons/ammo (per equipped) and tonnage
- add slots to mechs for where they can go ala ecm/ams

no more re-arm costs so they are accessible to all players, and a loadout cost which balances with the rest of the slotted items

and no more whining about how they are too expensive for newbies that don't want to use premium time to use

Edited by sycocys, 09 January 2018 - 06:53 AM.

[gooddragon2]

Nik Reaper, on 09 January 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

Well, the OP does have a point, but it's the fact that you can do better if you have/use money in this day and age is a fact of life, and few are willing to freely provide a leveled playing field without an enter price.

This is one of the reasons that if I should ever make a computer game, the only thing you'll be able to buy for cash is a cosmetic item. And that only to fund development of further games/balancing stuff/etc.

[sycocys]

gooddragon2, on 09 January 2018 - 07:05 AM, said:

This is one of the reasons that if I should ever make a computer game, the only thing you'll be able to buy for cash is a cosmetic item. And that only to fund development of further games/balancing stuff/etc.

I bet you'll only find that route is only sustainable if you have top tier artists and modelers.
Especially in this time frame when people simply don't want to experience the grind in yet another game, cosmetic only will only go so far.

[Jackal Noble]

If you drop or spam air strikes in quickpug you are raging douchebag anyways.