11 replies to this topic

[LunaticRED]

Hello everyone!

I am fairly new to this game, and I have enjoyed it so far, even though I tend to flop over dead in the time it takes for a microwave to oscillate once lest if I am piloting my trusty Centurion.

So far, I have made the stupid decisions of buying a KFX-D, CN9-A and an RFL-8D without looking up what builds I can make in advance. In this post I am however primarily focusing on the RFL-8D, as it is the most expensive purchase I have made so far.

While I was initially drawn to this mech because of its jump jets and rotary autocannons, I find myself quickly destroyed in every battle I participate in whenever I enter a fight. After some forum-sculking, I have found out that mounting XL engines on Inner Sphere battlemechs will make it extremely fragile, as it will flop over dead if any of its three torso sections are destroyed. A light engine, however, only cripples the mech if one side torso is destroyed rather than outright rendering it inoperable. This is especially of interest to me because the RFL-8D is a liability if it loses both of its side torsos anyways.

Now I stand before a daunting, three-pronged ultimatum: Should I replace the included XL 240 with a Light 245, and ditch all of the jump jets in exchange for a half ton of ammunition and some armor or should I simply keep the XL 240 for now? Or should I just abandon this current account because I've made too many poor financial decisions on it and because most of my free premium time went to waste?

I am currently somewhat hesitant to replace the engine because the jump jets were a major selling point for this mech to me and because this purchase could possibly account for yet another financial misstep.

I'd be very thankful for any advice I can get!

[martian]

LunaticRED, on 21 November 2022 - 08:36 AM, said:

In this post I am however primarily focusing on the RFL-8D, as it is the most expensive purchase I have made so far.

While I was initially drawn to this mech because of its jump jets and rotary autocannons, I find myself quickly destroyed in every battle I participate in whenever I enter a fight. After some forum-sculking, I have found out that mounting XL engines on Inner Sphere battlemechs will make it extremely fragile, as it will flop over dead if any of its three torso sections are destroyed. A light engine, however, only cripples the mech if one side torso is destroyed rather than outright rendering it inoperable. This is especially of interest to me because the RFL-8D is a liability if it loses both of its side torsos anyways.

The XL engine is not as bad as you think. The key is using the right tactics: Never be the first - or the only - 'Mech that the enemy team can see.

LunaticRED, on 21 November 2022 - 08:36 AM, said:

Now I stand before a daunting, three-pronged ultimatum: Should I replace the included XL 240 with a Light 245, and ditch all of the jump jets in exchange for a half ton of ammunition and some armor or should I simply keep the XL 240 for now? Or should I just abandon this current account because I've made too many poor financial decisions on it and because most of my free premium time went to waste?

I am currently somewhat hesitant to replace the engine because the jump jets were a major selling point for this mech to me and because this purchase could possibly account for yet another financial misstep.

I'd be very thankful for any advice I can get!

My personal advice before you abandon your account:

1) Keep your XL240 engine for now. I presume that your Rifleman still has Endosteel chassis.

2) Replace your RACs with a pair of LBX-10 autocannons with four tons of ammo. Then add quad ER Medium lasers. You can even keep two jump jets. Add two heat sinks and top up the armor.
Something like this: RFL-8D Rifleman

3) Wait until some enemy 'Mech is within 400-500 metres from you. Fire all your weapons repeatedly until your Rifleman is close to shutdown - then switch to your autocannons only.

Just my attempt to salvage your 'Mech, while keeping the costs down.

[LunaticRED]

I did just discover a huge cache of unclaimed loot bags shortly after this post, so I am probably not ditching this account anytime soon even though most of its premium time went to waste! 500+ MC, if I am not mistaken!

The build you have shown me might work quite well, but it kind of stings having to ditch those RACs, though I suppose it's much better than having a bad mech. I can stick those two guns onto something else down the line, though!

Are there any mechs that play well with rotary autocannons? I'd be very grateful to any reply!

[martian]

LunaticRED, on 21 November 2022 - 09:41 AM, said:

The build you have shown me might work quite well, but it kind of stings having to ditch those RACs, though I suppose it's much better than having a bad mech. I can stick those two guns onto something else down the line, though!

It was just a suggestion - I just attempted to come with a loadout that could help you, while trying to save you some C-Bills thanks keeping your engine and upgrades that you already have.

Use any other loadout that you like.

LunaticRED, on 21 November 2022 - 09:41 AM, said:

Are there any mechs that play well with rotary autocannons? I'd be very grateful to any reply!

There are some 'Mechs that can run RACs more or less successfully. Even your RFL-8D can run RACs. That's not a problem.

But the sad fact is that Rotary Autocannon is not especially great weapon system. You can have some good games with RACs and then you lose to a player who uses a 'Mech armed with better weapons, so to speak.

[LunaticRED]

martian, on 21 November 2022 - 11:48 AM, said:

But the sad fact is that Rotary Autocannon is not especially great weapon system. You can have some good games with RACs and then you lose to a player who uses a 'Mech armed with better weapons, so to speak.

A pity, honestly. I thought it looked quite promising at first, given its absurd theoretical sustained DPS! I suppose the reason why they're considered middling is because of how slow they are to respond?

Are there any other 'mechs that are worth looking into if one wishes to output an absurd number of bullets in someone's general direction, be it Clan or Spheroid?

[martian]

LunaticRED, on 21 November 2022 - 12:25 PM, said:

A pity, honestly. I thought it looked quite promising at first, given its absurd theoretical sustained DPS! I suppose the reason why they're considered middling is because of how slow they are to respond?

Among other things, yes.

Somebody shows up, unloads a huge alpha into your 'Mech, and quickly disappears before your RACs can even start spinning up.

LunaticRED, on 21 November 2022 - 12:25 PM, said:

Are there any other 'mechs that are worth looking into if one wishes to output an absurd number of bullets in someone's general direction, be it Clan or Spheroid?

There are such 'Mechs. Without big thinking:

• Piranha (Clan) - Light - 12 Machine Guns
  
• Dragonfly (Clan) - Medium - 12 Machine Guns
  
• Crusader "Crael" (Inner Sphere) - Heavy - 10 Machine Guns
  
• etc.

But I should warn you that those MG-armed 'Mechs are not as powerful as they might seem.

[LunaticRED]

martian, on 21 November 2022 - 12:52 PM, said:

Among other things, yes.

Somebody shows up, unloads a huge alpha into your 'Mech, and quickly disappears before your RACs can even start spinning up.

So "punch someone as hard as possible before scooting away" is strongly preferred over "inexorably chipping away at their armor at an alarming rate" in the current meta? Does this mean I am way better off with regular ACs, UACs or LB-X ACs than I am with RACs? Another boon I saw in the RFL-8D was its RAC jam cooldown quirk, and it's kind of a pity this thing isn't actually good with the weapons it was intended to wield. You win some, you lose some! I always have my reliable Centurion to fall back on.

martian, on 21 November 2022 - 12:52 PM, said:

There are such 'Mechs. Without big thinking:

• Piranha (Clan) - Light - 12 Machine Guns
  
• Dragonfly (Clan) - Medium - 12 Machine Guns
  
• Crusader "Crael" (Inner Sphere) - Heavy - 10 Machine Guns
  
• etc.

But I should warn you that those MG-armed 'Mechs are not as powerful as they might seem.

I already figured machine gun mechs wouldn't be as good in practice as it is in theory. I did temporarily use HMGs on my KFX-D with the jump jet OmniPods, but I quickly found out they were practically dead weight and ditched them for more SRM ammo instead. I have seen some insane videos where MG Piranhas are used to good effect, but that's probably far beyond my limited newbie capabilities!

[martian]

LunaticRED, on 21 November 2022 - 01:20 PM, said:

So "punch someone as hard as possible before scooting away" is strongly preferred over "inexorably chipping away at their armor at an alarming rate" in the current meta? Does this mean I am way better off with regular ACs, UACs or LB-X ACs than I am with RACs? Another boon I saw in the RFL-8D was its RAC jam cooldown quirk, and it's kind of a pity this thing isn't actually good with the weapons it was intended to wield. You win some, you lose some! I always have my reliable Centurion to fall back on.

The problem is more complicated. It depends on the map, on the terrain, on your skill and the skill of your enemy, on the game mode, etc.

Also, usually you do not fight 1 on 1, but there are more friendly and enemy 'Mechs around.

The higher you move, the more skilled opponents in more optimized 'Mechs you should expect. On the other hand, in lower Tiers some players struggle with the basics and they use all kinds of strange loadouts - so anything goes there.

LunaticRED, on 21 November 2022 - 01:20 PM, said:

I already figured machine gun mechs wouldn't be as good in practice as it is in theory. I did temporarily use HMGs on my KFX-D with the jump jet OmniPods, but I quickly found out they were practically dead weight and ditched them for more SRM ammo instead. I have seen some insane videos where MG Piranhas are used to good effect, but that's probably far beyond my limited newbie capabilities!

Single MG is usually of limited use. With 3-4 MG it starts to get interesting. Boating more MGs means that you are serious with them.

Of course, you need a suitable 'Mech, the right map and a good team. And some skill, of course.

One MG on a slow 'Mech on Alpine Peaks is just wasted tonnage. On the other hand, Dragonfly on some maps can be fun.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I've seen Bushwackers with RACs before, but being lower tonnage, you would probably have to go with a pair of RAC 2s there. Honestly, if you love the Rifleman, just try out other AC combos until you find one you like and do well in. I'm a fan of the AC10 myself and sometimes run a CPLT-K2 with two of them. It works decently most of the time.

As for tactics, builds that can unload mass amounts of damage in the shortest amount of time will pretty much always be the meta. Tactically speaking, it's about dealing the most damage while having the least exposure. That's always going to be the best route to go. But of course you can have a successful match in other builds. The most important thing is to have fun. You don't have to have the "perfect" build to do that.

Your other mechs are not worthless either. The KFX can be used in a number of ways thanks to the omnimech system, though it's designed best as a support role with ECM and AMS hardpoint possibilities. I've also played it as an SRM boat. It's not the most powerful 30 ton clan mech, but it can work in the right scenario. It's not really a knife fighting mech.

The CN9-A has armor quirks that you can take advantage of to make it a bit more tanky than it otherwise would be. You can swap out the LRMs for MRMs or SRMs. Try to use your left arm to shield your mech when your weapons are recycling.

For most IS mechs, you are going to want a LFE. Standard engines are too heavy and rob you of tonnage for firepower while XL engines make it too easy to kill you. A LFE gives the best balance between the two. Losing one side torso isn't lethal, but losing both will kill you. With a standard engine you'd still be alive as long as your CT is intact, but few builds can "zombie" with weapons in the CT, and usually it's just two medium lasers and you're mostly dead already so it's not worth it. The Cent actually was one of the most incredible zombie mechs in the early days but now that survivability doesn't matter as much as it used to.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 09 January 2023 - 05:37 PM.

[MPhoenix]

You can try this Bushwhacker with triple RAC 2’s
https://mwo.nav-alph...188d57c8_BSW-X1

Or this one with double RAC 5’s
https://mwo.nav-alph...55a655e1_BSW-X1

[Void Angel]

LunaticRED, on 21 November 2022 - 01:20 PM, said:

I already figured machine gun mechs wouldn't be as good in practice as it is in theory. I did temporarily use HMGs on my KFX-D with the jump jet OmniPods, but I quickly found out they were practically dead weight and ditched them for more SRM ammo instead. I have seen some insane videos where MG Piranhas are used to good effect, but that's probably far beyond my limited newbie capabilities!

Machine guns are best when boated, because of a kind of economy of scale. Since you don't use heat when firing them, and heat is one of the primary limiting factors in weapons fire (the others being cooldown and range,) boated MGs can deal amazing amounts of damage - in the right situation - because heat buildup simply isn't a factor for most of the 'mech's weapon tonnage. It's not an easy-mode "iwin" button, though; you have to be good at positioning yourself and pick your targets well. Most MG-boating 'mechs have significant drawbacks.

The Piranha -1, for example, is pretty fragile, and has to Sacrifice a Lot to get those 12 HMGs. I'd be MUCH more worried about a PHA-2 putting 82 damage into my rear arcs in literally two seconds.
Other 'mechs generally have similar issues; at the same time, once you get to 4 or so ballistic mounts, machine guns of all types really pick up in effectiveness, and certain builds can feel more oppressive until you get used to fighting them. In certain situations, 'mechs like the Dragonfly Viper can be oppressive bullies, but I don't think MGs are the broken-overpowered weapons some people feel them to be. So while the Crael (poster boy for MG abuse) needs to have all of its durability quirks revoked, I believe that the MG-capable 'mechs we have now aren't truly breaking the game, and that the efficiency of MGs is often overstated.

On the subject of RACs, those fall generally into the category of "dakka," which relies on sustained face time with the enemy. They're not bad weapons, necessarily, but they are difficult to use because of their ramp-up. In order to use RACs effectively, you have to avoid trying to trade with people and instead learn to engage alongside other teammates (preferably brawlers or traditional dakka) who are enough of a threat that the other team isn't likely to shoot at you instead. Engage with a push, or from a position where your target can't fight back or peek at you out of cover, and you'll do well with RACs - but this is much more easily said than done.

Edited by Void Angel, 13 January 2023 - 02:52 PM.

[T B Kind]

A lot of great guidance from some top shelf players.

Surprised that no one mentioned -

never buy anything not on sale. Make a shopping list and wait. Mechs and equipment go for half price at least twice a year. Even mech bays. (more, but I'm to lazy to research)

The MWO streamers on Twitch are the greatest ambassadors of the game. They are a fountain of information, feel free to ask.

A good source of mech recommendations - https://grimmechs.is...im.org/Database

I know you wanted some RAC dakka, but the mech that changed my game . . .
https://mwo.nav-alph...3b51c_HBK-IIC-A
you can alpha everything and it will leave a bruise. You then need to hide and cooldown. It has nice high mounts, but is a bit squishy.

your mileage may vary

Stay cool.