51 replies to this topic

[Sean Lang]

[Curccu]

As much as I want to watch two hour video.... TRANSCRIPT PLEASE someone!

[Meep Meep]

Yeah gonna wait for the summary.

[Meep Meep]

Ah someone listed timestamps in the comment section.

[TheCaptainJZ]

The interview meanders quite a bit but I’ve written down my summary below. Of course this is just my notes and doesn't cover everything said.



0:00 Reminiscing about the timeline of development of MWO/MW5/the studio--high level decisions like supporting consoles for MW5.

• MW5 Designed to be console capable from inception, though not initially worked on.
  
• Hardest problems were RAM on PS4 and Xbox One (base model) and control scheme
  
• MW5 ended up being a better game by being an Epic games exclusive for over a year. That deal gave them time and money to improve it before initial release on Epic and later when it was release on other platforms.
  
• Despite being a controversial decision, it was the right call for the studio and the game ultimately.
  
• In response to those that say a AAA studio should develop MechWarrior games or take over: Russ feels Microsoft would have given (or would give) the MechWarrior license to a bigger studio if they felt it made sense to do so, but in reality, MechWarrior is too niche.

30:00 Challenges for a future MWO2

• MechWarrior has to succeed with its community size.
  
• A lot of people spent a lot of money on MWO over the years. They are “tapped out.”

33:00 Any plans for an online MW experience other than MWO2?

• Russ is actually a little surprised they’ve been able to work on MechWarrior for as many years as they have. He’s happy about it. Relationship with Microsoft is good.
  
• There is another MechWarrior game in the works. But it’s standalone, similar to MW5. Should be formally announced in 2023--could be in the fall.

37:00 Talk of a theoretical MWO2

• More challenging to undertake.
  
• Would need to know they have a license for 5 years once the game is done, but they’ve been able to get extensions so probably not a problem.

41:00 Current MWO

• The assumption that MWO isn’t getting resources because there are higher priorities like MW5 so therefore MWO isn’t getting resources where it should be is “kinda mostly false” according to Russ.
  
• “Sure, there are higher priorities...but, really, MWO is getting the resources that it justifies.”
  
• MWO today makes in a year what it used to make in 6-8 weeks.
  
• If it was a game a larger company had, they would have shut it down 5 years ago.
  
• Costs of resources can be shared with MW5 for any overlap like webdev. MWO has a dedicated customer support staff.
  
• Needs MWO to stay profitable to stay alive. He can justify the expenditures to anyone because it’s bringing in more money than is spent sustaining it currently.
  
• It makes sense to keep it alive and to also foster the wider MW community.
  
• There’s no end date set. Hopefully it stays at its current level for a while—it’s stayed fairly level.

48:00 Staffing

• Some higher turnover from COVID. 10% vs nominal 2%, but not unusual in the industry at that time.
  
• Misses Mark N. Unfortunate loss.
  
• Remaining opening is 3D artist which they have a candidate for.
  
• Daeron and Matt should have a devlog planned for this week. Russ signed off on the plan.
  
• Support is slightly higher than in 2022.
  
• The lower support level isn’t because MWO is an afterthought or that they don’t care about it at all.
  
• Will throwing more money at MWO at this point make it respond? They made less money in 2022 (Crusader) than in 2021. 2020 was also a good year so it’s probably because of COVID, not new content.

55:00 Player numbers and longevity of a niche franchise

• MWO is remarkably resilient in the number of players, but past attempts to grow it were also not very fruitful. MechWarrior is niche.
  
• For any F2P game to exist for 10 years is pretty successful. Its success opened a lot of doors for PGI.
  
• MWO at its peak (Steam release): 8000-9000 concurrent players. In the first 4 years it was more like 4000-5000 concurrent. Lulls were 2500.
  
• Current population levels have been steady for 4-5 years. Dedicated players.

1:05:00 What would you have done differently?

• There have been a lot of ideas thrown about if PGI had done x, y, or z, it would have been more successful. Russ has come to believe there isn’t a pathway where MechWarrior/BattleTech becomes bigger than it is.
  
• Any moment when he thought this could be the time it goes big, it doesn’t. But it’s still a dependable franchise. Their sales are consistent, and projections are very accurate. It’s profitable and justifies the development of the games/DLC.

1:11 If you were to design a MWO2...

• You have to design a game around the size of the MechWarrior community size, not the size you want or dream for the game to get
  
• Average revenue per paying user for MWO was higher than peers. In the game’s heyday it was about $90.
  
• MW5 and MWO are roughly as profitable over their lifetimes but with a F2P game, you have to provide live service which is more expensive.
  
• Having a single player game with PvP isn’t really a good business model either because of live service support (vs F2P where not everyone has to buy the product)
  
• A MWO2 would be so different that you’d have to do a fresh start.
  
• How do you make a MWO2 when people have invested so much into MWO already? And you’re going to tell them they have to lose all that?
  
• The first 2-3 years is where you make the most money and need to make back what you spent to develop the game.
  
• They’ve spent some time starting some MWO2 design plans but stop because there’s not a great way to release it successfully given that so many people have spent so much money on MWO.
  
• There was no practical way to add PvE to MWO because everything was centered around client-server designs.
  
• MW5’s original scope was smaller and grew. BattleTech was similar in that respect.
  
• It would take a couple years to develop. By that point, Russ feels most players would be ready to move on to a new game, that MWO had run its course. You don’t want to fracture the community by keeping the old one running.
  
• Designing a game that might go big would probably require drastic changes that hardcore fans would not approve of. Even MW5 is still designed for hardcore fans. For non fans it’s still complicated. You might end up with something pretty casual. A lot of people would think the design has to be even more accessible than MechAssault was.
  
• Is there anything the fans can do to make it happen? It’s very hard to create MechWarrior fans, at least not that PGI can do.
  
• You have to balance the desires of the hardcore fans while still finding success with new fans.
  
• Would a MWO2 be F2P? That’s an old term now—it would be live service whether you pay upfront or not. The only reason to go totally free to start nowadays is if you think you need that to get the reach.
  
• Would have to look at balance between mech classes again

1:51 What would the Player-base have to do to prove to PGI it should develop a MWO2?

• It’s a fair question but Russ doesn’t really know. He’d have to show a massive interest to EG7 but how do you do that? How do you make projections? If the projections for MWO2 is the same as MWO, probably won’t get the greenlight.
  
• Excitement today is probably not the same as back for the Founders packs.
  
• Even after BattleTech (HBS), MechWarrior 5, MWO’s successes, it never hit the level of popularity to crack the market in a significant way. They were successful for their studios for what they were but it didn’t rise to the level of the 90s it seems.
  
• Is the interest really any higher than it was before or is that bias?
  
• The image of kickstarters is not like it was when the Founder’s program launched. It would almost certainly not generate that level of money.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 10 January 2023 - 12:52 PM.

[SafeScanner]

Very nice podcast very informative looking forward to the devblog


Heres to a Productive and successful 2023 MWO/MW5!

[TheCaptainJZ]

Personally, I don't think there's enough demand for a MWO2 to ever justify the cost to create it. I'd love to see a better version of MWO, but there just isn't enough interest to make it viable.

What made MWO successful at all was the decade of drought and the vision laid out from PGI hit all the right cords with fans. The new mech designs were fantastic improvements. But it still never broke into a mainstream game. They're probably right that if they made it so it appealed to a wider audience, it probably wouldn't feel like MechWarrior anymore.

What could MWO2 offer that is new and appeals to a larger audience? Even if they went a different direction and developed MechAssault 3, I'm not sure it would be a hit on the same level as MechAssault 1 (I'm not sure how much of a hit that was actually, only that it was the top game on XBOX Live until Halo 2 I believe, but that's probably more a reflection of how few games were available online at that time and how few people had it). I don't think MechAssualt 2 did as well comparatively.

[feeWAIVER]

I think MWO2 is not marketable name.. but MechWarrior Galaxies woud be..
Especially if they got some of those MMO devs from LotRO and set out to make a real MMO game with pve, pvp, repair/rearm and an in-game salvage economy.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 10 January 2023 - 01:14 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Ok after using the timestamps to get to the pertinent content I can say it looks like revenue is the major bottleneck to the ongoing development and survival of the game. I think the direct quote is that they make in a year now what they used to make in two months or less. Pop counts are low but good enough and the game itself is fine for the most part and improving. So to me it would seem that if the niche mwo community wants the game to stick around then it might be beneficial to drop a little cash on it each month. Nothing major just maybe the lowest cost mc bundle. If a majority of the active players did that then revenue would skyrocket and so would the chances of the game getting the love we want it to get. Of course if they started doing cash sales more often on wanted stuff then they could certainly draw in more petty purchases. I'd buy a monthly premium account if it was changed to benefit a long term player with tons of cbills and mechs and banked xp who doesn't need or care about the cbill and xp bonus.

[Ryokens leap]

That was akin to watching lil’ Justin Trudeau talk in circle during Canadian Parliament question period.

[Thorqemada]

I played Elden Ring and i find the "Invasion" thing quite interesting.
Could be quite nervewrecking to be on a big map with multimissionobjectives and suddenly a dropship invasion warning comes up and you know its other players (or some hidden fortress opens it gates).

MWO lived on the hype and lets call it not promises but visions/fantasy what could be.
My friends (MMORPG-Vets and DAOC-PvPers) stopped 3 months in and said;"Nah, that thing is an arena action shooter, not a sim/rpg mmo game, we have lost interest in it!"

If you had the fantasy it could be Battletech-EVE (like we hoped for it would not necessarily start as but become over time) it was a giantic failure!!!

And it was obvious 3 months in the 2012 Beta...

The the entrance challenge into MWO is so unbelievable high, even i needed 30 or so matches til i had a slight grasp whats going on.
That is not something you catch players with these days and rightfully so - the Tutorial was attached way late i think years after the start of the open beta and while it is helpful it is also not catching and pretty lifeless, more like a chore than a freshmans adventure.

It did not help that MWO was developed on a high end PC demanding engine.

And over time bad PR multiplied and the entrance challenge for MWO2 is way higher on that side also and not only on the business side.

Imo MWO has to fade out first and disappear some years (3 to 5yrs) b4 you can even think of MWO2 and better name a new studio as developer.

And it can not be a Mouse and Keyboard Skillcrowd game . it needs to be a Console-Controller game which is more true to the nature of piloting a Battlemech anyway and opens the gates for people that are driven away from the momentary gameplay.

You are a Mechpilot and not a Mechgunner - manual aim is a last ditch emergency option and not the reality of future war!!!

Get rid of that attitude!

Battlemechs work like modern tanks and you are a weapon system operator - you are NOT a ww2 gunner!

And a new game should be PvE+PvP (and i like the DAOC and Elden Ring PvP of excusive areas and possible invasions).

Games like Hawken have already proven what does not work - no need to repeat their mistakes again!

And the hook for more Batteltech/Mechwarrior attention that is overlooked is individual characters and heroes of the Battletech Universe that are there in abundance and wait for someone to wake them up.

Batteltechs are cold liefeless machines - tell great emotional storys with great characters and archenemies and catch the fish!

Edited by Thorqemada, 12 January 2023 - 05:18 AM.

[sycocys]

I'd honestly be just happy with an MWO2 that was PVP with a shift towards lance v lance objective play as the primary system of playing.

Even if it was a DLC for MW5 that you had to buy and gave you access to their servers and store - would reduce their development costs substantially, especially if they could build off their server side code for MWO. Should they have to limit at lance v lance only like MW5 I really don't think it would be detrimental to the low population.

[sycocys]

Also I knew the pop was low, but 2-3k'ish concurrent players... there's no reason they should be sticking with 12v12, heck 8v8 is probably too much. Its no wonder why the MM and wait times are what they are if they never scaled back when play counts dropped towards those numbers.

If they even did 8v8 and the new map guy only did as little as move the team drop points away from each other it would be a nice change of pace and shift the game away from deathball skirmish only.

[Bud Crue]

TheCaptainJZ, on 10 January 2023 - 12:48 PM, said:

30:00 Challenges for a future MWO2

• MechWarrior has to succeed with its community size.
  
• A lot of people spent a lot of money on MWO over the years. They are “tapped out.”

As one who has willingly and openly spent more on this game than anyone ever should on anything, I will say that "we are tapped out" because Russ/PGI stopped giving us any reason to spend. I'm not tapped out because MWO is "niche" or has a small community, etc. I'm tapped out because of PGI's various failures (waves and says "Hi" to Chris "keys to the balance kingdom" Lowery and Paul "I'm too tired to deal with CW" Inouye) and it's refusal to engage with its community of supporters until AFTER the game was placed into its current end of life, maintenance mode. PGI did everything they could to drive their "community size" down and now they expect that same community to to keep the game running? Mother fu....!

[Vorpal Puppy]

If PGI wants money, they are going to have to give me something worth spending money on. I bought the freakin' Hatchetman on one of my accounts even though I knew it was going to be a poorly performing mech just to support them. I'm not interested in skins and colors and cosmetic stuff, but I'd drop $100 in a heartbeat if my Hatchetman had melee and could hack the legs off a Flea in CQC.

[feeWAIVER]

There are countless games that don't last 6 months. We're rolling up on 10 years.

MWO is the best pvp game on the market right now.
Mechanically speaking, what other game is going to give you a high ttk and 11 hitboxes on each player?

We need MWO2 or some kind of comparable replacement.
Once MWO is gone, it's over. There's nothing else like this.

So yeah, I hope they can renew their license, and make another game.

Once MWO is gone, it's over. There's nothing else like this.

[crazytimes]

sycocys, on 10 January 2023 - 07:17 PM, said:

Also I knew the pop was low, but 2-3k'ish concurrent players... there's no reason they should be sticking with 12v12, heck 8v8 is probably too much. Its no wonder why the MM and wait times are what they are if they never scaled back when play counts dropped towards those numbers.

The maps and modes are not all suited to 8 by 8 with no matchmaker of any sort other than "3 tier spread" balancing mechs. At least 12 increases the chances of at least one faster mech not piloted by a potato on large map conquests.

Quote

If they even did 8v8 and the new map guy only did as little as move the team drop points away from each other it would be a nice change of pace and shift the game away from deathball skirmish only.

Absolutely any kind of variability in match conditions would be nice. The one thing they had- time of day change- was removed. Apparently start positions are nearly impossible to change even as fixed spots- match by match variability is never on the cards.

[MechB Kotare]

Meh didn't expect anything tbh. Makes sense, although i dont agree that mw/bt (pvp) title is automatically destined to be unpopular. Its the execution of ideas that is mandatory among all else.

New mechwarrior title announcement is nice to hear. I do hope they adress certain issues i had with mw5, like enemy/ally AI or rng elements for example (hated completing long mission just to get perfect laser vomit hbk shot into my head, no matter how much i twisted my torso...) . Also i hope for clans in some way.

Will definitely buy no matter what to show my support.

As for mwo. Only way how to milk more money from my jag is more clan mechs (still waiting for locust iic and turkina). Im sadly not interested in platinum skins. I also would purchase is omni packs.

[The Mech behind you]

So as long as MWO is running, it's very unlikely we'll see a new online mech game because the population or customer base is too small. Maybe there will be a new one developed after MWO dies, maybe. That's how the possibilty about a MWO2 sonded to me. That's sad.

I started playing 10 years ago. I would really like a new MWO after 10 years. Newer graphics, newer technology, new ideas about gameplay. Some problems that appeared over those 10 years or limitations due to the way MWO is build could be overcome.

Russ mentioned trying a different approach about gamelay if we consider playable vehicles and the problems they faced balancing the mech weight classes against each other. That sounds like the way MWLL was build might be a solution to those problems. You don't have to worry about balancing that much if you generate C-Bills during a match. Light mechs are cheaper so they get bought earlier and once the match advances there will be more meds and heavies over time and it would be totally ok that lights are outperformed in battles. They just will be used early into the match because of funding. Also it would make stock builds and simpler loadouts more viable. You could have a 8m C-Bill mech without Endo, FF and that shiny stuff now or you wait till you have those 15m C-Bill for that top build, but you will run into bigger mechs.

Back to MWO2. I personally wouldn't mind to buy my mechs again, though it would be nice if we (former MWO players) could get at least a starter pack for some compensation for giving up our MWO Mechbay. Maybe start with 16 or 20 different mech chassis. Something of the size like the lineup at the open beta launch of MWO. Maybe in form of tokens. Players could just pick the first few mechs they like.

And about the population size. That might be a problem with the attraction of battletech to younger audiences. As mentioned in the Podcast, it was bigger in the 90's. The technology and the understanding of it advanced over the decades. So I guess a totally new Mech IP is needed to attract bigger audiences. PGI would have to reach out to the heads who created battletech (maybe Harebrained Shemes wants to join to) and in cooperation create something new.

Sigh, I guess we won't get MWO2.

[SafeScanner]

"Armored Core Rubicon" is slated to come out at sometime might cause a bump in interest that could be capitalised on raise the sales of MW5 and push people towards/back mwo even if its short might get a few people interested