51 replies to this topic

[rook]

sycocys, on 12 January 2023 - 06:33 PM, said:

The mechlab really isn't that difficult, even if this is your first mechwarrior experience.

If you stop to think about it, it probably is difficult for players not experienced with it.

1. First and foremost, almost every single mech (save for a few heroes/champion versions) are not minimally viable for play. Every single one needs to be touched in the mechlab to have a change to play. That's pretty crazy, if I was just starting a game and I used my in game currency to by a mech and the "stock" loadout wasn't playable, I'd be very confused. When you buy a new mech, it should come to the mechlab stripped, and full armor (with all stripped items in your inventory) so you would KNOW it has to be touched.

2. It's easy to mess up a mech in the mech lab if you don't have a feel for gameplay. A new player might stock up on high-heat, high-damage weapons and spend half their match shutdown. You can easily strip armor from areas to fit weapons and leave yourself exposed, you can think that "wow, this XL engine is so much lighter, I can fit more weapons on!" and not realize your Awesome has giant side torsos and are easily targeted. Or some of the more advanced things like not having good convergence on your weapons because they're scattered all over the mech, or that your Atlas' AC20 is roughly at it's knees and all you're doing is shooting the small hill in front of you.

[sycocys]

rook, on 13 January 2023 - 02:41 PM, said:

If you stop to think about it, it probably is difficult for players not experienced with it.

1. First and foremost, almost every single mech (save for a few heroes/champion versions) are not minimally viable for play. Every single one needs to be touched in the mechlab to have a change to play. That's pretty crazy, if I was just starting a game and I used my in game currency to by a mech and the "stock" loadout wasn't playable, I'd be very confused. When you buy a new mech, it should come to the mechlab stripped, and full armor (with all stripped items in your inventory) so you would KNOW it has to be touched.

2. It's easy to mess up a mech in the mech lab if you don't have a feel for gameplay. A new player might stock up on high-heat, high-damage weapons and spend half their match shutdown. You can easily strip armor from areas to fit weapons and leave yourself exposed, you can think that "wow, this XL engine is so much lighter, I can fit more weapons on!" and not realize your Awesome has giant side torsos and are easily targeted. Or some of the more advanced things like not having good convergence on your weapons because they're scattered all over the mech, or that your Atlas' AC20 is roughly at it's knees and all you're doing is shooting the small hill in front of you.

While these are true, they aren't really factors in tier 5/4 play. Stock mechs work just fine against the other players that are still running stock and other terrible loadouts then stop dead to aim their small lasers. Starts to be a factor as you move into tier 4 and pulling 3s and more groups/coordination.

And as I stated before (I believe it was in this thread) - most players that play online games have played at least a few of the litany of MMOs that you manage equipment, consumables, 10+ active/passive skills (with wildly different damage/buff types and cds, areas, directions, and/or durations), hp/mana, timing and location in attacks and defense against both pve and pvp enemies.
Truthfully this game is relatively simple all things considered, getting to understand it deeper takes more work and figuring but its the same case for every game.

So unless you came to this game directly from the absolute simplest of games, nothing this game offers is really all that complicated to figure out.

The movement system is actually probably the worst thing to deal with if you've never played a tank game but even mane of these new f2p/uber cheap rouge-likes play with aiming separate from movement so its not going to be a very foreign concept for most casual game players either.

[Thorqemada]

Well, the numbers on MWO are inflated and multiplied beyond recognition by a multitude of Quirks, a multitude of Equipment Options, a multitude of Skills and a multitude of Mech-Locations be it Omni or not.

I really do not believe this is an easy accessible game at all!

Edited by Thorqemada, 14 January 2023 - 11:11 AM.

[PocketYoda]

Spheroid, on 11 January 2023 - 04:11 PM, said:

Lame, it was more like a wake than an interview.

Also Russ still hates PvP as a concept more than two decades into the 21st century.

A lot of people hate PvP for a plethora of reasons, this is effectively my last PVP game i even bother with.

[Weeny Machine]

The problem is that for new players it is hard to get into the MWO-verse. Just look at the weapon explanation...how should a new player realize that there is a minimum range on PPCs or splash damage to clan ERPPCs etc. The tooltips are just horrible. The point is: it is hard to get new players that way and if it were the same in MWO2, the result would be catastophic because people nowadays won't spend as much time as in earlier times to learn the ropes of a new game.

[LordNothing]

sycocys, on 12 January 2023 - 06:33 PM, said:

The mechlab really isn't that difficult, even if this is your first mechwarrior experience.

some basic build tips popups would probibly be easy to do. just make it so you can disable them so they dont annoy us grognards. things like equipping isxl would inform you about how engines die, or equipping a gauss rifle will tell you that it explodes if critted, ammo will tell you if it can blow up and tell you about case. that kind of stuff. very low hanging fruit imho.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 January 2023 - 01:39 PM.

[Thorqemada]

My idea to ease the way for new players and have them organically grow is a career mode where you start as a fresh Pilot and earn your way up the ranks via playing the game starting with some Medium or Light Mech that focusses around 1 weapon type.

Mechlab work is done via a human interface that is a customizable human Mechtech avatar that you speak to after the matches for repairs and with success and/or time the options start to increase like i.e. you mission biome changes and he walks you through the heatsink thing so you go to a colder planet and can swap heatsinks for an adititonal laser or two and vice versa.

Via the carrer you work the new pilots into the options they have and give them understanding and experience while they climb the mountain step by step not realizing the many steps it took to reach the top feeling the experience of growth while having a fun/entertaining ride.

You would open up the options in regard to all things that can be changed on a Mech and with enough success, gametime and reputation the goal is to get our own personalized Mech - your personal Hero Mech all the while your NPC-Tech aides/guides you and grows with you.

And ofc as Mechwarrior you have an individual Avatar that specializes in a certain way so replayability comes not only with Mechs but also different Careers - a Scout is something entirely different than an Assault Pilot.

And with multiple pilot avatars you can have deeper gameplay with elements of fatigued vs fresh pilot etc.
In Faction Play a single Pilot that does all the combat will be fatigued half in while if you have grown a group of pilots you now only switch Mechs but Pilots also and get Fresh Pilot boni.

Plus each Mechpliot/Mechtech Avatar is a monetization multiplayer...

The emotional bondage to a personal Avatar that is grown over time is much bigger that to the umpteens Mech that does not differ but in Skin (though keep in mind Mechs also are business chance multiplyers).

But you need to ease in new players and the catch is a cool pilot character that has a carrer (be it merc or soldier) with a worthy goal - create your own Hero Mech and lead it into battle.

From there the game opens up...

Edited by Thorqemada, 17 January 2023 - 04:08 PM.

[sycocys]

Thorqemada, on 14 January 2023 - 11:10 AM, said:

Well, the numbers on MWO are inflated and multiplied beyond recognition by a multitude of Quirks, a multitude of Equipment Options, a multitude of Skills and a multitude of Mech-Locations be it Omni or not.

I really do not believe this is an easy accessible game at all!

"quirks", skills, equipment options/locations, damage types, buff types, massively inflated numbers, crit scales, defense scales, and everything else has been infused into gaming for a loooooong time. d2 is 20 years old, d1 had a slightly less expansive selection, d3 has massively more, there's WoW, runescape, and several hundred other games that are far more intense on the numbers of building your toon. this game is honestly relatively simple.

Thorqemada, on 17 January 2023 - 04:06 PM, said:

My idea to ease the way for new players and have them organically grow is a career mode where you start as a fresh Pilot and earn your way up the ranks via playing the game starting with some Medium or Light Mech that focusses around 1 weapon type.

Imo it would be better to move on from this game and create a unified launcher for the MW5 system. Grant people free access to a limited quick drop/small campaign for the single player iterations. Might generate single player sales of full games and dlc as well as buy into the PvP game.

[Thorqemada]

Yeah, ofc, this game you can not salvage.

It needs to be done in a new one that does away with to much inflated amounts of numbers!

MW5 will probably not be it - lets see what the unknown Mech game will be...

[sycocys]

Thorqemada, on 17 January 2023 - 11:49 PM, said:

Yeah, ofc, this game you can not salvage.

It needs to be done in a new one that does away with to much inflated amounts of numbers!

MW5 will probably not be it - lets see what the unknown Mech game will be...

It will almost definitely be MW5 with clan mechs. PGI isn't going to invest a bunch of time/money into a totally new game when all they have to do is modify the campaign structuring and clap in assets they already have.

Fair play, just do the same for MWO and work out some server code. Yaml (only played with it a little) makes the mechlab better than this one and adds actual salvage. Also switchable ammo. They have a system there where people actively make the game better FOR THEM, they just need to for the most part provide the network system and implement player maps and modes every couple months.
Can keep their stores going, they should be producing DLC campaigns at least quarterly if not monthly, and selling them cheap instead of being stuck on the mechpack model.

And if they have a unified launcher for all the titles they have their NPE that you think is daunting built right in, plus a portion of their marketing built in as well.

[JC Daxion]

Thanks Sean, as always an interesting listen.

[Sjorpha]

I think most of Russ answers make perfect sense, but what I'm missing is the recognition that the game could have done better if it was done better.

Like there is no recognition that CW was promised at launch and then delayed for years, and then its development was botched and the existing CW community destroyed by the catastrophic phase 3 update. No recognition that both the initial matchmaker and the new one have serious problems. No recognition that the complete lack of in-game lore and flavour text (for mechs, planets, equipment and so on) makes the game not be a functional introduction to Battletech which makes it seem soulless for people who aren't already into the IP. You could make this list as long as you like.