65 replies to this topic

[ConquerorClass]

Rant all you want against me.
But as a "Manager" in my workplace, I see Faction play as completely toxic to New players,
segregating, isolating and frustrating.

I understand many will say "GIT GUD" or "join a team", but simply allowing a 12 man team to dominate the queue, SWAP sides and dominate again, and again... is doing a complete disservice to the mode, and hence the game...

12 mans rolling noobs like pancakes in their own deployment zone,
is completely against the spirit of the game, and a waste of my 30 minutes.

A game which has a small set of players to begin with, really shouldn't be ostracising casual or new players.
Also the whole, Your "locked out" for 30 minutes, is crazy, as when you are ABLE TO QUEUE again, that steam roller 12 man is out also, and your likely to go against them again, and again.

Where EVENTs force a play queue, I.e. current FP event, it only feeds the egos of "Win at all costs" players who need that fix, and probably do poorly Verses other 12 man comp teams.

the Faction play should be balanced by 2man teams max, and UBER dropship gunners who one shot enemy, if they are near the deploy zones, and no frigging cheese builds.

Stepping into a game Vs 12 man teams, it's over after your first failed wave.
As it stands, FACTION PLAY events will be avoided by me and many of my other casual friends.

[DebaucheryNShenanigans]

I'll admit, Rolling with Merc Star in the day, and Rolling PUGs, was not exciting or enjoyable. I grew bored and left.
Playing V 12 mans, win or lose; was a top game though, and we'd hunt them down where we could.

Salute

[Samziel]

IIRC this warning is given to everyone first time launching FP. No, it's not balanced and with such small playerbase it will most likely never be.

Also

ConquerorClass, on 04 October 2023 - 11:13 PM, said:

But as a "Manager" in my workplace,

...What?

Edited by Samziel, 05 October 2023 - 01:27 AM.

[Meep Meep]

Another person who completely ignored the huge popup warning that was linked in the above post. This isn't even worth discussion.

[Saved By The Bell]

NO.

The HPG map in QP is much worse for new players.

[The6thMessenger]

ConquerorClass, on 04 October 2023 - 11:13 PM, said:

But as a "Manager" in my workplace, I see Faction play as completely toxic to New players, segregating, isolating and frustrating.

This ain't your workplace, Karen.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 05 October 2023 - 07:31 PM.

[SafeScanner]

Saved By The Bell, on 05 October 2023 - 01:41 AM, said:

NO.

The HPG map in QP is much worse for new players.

Yea give me the old HPG!

[Mochyn Pupur]

Shame the pop-up doesn't remind you that everyone started as a newb and that the people (experienced CW players) who could make the experience a more enjoyable one can be ******* and will blame you for their actions.

However, saying which, there were a couple of long term CW players taking the time to call the drops, and actually took time to explain maps and strategies, in which case, listen and follow to make the drops feel less like a seal clubbing session and more like a semi-coordinated one.

With low numbers, the MM is near useless and some units do/did take the opportunity to farm, ruining the whole intro to this more challenging part of the game. No need really, especially when they had almost certainly completed the challenge, but have now made new folk wary of trying the mode again.

[LordNothing]

there are two kinds of people who seem drawn to fp. entitled elitist ********, and masochistic uncoordinated skittles. and honestly im not sure which group is more annoying. im actually fine with the hardness of the mode and wait times are ultimately what killed it for me (this is why occasional fp events are a good thing), but i think it could be better and it would be better for the game as a whole if it was accessible to more players, because qp is incredibly repetitive and dull.

if i were to do anything id have certain pug nights that enforce team limits, and have competitive nights where 12 on 12 is strongly encouraged. then more players would have access to the mode.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 October 2023 - 04:31 AM.

[Curccu]

SafeScanner, on 05 October 2023 - 02:23 AM, said:

Yea give me the old HPG!

Yep, not new player but new HPG is one of my most hated maps and old one was one that I liked a lot.. Same with Caustic... give original Caustic as classic back.

Mochyn Pupur, on 05 October 2023 - 02:31 AM, said:

With low numbers, the MM is near useless

There is no MM in FP...

[Nathan White]

LordNothing, on 05 October 2023 - 04:24 AM, said:

there are two kinds of people who seem drawn to fp. entitled elitist ********, and masochistic uncoordinated skittles. and honestly im not sure which group is more annoying. im actually fine with the hardness of the mode and wait times are ultimately what killed it for me (this is why occasional fp events are a good thing), but i think it could be better and it would be better for the game as a whole if it was accessible to more players, because qp is incredibly repetitive and dull.

if i were to do anything id have certain pug nights that enforce team limits, and have competitive nights where 12 on 12 is strongly encouraged. then more players would have access to the mode.

[LordNothing]

well i dont take pills but i will smoke a bowl.

[Ken Harkin]

ConquerorClass, on 04 October 2023 - 11:13 PM, said:

Rant all you want against me.
But as a "Manager" in my workplace, I see Faction play as completely toxic to New players,
segregating, isolating and frustrating.

and I agree with you! What is more I agree that having experience in managing people in a workplace, particularly if you have had training in managing, mentoring, etc, you insight into how Faction Play is nothing but a disincentive to new players is justified.

As some have pointed out, there is a blatant warning that entering Faction Play is going to result in any but the experienced player who is working with a group being brutalized and used as C-Bill fodder for those who are experienced and organized. I absolutely do NOT think FP should change to disallow large organized groups because that is what it is designed around. When you go in there on your own it is going to hurt, such is life.

My issue is when PGI runs a FP event trying to drive as much traffic as possible to it. If you want to get new people interested in FP it isn't by having them flood in to serve as fodder for the organized large groups. That is why when PGI chooses to run an event like this, asking for one and all to jump into FP to get those rewards, all groups should be turned off. While the event runs everyone is a PUG. We all drop in and the ability to organize is entirely up to the random crowd who arrives. Again, I do not want this all the time as people being able to drop with their groups is a major thing keeping long term players around. I mean only for the brief period of the event. Yes, the new players are still going to have it rough but at least they have a chance of not being immediately steam rolled by a large organized premade group.

[RickySpanish]

A manager who can't RTFM, well I never.

[LordNothing]

management is just the interface between the wealthy and the unwashed masses.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Its just a sign of the shrinking playerbase.

12v12 synchronized drop examples..

8-12 man coordinated team vs 8-12 man coordinated team with people on their Micrphones communicating enemy positions, doing push/retreat callouts, rallying lances (squads) of mechs is going to be a good exciting game.

8-12 man coordinated team with coms vs 12 man mixed bag of random people who do not work as a team nor try to.
Is a recipe for failure.

Now back to my header..
The population issue.

If a synced team drops on Clan or IS, its first come first served.
There is no matchmaking to balance the teams what so ever in Faction Play.

FP is the 24/7 feeding frenzy equivalent of what happens when a Swat team is ready and geared with a plan, and the opposing force consists of 12 people are all half asleep drinking beer and smoking weed.

FP simply grabs the first 12 players to join from each faction, and when there are 12/12 (24) players ready in the Que, off you go into the fray, ready or not.

Thats why over the years fewer and fewer people even bother to play the mode, its unsustainable in its current state.

If you're a manager in your workplace, it is "your job" to coordinate with your department is it not?

Same thing here, except nobody is getting payed, and the reward for working is like a virtual pat on the back.

Edited by Cyborne Elemental, 05 October 2023 - 06:25 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

FP really needs a critical mass of players to work. At this point we're scraping the scum at the bottom of the barrel.
I used the love FP, but now it doesn't matter when you play, you will always be up against a stack of the same sweaty nerds stacked up and cupping their nuts on defense.

Half of them are cheating. Go ahead and report it, nothing will happen.
I don't like accusing people of cheating, but it's fairly blatant. Every unit that actively plays FP has people who are cheating.
We all know it, and we go along with it because that's the culture, or at least it's all that's left of it.

But why would someone cheat in a 10 year old game? I can tell you it's not about competition.
It's more of a social thing. These people are battletech nerds with an emotional investment in the franchise.
It's not about winning as much as the need to be viewed as successful and skilled by their peers. These are the people who know the lore, never use UAVs, and always score high. It happens in QP as well, certainly, but it's just not as concentrated.

So anyways, I started playing FP again but I noticed playing it gave me lesions on my chest, arms, and face.
I went to the doctor and he said it's definitely aids. So if you've been playing FP recently , you might want to get checked.

[Nine-Ball]

Any sort of competition where veterans compete against veterans will always be hostile to newbies.

This has been an issue for as long as I can remember, going back 20+ years anyways.

But at the same time the knowledge is there for new players to exploit and become better while doing it faster than the old heads who had to figure out everything beforehand.

[martian]

ConquerorClass, on 04 October 2023 - 11:13 PM, said:

Rant all you want against me.
But as a "Manager" in my workplace, I see Faction play as completely toxic to New players,
segregating, isolating and frustrating.

I understand many will say "GIT GUD" or "join a team", but simply allowing a 12 man team to dominate the queue, SWAP sides and dominate again, and again... is doing a complete disservice to the mode, and hence the game...

12 mans rolling noobs like pancakes in their own deployment zone,
is completely against the spirit of the game, and a waste of my 30 minutes.

A game which has a small set of players to begin with, really shouldn't be ostracising casual or new players.
Also the whole, Your "locked out" for 30 minutes, is crazy, as when you are ABLE TO QUEUE again, that steam roller 12 man is out also, and your likely to go against them again, and again.

Where EVENTs force a play queue, I.e. current FP event, it only feeds the egos of "Win at all costs" players who need that fix, and probably do poorly Verses other 12 man comp teams.

the Faction play should be balanced by 2man teams max, and UBER dropship gunners who one shot enemy, if they are near the deploy zones, and no frigging cheese builds.

Stepping into a game Vs 12 man teams, it's over after your first failed wave.
As it stands, FACTION PLAY events will be avoided by me and many of my other casual friends.

The Faction Play - or as they used call it "the Community Warfare" when it started - has been designed with the idea that the premades will roll over the enemy team, if given the opportunity. The majority of the CW / FP playerbase voted with their feet and left the FP sooner or later. I guess that some of them left MWO too.

Edited by martian, 05 October 2023 - 07:50 AM.

[Duke Falcon]

Toxic?
Since the beginning I started to play MWO FP is my favourite and fared well as a low-tier solo so far.
Hard? Sure...
I guess most people not likes hard things. But if one dare to remain in FP after the first shock of difficulty there is a c**tload what one could learn there!
I, myself, would miss the extra population generated by the event. I could play more matches than in two months! In my timezone FP is quite dead when I could play. I hope however that not everyone would leave after this event ends... More people more matches, more matches more fun! A manager may understand that, right?

Edited by Duke Falcon, 05 October 2023 - 07:49 AM.