39 replies to this topic

[ESC 907]

So, there are some WILD quirks possessed by IS 'Mechs. e.g. LCT-1V or SDR-5V's Energy/Laser Cooldown quirks, or the Scattershot's cooldown quirks, the HBK-GI's Gauss Cooldown quirks...

What are some similar quirks possessed by Clan 'Mechs?

[Heavy Money]

There's not as many like that for them. Those quirks exist to help mechs with really bad hardpoint counts to still accomplish something. Clan mechs generally have plenty of hardpoints, and their weapons have higher base stats.

There are a few though. There are some omnimechs that have only a few hardpoints on their So8. These also have giga quirks. Most notably:

EXE-C
SMN-Prime
SHC-H and -A
NVA-D

Edited by Heavy Money, 29 April 2023 - 06:08 PM.

[foamyesque]

All Clan mechs:
LRMs and SRMs: 1/2 weight
Double heat sinks: -1 crit
ES structure / FF armour: 1/2 crits each

There's your gigaquirks, right there

[BLACKR0SE]

Orion IIC radar is very nice. If you want to use it for lrm.

Edited by TAMTAMBABY, 01 May 2023 - 03:32 PM.

[ESC 907]

Heavy Money, on 29 April 2023 - 06:07 PM, said:

There's not as many like that for them. Those quirks exist to help mechs with really bad hardpoint counts to still accomplish something. Clan mechs generally have plenty of hardpoints, and their weapons have higher base stats.

There are a few though. There are some omnimechs that have only a few hardpoints on their So8. These also have giga quirks. Most notably:

EXE-C
SMN-Prime
SHC-H and -A
NVA-D

Yeah, I really like to run the MLX. My favorite used to run ECM and 2xMPLs, but then the nerfing of the MPLs pretty much made it invalid. It would be nice to have more quirks for that 'Mech. I believe I noticed that the ADR-D got its UAC quirks nerfed too, sad day.

If PGI is so worried about "Frankenmech OP" being an issue, they can just be sure to make more weighty quirks SO8 Quirks. Makes me wonder if they can implement a system where the quirks can change based on how many hard-points a 'Mech has. Like: MLX with only two energy points? Have a powerful quirk! - MLX now has 4+ energy points? No quirk for you!

[LordNothing]

wouldnt mind better quirks on certain omnis. omni mechs can often be just as limited as is mechs with bigger/heavier equipment. mostly because there isnt much you can do when you need more tonnage other than strip armor. i was running a kin wolf with an erppc and 2 lb2s, an anemic loadout for 80 tons, even a mobility assault platform. a mad-iic can be just as fast and carry some firepower. less/no set-of-8 on the weaker omnis might be a good idea.

maybe some onmi variants with a different size engine from the others, sort of like how some battlemech variants have higher engine caps than the rest. a gargoyle with a 380 or an exeecutioner with a 350 wouldnt be a bad idea.

some omnis are also starved for crit slots and others have way too many, so variants with different upgrades would also be nice.

[Heavy Money]

ESC 907, on 29 April 2023 - 08:23 PM, said:

Yeah, I really like to run the MLX. My favorite used to run ECM and 2xMPLs, but then the nerfing of the MPLs pretty much made it invalid. It would be nice to have more quirks for that 'Mech. I believe I noticed that the ADR-D got its UAC quirks nerfed too, sad day.

If PGI is so worried about "Frankenmech OP" being an issue, they can just be sure to make more weighty quirks SO8 Quirks. Makes me wonder if they can implement a system where the quirks can change based on how many hard-points a 'Mech has. Like: MLX with only two energy points? Have a powerful quirk! - MLX now has 4+ energy points? No quirk for you!

Unfortunately that can't be done
But you can make other quirk suggestions to the Cauldron if you visit their discord. Imo there's still quite a few So8's that are lacking.

Edited by Heavy Money, 29 April 2023 - 08:39 PM.

[KursedVixen]

i really wish most of the set of 8 quirks didn't exist.. big ones like HSl make sense but others honestly should go on the omnipod itself...

[Wraith 1]

KFX-D puts the Oxide and Huginn to shame with its missile quirks.

JR7-IIC-2 can fire HMLs so fast and cool that they feel like IS MLs.

DWF-Prime can get up to -17.5% heat depending on omnipods, which is insane considering how many clan energy weapons it can boat. DWF-W left torso with +10% range is also very good, and becomes slightly broken when you throw it on a DWF-C with ERLL+Gauss and ECM.

There are definitely a few clan gigaquirks that I think don't go far enough, though. 30% cooldown is not enough to seriously consider running a stock SHC-Prime, for example.

Edited by Wraith 1, 29 April 2023 - 09:22 PM.

[crazytimes]

Because the omnimechs have quirked parts, you can assemble your own quirks. Hard to get to the same level as some of the IS ones, but you can shape towards a specific build. There's a bunch of TBR and SMN parts that lend themselves to UAC builds for example. I'm not saying the end result is great, but you can definitely make something of them.

Cauldron seems to be pushing some of the quirks from the SO8 to the parts, which helps.

[foamyesque]

Heavy Money, on 29 April 2023 - 08:39 PM, said:

Unfortunately that can't be done
But you can make other quirk suggestions to the Cauldron if you visit their discord. Imo there's still quite a few So8's that are lacking.

You can sort of get there with pod-specific quirks, but they require the change in hardpoints all stem from the same component (i.e., arm variations).

[PocketYoda]

Black Lanners, Storm Crows, Hellfires, Sunspiders, Ebon Jaguars, Mad Dogs, could really do with some armor quirks.. They are all crazy glass cannons.. some in that list are almost unusable.. Ebons, Hellfires and Storm crows are just passable.

[Heavy Money]

PocketYoda, on 30 April 2023 - 08:55 PM, said:

Black Lanners, Storm Crows, Hellfires, Sunspiders, Ebon Jaguars, Mad Dogs, could really do with some armor quirks.. They are all crazy glass cannons.. some in that list are almost unusable.. Ebons, Hellfires and Storm crows are just passable.

All of those mechs are really good except for a couple Hellfires. They are glass cannon yeah, but they aren't unusable. If these mechs got better defensively they'd be too strong.

[PocketYoda]

Heavy Money, on 30 April 2023 - 09:47 PM, said:

All of those mechs are really good except for a couple Hellfires. They are glass cannon yeah, but they aren't unusable. If these mechs got better defensively they'd be too strong.

I did say almost.. They are all far from top tier though and would benefit from a little more strength like the Madcat received..

[LordNothing]

crazytimes, on 29 April 2023 - 10:49 PM, said:

Because the omnimechs have quirked parts, you can assemble your own quirks. Hard to get to the same level as some of the IS ones, but you can shape towards a specific build. There's a bunch of TBR and SMN parts that lend themselves to UAC builds for example. I'm not saying the end result is great, but you can definitely make something of them.

Cauldron seems to be pushing some of the quirks from the SO8 to the parts, which helps.

you can trade quirk values for hardpoint count for balance. omnipods with bloated hardpoints should have no quirks. while omnipods with no hardpoints should have strong generic quirks, and omnipods with single hardpoints should have strong weapon specific quirks. set of 8 should only be used when you have a specific variant that is weak in its default configuration and needs to be elevated with quirks to compete. if there is a better non standard config, you dont want those quirks in non-stock configs.

Edited by LordNothing, 01 May 2023 - 06:29 AM.

[PsionicMantis]

I have an appreciation for the quirked omnipods that increase things like ammo that can mix and match with other pieces.

Example: kfx-p

[An6ryMan69]

foamyesque, on 29 April 2023 - 07:56 PM, said:

All Clan mechs:
LRMs and SRMs: 1/2 weight
Double heat sinks: -1 crit
ES structure / FF armour: 1/2 crits each

There's your gigaquirks, right there

All this, plus autocannons that are a couple of tons lighter than IS, plus non-suicidal XL engines.

I think quirks generally in MWO are pretty well done. Ammo quirks in particular, are absolutely necessary for some mechs.

Quirks are basically an attempt to balance out a game based on several revisions of a decades old table-top game that actually doesn't translate well at all to a video game, and even within the TT game itself, it had major changes, like clan mechs coming out being able to mop the floor with IS mechs. The quirk system is a bit clunky but it works.

Honestly I think the only real way to improve on it is a complete redo of a new game only very loosely based on Battletech, that gave up on lore and focused only on video game playability, with all mechs in the game pretty much built from scratch, or at least completely customizable (player can move hard point locations around on chassis, swap hard point types, mix and match Clan and IS tech, highly impactful skill point system to grow mech chassis, maybe get rid of heat management completely and run cooldown only on weapons, etc.).

Edited by An6ryMan69, 01 May 2023 - 11:43 AM.

[SmokedJag]

An6ryMan69, on 01 May 2023 - 11:41 AM, said:

All this, plus autocannons that are a couple of tons lighter than IS, plus non-suicidal XL engines.

I think quirks generally in MWO are pretty well done. Ammo quirks in particular, are absolutely necessary for some mechs.

Quirks are basically an attempt to balance out a game based on several revisions of a decades old table-top game that actually doesn't translate well at all to a video game, and even within the TT game itself, it had major changes, like clan mechs coming out being able to mop the floor with IS mechs. The quirk system is a bit clunky but it works.

Honestly I think the only real way to improve on it is a complete redo of a new game only very loosely based on Battletech, that gave up on lore and focused only on video game playability, with all mechs in the game pretty much built from scratch, or at least completely customizable (player can move hard point locations around on chassis, swap hard point types, mix and match Clan and IS tech, highly impactful skill point system to grow mech chassis, maybe get rid of heat management completely and run cooldown only on weapons, etc.).

Cross posted from the Dire Whale thread...

The Clans were only balanced by rules trying to enforce RPG lore. Among other things, there were supposed to be restrictions on Clan force size / tonnage vs. IS, and multiple Clan Mechs shooting at a single opponent. These restrictions were much larger than what Faction Play had in this game.

Clans ignoring this stuff could take a 3:1 fight and be in okay shape afterwards.

[Heavy Money]

PocketYoda, on 01 May 2023 - 05:30 AM, said:

I did say almost.. They are all far from top tier though and would benefit from a little more strength like the Madcat received..

Other than the Hellfire, all of these mechs literally are the top tier. Several have multiple top tier loadouts.

The Black Lanner is in the top 3 highest average scoring mediums in quickplay. It might be the top still.

The Storm Crow is the second best clan laservomit medium after the HBK-IIC-A, but is much more mobile, and probably the best medium SPL brawler (nova is nasty too, but SCR is faster.)

The SNS-D UAC dakka builds (there are 3) are borderline OP even after it got nerfed. Its the best clan heavy dakka, and arguably the best heavy dakka (NTG can fit more guns but is slow and doesn't get ECM.) SNS is also excellent with Laservomit and 4LPL+ECM. SNS-VG is excellent with 2UAC10+ERPPC. Those are all top tier builds, but SNS also has many others that aren't far behind.

Ebon Jaguar is excellent with laservomit (same firepower as TBR, just without the ECM. But has better mounts and lighter.) It has giant UAC quirks if built right and is excellent with 2UAC10+ERPPC and 4UAC2. (SNS-D has stolen its role as long range dakka bit due to having ECM, but EBJ is lighter at least and a bit more dps.) It also has nasty close range builds with UAC20+UAC10, and is the best heavy LRM boat in the game (perhaps best LRM boat overall when comparing firepower to tonnage. Again because of huge quirks.) The EBJ is held back a bit by its terrible hitboxes, but if it wasn't made of glass it would be far too good. And if it gained defense and lost offense it'd be redundant with other similar clan heavy omnimechs.

MDD-C 2LB20X build is a top tier fast brawl build. Common in 1v1s and also in Comp. Less common in QP due to brawl being less common in QP, but still very viable. MDD has plenty of other good loadouts too, but not as much as EBJ or SNS.

As I said before, Hellfire is a bit left behind. It has some nice laservomit and brawl loadouts that got used in Comp, but they aren't so great in QP.

[LordNothing]

PsionicMantis, on 01 May 2023 - 11:00 AM, said:

I have an appreciation for the quirked omnipods that increase things like ammo that can mix and match with other pieces.

Example: kfx-p

variety in fixed equipment as well. kfx also has legs with and without jump jets. i dont think there is another omni you can change jump jets on (maybe some timbies or dires, id have to go look).

Edited by LordNothing, 01 May 2023 - 04:37 PM.