121 replies to this topic

[crazytimes]

The official forums aren't really the place for this discussion. Many of the regular posters here have become that accustomed to these discussions being hidden that they actually believe there is no problem.

I suggest continuing the discussion elsewhere.

That said... the problem doesn't feel signifigant. Definitely not signifigant enough I would like kernel level software running to protect me from it.

[sycocys]

To answer the question of the topic - what you have to buy to get a good anti-cheat system is PGI and then allocate some funding toward it.

This game is 10 years old at this point, they didn't care about cheating until it started to affect their dream of e-sports tournaments and even then their response to it was minimal. So now being that that is all but dead combined with the fact they managed to run off a massive portion of the player base by not developing any of the modes there's exactly zero chance they'll address it.

[Tromoskyon Rex]

.8 KD posting at it again... Maybe you just need to learn the game better? We all know there are cheats out there for any game that has ever existed, even ones with anti cheat. You've been playing since launch and, at least stat wise, have never significantly gone up or down; so what makes you think there is some influx of cheaters ruining the game now?

That said, what makes you think that of the few thousand players who are still here that YOU are a victim of such constant cheating that PGI need to invest time and effort into implementing something like EAC into a 10 year old game? Do you have clips? Do you have references? Do you have names (for the subreddit or elsewhere, not on the main forum ofc)?

[Tromoskyon Rex]

Haipyng, on 13 May 2023 - 07:36 AM, said:

I truly admire skill in MWO. Its really is a thinking man's shooter, but with the influx of new names I hate wondering at these very frequent displays of super skill. Anti-cheat goes a long way to calming doubts.

Have you considered they're smurfs trying to mess with lower tiers? Takes 5 seconds for someone on JGX to decide they want to be the top KD/Kill player for the season and make an alt to farm T5 players until they have some absurd standing like 36 KD and then go back to their main.

[RockmachinE]

MWO doesn't lend itself well to cheating due to the nature of the game. It's a game where experience, mech builds, timing, positioning, movement, awareness, heat management, prioritizing components/targets and similar factors are the most important. There are no cheats for that.

Things like wallhack and autoaim will make a difference, but you will still end up getting wrecked if you don't know what you're doing in MWO.

Never in my 10 years here did I feel cheats effect the game to a noticable degree. In fact in all this time I've only a handful of times seen people cheat and it didn't help them much anyways.

[LordNothing]

i saw a guy whos ping kept alternating bertween somewhere around 80 and 800. the fact that it was a factor of 10 made me think he was using a lag switch, so i reported em. i watched his ping fluctuate throughout the match at regular intervals.

a couple more times people were reporting targets on their wallhack. another guy said "aimbots on". i reported both. its one thing when it looks like somone is cheating, its another thing when they announce it on comms.

[Haipyng]

Orion_, on 13 May 2023 - 06:07 PM, said:

.8 KD posting at it again... Maybe you just need to learn the game better? We all know there are cheats out there for any game that has ever existed, even ones with anti cheat. You've been playing since launch and, at least stat wise, have never significantly gone up or down; so what makes you think there is some influx of cheaters ruining the game now?

So, you are one of those twits that dig into Jarl stats to dredge up K/D ratios like that is some kind of qualifier? How? Because I don't choose to nurse a K/D ratio and play conservatively at long range somehow means I don't get to think the game would benefit from an anti-cheat engine? You trying to shame? Didn't work. I have grandchildren, nerve damage, like to play and experiment with many builds, and tend to play brawling builds, and invest roughly 4 hours a week into the game, none of which add up to big K/D ratios. Big deal in the scheme of things. I suppose you have one of those 1.5+ K/D? That and putting a toilet brush in your hand qualifies you to scrub toilets. You must be very proud. Congratulations! Is it real or artificially that high?

If you want to see evidence, get up off your lazy butt and Google it. Posting that stuff here is a CoC violation.

Actually bring forth an argument as to why an anti-cheat engine is a bad thing, unless you don't have an argument and are just worried it may affect your amazing K/D ratio.

Edited by Haipyng, 14 May 2023 - 10:49 AM.

[Haipyng]

LordNothing, on 14 May 2023 - 03:27 AM, said:

i saw a guy whos ping kept alternating bertween somewhere around 80 and 800. the fact that it was a factor of 10 made me think he was using a lag switch, so i reported em. i watched his ping fluctuate throughout the match at regular intervals.

a couple more times people were reporting targets on their wallhack. another guy said "aimbots on". i reported both. its one thing when it looks like someone is cheating, its another thing when they announce it on comms.

People are verbalizing it way more. It is annoying. There is a report button and that is about the extent of it and it is unlikely they look at it seriously anyway unless they are getting dozens of reports. I shug it off and move on myself. I had a match where someone was ranting and accusing someone on my team of cheating earlier yesterday. It was not the first time I have heard of an anti-cheat engine being desired and I thought I would bring it up here.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Haipyng, on 13 May 2023 - 01:49 PM, said:

If you are not going to listen

Considering that you chose to outright "ignore" pretty much everything I told you, it's not me who doesn't "listen".

Haipyng, on 13 May 2023 - 01:49 PM, said:

and dismiss any counter, don't ask.

The thing is: You didn't actually provide a "counter" to anything regarding my original response. As for me "asking" something there: I clearly didn't ask an actual question that required a further answer

Haipyng, on 13 May 2023 - 01:49 PM, said:

There are hundreds of thousands of players using games with anti cheat and they run just fine.

And it's their prerogative to make the necessary decisions to do so while deliberately ignoring the fact that they are indeed sacrificing their system security (which wouldn't be much of a topic if people actually had truly dedicated gaming machines with no personal data whatsoever) and their beloved games still seeing more than enough cheaters.

As for having hundreds of thousands of players running anti-cheat engines without problems?! Well, in your preferred world of "calmed doubts" those players that do have issues when running anti-cheat engines are very obviously just "colateral damage" that you personally are more than just fine accepting.

Haipyng, on 13 May 2023 - 01:49 PM, said:

If they, didn't we wouldn't have anti cheat engines.

Another non-sequitur.

[sycocys]

RockmachinE, on 14 May 2023 - 02:51 AM, said:

It's a game where experience, mech builds, timing, positioning, movement, awareness, heat management, prioritizing components/targets and similar factors are the most important.

The first few matter in every pvp game.

The last few are exactly why people can and do use cheats. When you can vomit a 70+ point laser alpha or 50 points of ppfld on a specific box, especially from longer ranges and on moving targets it makes a massive difference - when coupled with the longer range push that's been going on over time (and in drop cycles) heat management doesn't matter all that much.

Add esp/wall hacks to that and positioning/experience/awareness/fine tuned builds matter much less. Or intentional packet dropping/swapping to muddy up the server tracking a mechs position.

Just saying there could be a reason why some of those top sniper players perform so well with their shooting, and get absolutely wrecked by people dumb firing lrms at them.

To think that people aren't cheating is just silly, the game has no mechanic to counter or detect it other than manual spectating and the core cheat engines for the game engine have been around for longer than the game. Is it massive like some of the more popular games? No, but that's because this game just isn't particularly popular and the player count has been driven down so far its generally longer waits into matches which also isn't great for poorly performing streamers to cheat their way through to some amount of views.

[Der Geisterbaer]

the check engine light, on 14 May 2023 - 06:46 AM, said:

poor people amirite

Actual poverty isn't even involved there because we're still talking a luxury hobby in the luxurious lives "we" as players usually enjoy but given the "potatoe pc specs" that some have mentioned in this very forum I have this strong feeling that the number of players who have truly dedicated gaming pcs (in addition to putting in all the required efforts and knowledge to keep their machines "clean" and "secure" outside of those anti-cheat engines) is not that high and I wouldn't be surprised to hear that our OP's computer is indeed used for anything from playing this game to online banking and back ~shrug~

[Haipyng]

Der Geisterbaer, on 14 May 2023 - 06:59 AM, said:

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that our OP's computer is indeed used for anything from playing this game to online banking and back ~shrug~

Your arguments all add up to one word, security. Every system is vulnerable in some way, the term used to secure them is mitigation. Nothing is perfect.

Not sure what your point above has to do with anti-cheat, except maybe to try and shame in an elitist way. If you have something to add to the actual topic, do so. Otherwise we get it. security, security, security, to which I say it works as intended for millions of other players just fine and examples of exploits are few and far between and are patched with as much regularity as any software.

Edited by Haipyng, 14 May 2023 - 10:50 AM.

[Curccu]

Haipyng, on 13 May 2023 - 06:45 AM, said:

No, I don't. It's an old ask, but with all the new Mech Packs, anything that improves the state of the game would be wonderful.

With those new mech packs... if they sell good enough. They have reason to keep servers on.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

Your arguments all add up to one word, security.

This is the kind of claim that proves that you haven't even understood "my arguments" ... and no, they do not all add up to (just) "security"

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

Every system is vulnerable in some way,

Indeed and it's up to the system owner to decide if they want to make their systems even more vunerable for the sake of "feeling calmed in their doubts". You obviously want to choose this while others don't like the idea ... which is only one of the three dilemmas I orginally presented you with concerning an anti-cheat engine in MW:O.

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

the term used to secure them is mitigation.

Oh, so you've found a rather nice word in that context. Now tell me about risk assessment (on individual level and for PGI as potential provider) and all the other strategies usually associated with that "mitigation" and then try to explain (again) how relevant and important your personal "feeling of calm about doubts" really is in the bigger picture there.

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

Nothing is perfect.

So?

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

Not sure what your point above has to do with anti-cheat, except maybe to try and shame in an elitist way.

While I'm not surprised to hear that you aren't sure about what the point in there was and then watching you go straight into the next fallacy (black and white) here's (again) some food for thought for you

Ask the people who got their systems infected with malware because of the anti-cheat engine of Genshin Impact how it affected them and how "calm" they felt due to said anti-cheat engine after their systems got compromised.

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

If you have something to add to the actual topic, do so.

I already did. I presented you three different types of dilemmas to which you responded only with regards to one side of one particular dilemma and have been engaging in fallacious to outright insulting reasoning ever since while trying to blame me for supposedly insulting you. I also tried to educate you on that ... to obviously no avail.

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

Otherwise we get it. security, security, security, to which I say it works as intended for millions of other players just fine and examples of exploits are few and far between and are patched with as much regularity as any software.

Otherwise "we" or rather "you" still don't get it but strawmans are among your "preferred" fallacies.

[Tromoskyon Rex]

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 06:19 AM, said:

So, you are one of those twits that dig into Jarl stats to dredge up K/D ratios like that is some kind of qualifier? ... I don't choose to nurse a K/D ratio and play conservatively at long range somehow means I don't get to think the game would benefit from an anti-cheat engine? You trying to shame? ..... I suppose you have one of those 1.5+ K/D? That and putting a toilet brush in your hand qualifies you to scrub toilets. You must be very proud. Congratulations! Is it real or artificially that high?

My point is that you're a mid level player trying to blame cheating for your poor performance. The fact that you think a 1.5 KD is something that needs to be 'nursed' or is even suspect of cheating is proof of my point.

Instead of trying to learn from what others are doing and trying to improve your gameplay you want to blame your stagnant and poor performance on cheating. Im not trying to 'shame' you, just making a point that you, understandably and unsurprisingly, wont accept.

[Pixel Hunter]

sycocys, on 14 May 2023 - 06:59 AM, said:

The first few matter in every pvp game.

...When you can vomit a 70+ point laser alpha or 50 points of ppfld on a specific box, especially from longer ranges and on moving targets it makes a massive difference...

...Add esp/wall hacks to that and positioning/experience/awareness/fine tuned builds matter much less. Or intentional packet dropping/swapping to muddy up the server tracking a mechs position.

exactly, well said.

[LordNothing]

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 06:33 AM, said:

People are verbalizing it way more. It is annoying. There is a report button and that is about the extent of it and it is unlikely they look at it seriously anyway unless they are getting dozens of reports. I shug it off and move on myself. I had a match where someone was ranting and accusing someone on my team of cheating earlier yesterday. It was not the first time I have heard of an anti-cheat engine being desired and I thought I would bring it up here.

im not sure if pgi has the ability to audit comms traffic. id like to think they do, but enough players have to put the flags up for them to even turn that on. its unfeasible to audit everything always, because of the storage requirements. report every instance, and let pgi determine if it was cheating. unfortunately i dont know if anyone on their side is doing that. periodic (and public) ban waves would at least show the community that something is being done.

i think pgi should really be more open about cheating. the name and shame policy can stay at least for individual reports, since an accusations without evidence can get out of hand. but its different when there is evidence and official sanctions have been levied.

Edited by LordNothing, 14 May 2023 - 09:22 PM.

[PocketYoda]

I'm not sure reporting people actually does anything?

Also there are hardware hacks these days you can actually buy stuff that runs separate to your pc that devs cannot ever stop.. And last time i linked it to prove i got banned so no way i'll do that again.

Edited by PocketYoda, 15 May 2023 - 03:59 AM.

[Haipyng]

Orion_, on 14 May 2023 - 05:21 PM, said:

My point is that you're a mid level player trying to blame cheating for your poor performance. The fact that you think a 1.5 KD is something that needs to be 'nursed' or is even suspect of cheating is proof of my point.

Instead of trying to learn from what others are doing and trying to improve your gameplay you want to blame your stagnant and poor performance on cheating. I'm not trying to 'shame' you, just making a point that you, understandably and unsurprisingly, wont accept.

You are confusing your thread whining about people crying about Hax, with this thread discussing anti-cheat engine viability for MWO. I am not complaining about cheats. If anything the complaints about them in game have gotten worse and it becomes annoying with chat roll from the opposing team and even more so when its on team voice comms. That is what started my search for them online and lead to some disturbing conclusions, they do in fact have a point.

Your contention here boils down to that cheating is not a problem and to borrow a term often repeated on here, "git gud". A moronic and completely empty assertion without anything helpful or insightful about it. Your vaunted K/D ratio as a means of measuring success means little in a team based game.

You, like many others view and play MWO as a deathmatch game where whoever gets the most kills wins. The easy ways to inflate that are play a conservative long range game, or you wait it out for the late stage game and come in all fresh to mop up the nearly finished enemy mechs. Only one of those does anything to help the team win the match and then that can gimp a team when the bulk of the team's assaults are in the back boating ranged weapons, leaving heavies and mediums alone in the skirmish line. What does it mean to land a kill in MWO most of the time? You landed the one shot that finished a mech. The team may have dealt 500 damage to that mech and your one ERLL shot did 10 and finished the mech. Big deal.

If that is your contention of success, good for you. I hope you enjoy it heartily. It shows a self centered mindset that does not improve the nature of a team based game. It also means less in a game with cheating going on as there is always doubt that it was come by honestly. That is not everyone's measure of success and you are mistaken to think it is in a team based game.

If you can come up with an actual contribution for the topic of this thread, why anti-cheat is good or bad beyond, "git gud", please enlighten us with your potent and dazzling insight. Otherwise keep the whine about crying about hax and the "you suck" and "git gud" allusions over there in your thread.

Edited by Haipyng, 15 May 2023 - 09:14 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Haipyng, on 15 May 2023 - 05:25 AM, said:

You are confusing your thread whining about people crying about Hax, with this thread discussing anti-cheat engine viability for MWO. I am not complaining about cheats. If anything the complaints about them in game have gotten worse and it becomes annoying with chat rolls from the opposing team and gets worse when its on team voice comms. That is what started my search for them online and lead to some disturbing conclusions, they do in fact have a point.

Your contention here boils down to that cheating is not a problem and to borrow a term often repeated on here, "git gud". A moronic and completely empty assertion without anything helpful or insightful about it. Your vaunted K/D ratio as a means of measuring success means little in a team based game.

You, like many others view and play MWO as a deathmatch game where whoever gets the most kills wins. The easy ways to inflate that are play a conservative long range game, or you wait it out for the late stage game and come in all fresh to mop up the nearly finished enemy mechs. Only one of those does anything to help the team win the match and then that can gimp a team when the bulk of the team's assaults are in the back boating ranged weapons, leaving heavies and mediums alone in the skirmish line. What does it mean to land a kill in MWO most of the time? You landed the one shot that finished a mech. The team may have dealt 500 damage to that mech and your one ERLL shot did 10 and finished the mech. Big deal.

If that is your contention of success, good for you. I hope you enjoy it heartily. It shows a self centered mindset that does not improve the nature of a team based game. It also means less in a game with cheating going on as there is always doubt that it was come by honestly. That is not everyone's measure of success and you are mistaken to think it is in a team based game.

If you can come up with an actual contribution for the topic of this thread, why anti-cheat is good or bad beyond, "git gud", please enlighten us with your potent and dazzling insight. Otherwise keep the whine about crying about hax and the "you suck" and "git gud" allusions over there in your thread.

some short comments:
this game is old. there's _no_ way the dev will spend money on an anti-cheat-software NOW.
there is NO point about discussing doing so. might as well discuss a new graphics-engine.
or ppc-wielding-unicorns.


onto those who "hope" that QP will one day be teamplay based and those who do their best to "solo" things;

-the "solo-ist" accepts what QP is and is NOT, and tries his best to achieve what he can; be it quick kills, mass damage - or running a funbuild. he accepts that -his- performance (see how I don't write ANYTHING about a win here) is in his hands, and that's it.

-the guy who claims to be about teammplay; he's actually not interested in teammplay, cause that's what factionplay is for. but he's not interested in that.
instead, he's dropping in QP with whatever, hoping/betting that his "team" will keep him save, while he does everything he wants, without doing anything "the team" wants.
insert your typical idf-lrmer and/or sniperlord right here.
when he wants to do his fun stuff (looking at lights, brawling, or brawling in lights for example), he does so recklessly and afterwards blames his "team" for not covering his arse.
insert your yolo-flea or brawling-atlas "I'm going in... CHAAAARGE" here.
thinking the way he does, the same mentality is used when being outplayed;
it can't be that someone is actually good at this game, it is impossible that somebody read your pattern and knows when to alpha you next and so on.. no. it's gotta be a cheater.


now, here's the fun part:
get 4 of those "evil-egomaniacs" called soloists on 1 side and chances to win improve by quite a margin.
get 4 of those "ofc I'm a teamplayer.. now get me a lock, etc" people on 1 side, and a win is hard to get.



TL/DR:
"get gud" sounds offensive. I'd agree on that and won't tell that to anybody trying his best, or being new to this game.
otoh "getting good" as in "try to better yourself" is the ONLY way to .. errr.. get better?! at this game. or almost any other for that matter.
there's a HUGE difference between "trying your best" and "meh,I'll just blame it onto others" though, and since you started in 2016, you should know that by now.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 15 May 2023 - 06:20 AM.