121 replies to this topic

[foamyesque]

Not a big fan of invasive software, myself.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

foamyesque, on 13 May 2023 - 03:29 PM, said:

Not a big fan of invasive software, myself.

I hate cheaters.

I hate things that run at kernel level without a darn good reason more. Battleye may or may not be effective but it's straight-up "punch everyone in the balls to get at a handful of bad actors" approach regardless. Same thing with invasive CPU-cycle-gobbling DRM like Denuvo.

Unfamiliar with any others beyond Steam's VAC which hasn't given me reason to be concerned (that I know of).

Edited by the check engine light, 13 May 2023 - 04:12 PM.

[crazytimes]

The official forums aren't really the place for this discussion. Many of the regular posters here have become that accustomed to these discussions being hidden that they actually believe there is no problem.

I suggest continuing the discussion elsewhere.

That said... the problem doesn't feel signifigant. Definitely not signifigant enough I would like kernel level software running to protect me from it.

[sycocys]

To answer the question of the topic - what you have to buy to get a good anti-cheat system is PGI and then allocate some funding toward it.

This game is 10 years old at this point, they didn't care about cheating until it started to affect their dream of e-sports tournaments and even then their response to it was minimal. So now being that that is all but dead combined with the fact they managed to run off a massive portion of the player base by not developing any of the modes there's exactly zero chance they'll address it.

[Tromoskyon Rex]

.8 KD posting at it again... Maybe you just need to learn the game better? We all know there are cheats out there for any game that has ever existed, even ones with anti cheat. You've been playing since launch and, at least stat wise, have never significantly gone up or down; so what makes you think there is some influx of cheaters ruining the game now?

That said, what makes you think that of the few thousand players who are still here that YOU are a victim of such constant cheating that PGI need to invest time and effort into implementing something like EAC into a 10 year old game? Do you have clips? Do you have references? Do you have names (for the subreddit or elsewhere, not on the main forum ofc)?

[Tromoskyon Rex]

Haipyng, on 13 May 2023 - 07:36 AM, said:

I truly admire skill in MWO. Its really is a thinking man's shooter, but with the influx of new names I hate wondering at these very frequent displays of super skill. Anti-cheat goes a long way to calming doubts.

Have you considered they're smurfs trying to mess with lower tiers? Takes 5 seconds for someone on JGX to decide they want to be the top KD/Kill player for the season and make an alt to farm T5 players until they have some absurd standing like 36 KD and then go back to their main.

[RockmachinE]

MWO doesn't lend itself well to cheating due to the nature of the game. It's a game where experience, mech builds, timing, positioning, movement, awareness, heat management, prioritizing components/targets and similar factors are the most important. There are no cheats for that.

Things like wallhack and autoaim will make a difference, but you will still end up getting wrecked if you don't know what you're doing in MWO.

Never in my 10 years here did I feel cheats effect the game to a noticable degree. In fact in all this time I've only a handful of times seen people cheat and it didn't help them much anyways.

[LordNothing]

i saw a guy whos ping kept alternating bertween somewhere around 80 and 800. the fact that it was a factor of 10 made me think he was using a lag switch, so i reported em. i watched his ping fluctuate throughout the match at regular intervals.

a couple more times people were reporting targets on their wallhack. another guy said "aimbots on". i reported both. its one thing when it looks like somone is cheating, its another thing when they announce it on comms.

[Haipyng]

Orion_, on 13 May 2023 - 06:07 PM, said:

.8 KD posting at it again... Maybe you just need to learn the game better? We all know there are cheats out there for any game that has ever existed, even ones with anti cheat. You've been playing since launch and, at least stat wise, have never significantly gone up or down; so what makes you think there is some influx of cheaters ruining the game now?

So, you are one of those twits that dig into Jarl stats to dredge up K/D ratios like that is some kind of qualifier? How? Because I don't choose to nurse a K/D ratio and play conservatively at long range somehow means I don't get to think the game would benefit from an anti-cheat engine? You trying to shame? Didn't work. I have grandchildren, nerve damage, like to play and experiment with many builds, and tend to play brawling builds, and invest roughly 4 hours a week into the game, none of which add up to big K/D ratios. Big deal in the scheme of things. I suppose you have one of those 1.5+ K/D? That and putting a toilet brush in your hand qualifies you to scrub toilets. You must be very proud. Congratulations! Is it real or artificially that high?

If you want to see evidence, get up off your lazy butt and Google it. Posting that stuff here is a CoC violation.

Actually bring forth an argument as to why an anti-cheat engine is a bad thing, unless you don't have an argument and are just worried it may affect your amazing K/D ratio.

Edited by Haipyng, 14 May 2023 - 10:49 AM.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

RockmachinE, on 14 May 2023 - 02:51 AM, said:

MWO doesn't lend itself well to cheating due to the nature of the game. It's a game where experience, mech builds, timing, positioning, movement, awareness, heat management, prioritizing components/targets and similar factors are the most important. There are no cheats for that.

Things like wallhack and autoaim will make a difference, but you will still end up getting wrecked if you don't know what you're doing in MWO.

Never in my 10 years here did I feel cheats effect the game to a noticable degree. In fact in all this time I've only a handful of times seen people cheat and it didn't help them much anyways.

So cheaters are particularly punitive to a section of the playerbase you don't give a **** about anyway is what you're saying, and therefore not really a problem

Assume that most if not all bad actors are using throwaways because doing what they do already indicates low desire to invest in the game and other players to begin with. From there you can extrapolate that they necessarily won't be invested enough to care how high they rise or if they get obliterated by actual skilled play. There are plenty of low skill players to victimize in the meantime. They don't care if they're taking comp player scalps or anything, they just want to mess with people and there's more at the bottom than the top anyway. Moreover they likely intuit that most of those genuinely good players will laugh off low skill players crying hax for any number of reasons, I would wager, and have no doubt observed that in the past so much as suggesting their presence was even a thing would get you shitcanned (this would of course be conducive to their ends in every fashion).

Edited by the check engine light, 14 May 2023 - 06:37 AM.

[Haipyng]

LordNothing, on 14 May 2023 - 03:27 AM, said:

i saw a guy whos ping kept alternating bertween somewhere around 80 and 800. the fact that it was a factor of 10 made me think he was using a lag switch, so i reported em. i watched his ping fluctuate throughout the match at regular intervals.

a couple more times people were reporting targets on their wallhack. another guy said "aimbots on". i reported both. its one thing when it looks like someone is cheating, its another thing when they announce it on comms.

People are verbalizing it way more. It is annoying. There is a report button and that is about the extent of it and it is unlikely they look at it seriously anyway unless they are getting dozens of reports. I shug it off and move on myself. I had a match where someone was ranting and accusing someone on my team of cheating earlier yesterday. It was not the first time I have heard of an anti-cheat engine being desired and I thought I would bring it up here.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Haipyng, on 13 May 2023 - 01:49 PM, said:

If you are not going to listen

Considering that you chose to outright "ignore" pretty much everything I told you, it's not me who doesn't "listen".

Haipyng, on 13 May 2023 - 01:49 PM, said:

and dismiss any counter, don't ask.

The thing is: You didn't actually provide a "counter" to anything regarding my original response. As for me "asking" something there: I clearly didn't ask an actual question that required a further answer

Haipyng, on 13 May 2023 - 01:49 PM, said:

There are hundreds of thousands of players using games with anti cheat and they run just fine.

And it's their prerogative to make the necessary decisions to do so while deliberately ignoring the fact that they are indeed sacrificing their system security (which wouldn't be much of a topic if people actually had truly dedicated gaming machines with no personal data whatsoever) and their beloved games still seeing more than enough cheaters.

As for having hundreds of thousands of players running anti-cheat engines without problems?! Well, in your preferred world of "calmed doubts" those players that do have issues when running anti-cheat engines are very obviously just "colateral damage" that you personally are more than just fine accepting.

Haipyng, on 13 May 2023 - 01:49 PM, said:

If they, didn't we wouldn't have anti cheat engines.

Another non-sequitur.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

Der Geisterbaer, on 14 May 2023 - 06:35 AM, said:

(which wouldn't be much of a topic if people actually had truly dedicated gaming machines with no personal data whatsoever)
.

poor people amirite

[sycocys]

RockmachinE, on 14 May 2023 - 02:51 AM, said:

It's a game where experience, mech builds, timing, positioning, movement, awareness, heat management, prioritizing components/targets and similar factors are the most important.

The first few matter in every pvp game.

The last few are exactly why people can and do use cheats. When you can vomit a 70+ point laser alpha or 50 points of ppfld on a specific box, especially from longer ranges and on moving targets it makes a massive difference - when coupled with the longer range push that's been going on over time (and in drop cycles) heat management doesn't matter all that much.

Add esp/wall hacks to that and positioning/experience/awareness/fine tuned builds matter much less. Or intentional packet dropping/swapping to muddy up the server tracking a mechs position.

Just saying there could be a reason why some of those top sniper players perform so well with their shooting, and get absolutely wrecked by people dumb firing lrms at them.

To think that people aren't cheating is just silly, the game has no mechanic to counter or detect it other than manual spectating and the core cheat engines for the game engine have been around for longer than the game. Is it massive like some of the more popular games? No, but that's because this game just isn't particularly popular and the player count has been driven down so far its generally longer waits into matches which also isn't great for poorly performing streamers to cheat their way through to some amount of views.

[Der Geisterbaer]

the check engine light, on 14 May 2023 - 06:46 AM, said:

poor people amirite

Actual poverty isn't even involved there because we're still talking a luxury hobby in the luxurious lives "we" as players usually enjoy but given the "potatoe pc specs" that some have mentioned in this very forum I have this strong feeling that the number of players who have truly dedicated gaming pcs (in addition to putting in all the required efforts and knowledge to keep their machines "clean" and "secure" outside of those anti-cheat engines) is not that high and I wouldn't be surprised to hear that our OP's computer is indeed used for anything from playing this game to online banking and back ~shrug~

[Mechwarrior2342356]

Der Geisterbaer, on 14 May 2023 - 06:59 AM, said:

Actual poverty isn't even involved there because we're still talking a luxury hobby in the luxurious lives "we" as players usually enjoy but given the "potatoe pc specs" that some have mentioned in this very forum I have this strong feeling that the number of players who have truly dedicated gaming pcs (in addition to putting in all the required efforts and knowledge to keep their machines "clean" and "secure" outside of those anti-cheat engines) is not that high and I wouldn't be surprised to hear that our OP's computer is indeed used for anything from playing this game to online banking and back ~shrug~

relative privation is a very good argument indeed

[Haipyng]

Der Geisterbaer, on 14 May 2023 - 06:59 AM, said:

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that our OP's computer is indeed used for anything from playing this game to online banking and back ~shrug~

Your arguments all add up to one word, security. Every system is vulnerable in some way, the term used to secure them is mitigation. Nothing is perfect.

Not sure what your point above has to do with anti-cheat, except maybe to try and shame in an elitist way. If you have something to add to the actual topic, do so. Otherwise we get it. security, security, security, to which I say it works as intended for millions of other players just fine and examples of exploits are few and far between and are patched with as much regularity as any software.

Edited by Haipyng, 14 May 2023 - 10:50 AM.

[Curccu]

Haipyng, on 13 May 2023 - 06:45 AM, said:

No, I don't. It's an old ask, but with all the new Mech Packs, anything that improves the state of the game would be wonderful.

With those new mech packs... if they sell good enough. They have reason to keep servers on.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

Your arguments all add up to one word, security.

This is the kind of claim that proves that you haven't even understood "my arguments" ... and no, they do not all add up to (just) "security"

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

Every system is vulnerable in some way,

Indeed and it's up to the system owner to decide if they want to make their systems even more vunerable for the sake of "feeling calmed in their doubts". You obviously want to choose this while others don't like the idea ... which is only one of the three dilemmas I orginally presented you with concerning an anti-cheat engine in MW:O.

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

the term used to secure them is mitigation.

Oh, so you've found a rather nice word in that context. Now tell me about risk assessment (on individual level and for PGI as potential provider) and all the other strategies usually associated with that "mitigation" and then try to explain (again) how relevant and important your personal "feeling of calm about doubts" really is in the bigger picture there.

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

Nothing is perfect.

So?

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

Not sure what your point above has to do with anti-cheat, except maybe to try and shame in an elitist way.

While I'm not surprised to hear that you aren't sure about what the point in there was and then watching you go straight into the next fallacy (black and white) here's (again) some food for thought for you

Ask the people who got their systems infected with malware because of the anti-cheat engine of Genshin Impact how it affected them and how "calm" they felt due to said anti-cheat engine after their systems got compromised.

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

If you have something to add to the actual topic, do so.

I already did. I presented you three different types of dilemmas to which you responded only with regards to one side of one particular dilemma and have been engaging in fallacious to outright insulting reasoning ever since while trying to blame me for supposedly insulting you. I also tried to educate you on that ... to obviously no avail.

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

Otherwise we get it. security, security, security, to which I say it works as intended for millions of other players just fine and examples of exploits are few and far between and are patched with as much regularity as any software.

Otherwise "we" or rather "you" still don't get it but strawmans are among your "preferred" fallacies.

[Tromoskyon Rex]

Haipyng, on 14 May 2023 - 06:19 AM, said:

So, you are one of those twits that dig into Jarl stats to dredge up K/D ratios like that is some kind of qualifier? ... I don't choose to nurse a K/D ratio and play conservatively at long range somehow means I don't get to think the game would benefit from an anti-cheat engine? You trying to shame? ..... I suppose you have one of those 1.5+ K/D? That and putting a toilet brush in your hand qualifies you to scrub toilets. You must be very proud. Congratulations! Is it real or artificially that high?

My point is that you're a mid level player trying to blame cheating for your poor performance. The fact that you think a 1.5 KD is something that needs to be 'nursed' or is even suspect of cheating is proof of my point.

Instead of trying to learn from what others are doing and trying to improve your gameplay you want to blame your stagnant and poor performance on cheating. Im not trying to 'shame' you, just making a point that you, understandably and unsurprisingly, wont accept.