121 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

with the way some of the players aim, maybe pgi would be better off including their own aim bot, for players in lower tiers. better that than running software that can back door their system, steal your personal data, wipe your drives remotely, hack the firmware so they never work again and charge you a subscription for their trouble. cheaters are pretty much installing a rootkit.

Edited by LordNothing, 01 August 2023 - 01:18 PM.

[Ihlrath]

LordNothing, on 01 August 2023 - 01:08 PM, said:

with the way some of the players aim, maybe pgi would be better off including their own aim bot, for players in lower tiers. better that than running software that can back door their system, steal your personal data, wipe your drives remotely, hack the firmware so they never work again and charge you a subscription for their trouble. cheaters are pretty much installing a rootkit.

Well, someone that cheats is a craptastic person on a general level so I'm not upset they're stupid enough to download that crap. Hopefully if it trashes their systems they'll learn a lesson... buuuuut we circle back to the stupid part and well... probably not.

[Tromoskyon Rex]

Had a funny moment thinking about this thread the other day. Gundam Battle Operation 2, a game with EAC, has people using bosses from PVE game modes in PVP, unlimited ammo, no cooldown, and invincibility. The game has barely been on PC 2 months and all of that was in the game within the first 2 weeks.

Still think it would be great if there was an AC in the game, but thought it was funny how fast that happened.

[Star Lit Night]

LordNothing, on 01 August 2023 - 01:08 PM, said:

with the way some of the players aim, maybe pgi would be better off including their own aim bot, for players in lower tiers. better that than running software that can back door their system, steal your personal data, wipe your drives remotely, hack the firmware so they never work again and charge you a subscription for their trouble. cheaters are pretty much installing a rootkit.

I'd rather let cheaters cheat than install malware.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

Razgriz_, on 02 August 2023 - 02:06 AM, said:

Had a funny moment thinking about this thread the other day. Gundam Battle Operation 2, a game with EAC, has people using bosses from PVE game modes in PVP, unlimited ammo, no cooldown, and invincibility. The game has barely been on PC 2 months and all of that was in the game within the first 2 weeks.

Still think it would be great if there was an AC in the game, but thought it was funny how fast that happened.

AC is always kind of a red queen race, though jeez.

The theoretical best way to handle cheating is to go after the psychology of cheaters, but that requires a lot more in practice.

Edited by the check engine light, 02 August 2023 - 05:18 PM.

[LordNothing]

Star Lit Night, on 02 August 2023 - 05:10 PM, said:

I'd rather let cheaters cheat than install malware.

i watched a gamedev conference on the subject and it turns out that most of the people using cheat software are either super-casuals, people playing with controllers or joysticks at a disadvantage to mouse users, or sometimes people with disabilities. mw5 comes stock with an aimbot, and a lot of other games are also including one.

i think by not having one, you shut out a lot of players who are unable to enjoy the game. especially when you have a lot of e-sports skill warriors who insist that everyone play at their level. obviously you dont want to lose that demographic, since its one of the few we have. cant have a game without players. but if you have an aimbot available to players in t4,5, you protect the skill game at higher tiers, while opening the game to a more general audience.

id also have the aimbot have a slower tracking and narrower track radius in t4 than it does in t5, and you would have it on a toggle or push to use, so that they have the option to aim manually. ultimately if you bubble up to t3, you cant use it anymore, so it helps to wean players off of it as their skill progresses.

anyway think of it as an accessibility feature.

Edited by LordNothing, 02 August 2023 - 05:52 PM.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

LordNothing, on 02 August 2023 - 05:46 PM, said:

i watched a gamedev conference on the subject and it turns out that most of the people using cheat software are either super-casuals, people playing with controllers or joysticks at a disadvantage to mouse users, or sometimes people with disabilities. mw5 comes stock with an aimbot, and a lot of other games are also including one.

i think by not having one, you shut out a lot of players who are unable to enjoy the game. especially when you have a lot of e-sports skill warriors who insist that everyone play at their level. obviously you dont want to lose that demographic, since its one of the few we have. cant have a game without players. but if you have an aimbot available to players in t4,5, you protect the skill game at higher tiers, while opening the game to a more general audience.

id also have the aimbot have a slower tracking and narrower track radius in t4 than it does in t5, and you would have it on a toggle or push to use, so that they have the option to aim manually. ultimately if you bubble up to t3, you cant use it anymore, so it helps to wean players off of it as their skill progresses.

dude there are entire groups of players in MWO who legit want to drive out anyone under 95 percentile you think this is going to find purchase

[LordNothing]

the check engine light, on 02 August 2023 - 05:50 PM, said:

dude there are entire groups of players in MWO who legit want to drive out anyone under 95 percentile you think this is going to find purchase

and i very much doubt any of them are in t4. this will not even effect them. they can outshoot any aimbot in existance, and they can make snap judgements on where to shoot. its not even in the same ballpark. remember these are the same people who want to see all guided weapons removed from the game. being part of the game you can switch it off in comp modes and maybe fp.

if you bring in casual players there is a chance that some of them will get gud, bubble up out of t4 and join the skillwarrior crowd, but you will need to consign hordes to t5 just to find them. if it brings players to the game that is a good thing. more players enables more modes, enables more funding, enables better match making. if the bad side of that is that some t5 gets slightly higher scores, then who cares?

Edited by LordNothing, 02 August 2023 - 06:02 PM.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

LordNothing, on 02 August 2023 - 05:53 PM, said:

and i very much doubt any of them are in t4. this will not even effect them.

They. Don't. Care.

I am not kidding. This is THEIR game how dare you show up. We're not talking "I don't want to see them in matches", we're talking hard ******* gatekeeping.

Edited by the check engine light, 02 August 2023 - 05:58 PM.

[LordNothing]

the check engine light, on 02 August 2023 - 05:56 PM, said:

They. Don't. Care.

I am not kidding. This is THEIR game how dare you show up. We're not talking "I don't want to see them in matches", we're talking hard ******* gatekeeping.

i cant imagine that they are a huge source of funding. pgi is going to go where the money is.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

LordNothing, on 02 August 2023 - 06:06 PM, said:

i cant imagine that they are a huge source of funding. pgi is going to go where the money is.

Can only hope you're right, they certainly seem headed that way (possibly in the wrong manner). They've done plenty of self sabotage in the past.

Edited by the check engine light, 02 August 2023 - 06:30 PM.

[Leadpaintchips]

Razgriz_, on 02 August 2023 - 02:06 AM, said:

Had a funny moment thinking about this thread the other day. Gundam Battle Operation 2, a game with EAC, has people using bosses from PVE game modes in PVP, unlimited ammo, no cooldown, and invincibility. The game has barely been on PC 2 months and all of that was in the game within the first 2 weeks.

Still think it would be great if there was an AC in the game, but thought it was funny how fast that happened.

TBH that's the MO for every game that I've played that uses EAC. The running joke is that the name isn't on the difficulty to implement it, it's a comment on how difficult it is to bypass. It's a bad anti-cheat program that raises more false positives then catches blatant abusers.

[LordNothing]

false positives are the worst. there are still entire game companies i refuse to touch because they refuse to reverse false bans and undelete characters. hey if im gonna play a game that feels like a job, i need assurances that my stuff is going to be there next time i play.

[Ignatius Audene]

I am usually not the biggest Phi defender, but U compare mwo with modern shooters in modern engines (and even then I doubt that it would be an good investment on that low player base).

Mwo engine is hardcore Frankenstein crytek and everytime faction play runs out of conflict someone on Phi needs to sacrifice and virgin to start the que again. There are no cheap standardised implementations in this game.

In general with anti cheat its go big or go home. EAC etc. prevents nothing. U need to invest big money ������ to keep this remotely under control. And sure we can't quantify the numbers, but simply bye playing one hour of tarkov and then mwo, u will realise we are talking at an level where the benefits (some "trust" and a couple of banned accounts (f2p...) Are simply not worth -> investment, false positives, moderation of false positive, invasive software...).

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 09 August 2023 - 11:19 PM.

[Elizander]

Just to add to this topic, a lot of anti-cheat software that is third party can usually be spoofed or bypassed in some way if the hackers are determined enough. It might make you feel better, but I don't think any off-the-shelf solution will entirely get rid of hacks. I'm not saying to let hackers do whatever they want, but don't expect just any old anti-cheat to block things entirely unless it's super intrusive to your system and maybe makes the game launch a few minutes slower as it does a server-side hash verification on every vital MWO game file before allowing you to connect.

[Haipyng]

I would think Anti-Cheat on MWO would be far more effective just because the lower base. Folks selling hacks go for very popular games, that sell lots of copies not games with a low population. Why write code for a low-population game that the publisher can detect and ban requiring a rewrite? That is a lot of work for low return.

I wouldn't much care what AC system is being used, as long as it just cut down on it happening and boosted the integrity of the game.

[Bowelhacker]

My only advice for anyone looking to engage in some haxxx is to make sure you spend up in the PGI store on mech packs and such, then you'll be immune to punishment if caught.

[Ignatius Audene]

Bowelhacker, on 10 August 2023 - 10:45 PM, said:

My only advice for anyone looking to engage in some haxxx is to make sure you spend up in the PGI store on mech packs and such, then you'll be immune to punishment if caught.

Big claims here. Sure u have plenty of info to support this. Not? Then let's continue with the topic.

[foamyesque]

Bowelhacker, on 10 August 2023 - 10:45 PM, said:

My only advice for anyone looking to engage in some haxxx is to make sure you spend up in the PGI store on mech packs and such, then you'll be immune to punishment if caught.

Why would PGI care? They already have your money.

[Rain Dark Sky]

I've literally never seen anything in this game to make me think anyone was cheating.

Frankly I think some people are just angry they got pwned.